58 Sedan Bridge Official Thread

[cod]

Have any of you installed an inverter to run the fridges and freezer's and other light 110v loads? We're on our fifth straight day on a mooring, and today is the first day it hasn't been super hot so first time we could even think of turning off the generator, but that means no fridge/freezer. I'm sure they would be fine for a couple of hours if we don't open them, but not really practical except at night, and at night we would need fans for sure to get air circulation.

I'm not even sure where we could fit one, nevermind figuring out how to get enough battery capacity to run it for any length of time.

I installed a Xantrex 3000 Watt inverter/Charger with (4) 6 volt LifeLine batteries wired in series to create 24volts. The batteries also serve the bow thruster which replaced the (2) 12 volt batteries that were wired for 24 volts. I was able to locate the batteries in front of the engines. The inverter is located in the basement for the washer/dryer on the 50-52’ Sedan Bridge.
The inverter powers the entire 120 volt side of the main distribution panel and I get between 14-17 hours with the inverter depending on the load. Only down side for us is in Florida we need AC most of the time so we still need the genny for that.

 

[ranger58sb]

@swaterhouse @ranger58sb If you give me your loads that you want the inverter to carry I'll be happy to run the numbers for both batteries and inverter sizing for you. I'll need the amps or watts each device draws and their duty cycle. Duty cycle is how long each is running in a 10 hour sleep period. For example your freezer will cycle on six times for twenty minutes each in ten hours and/or the coffee pot will be on two hours in the 10 hour period. The freezer then has a 20% duty cycle and coffee pot also has a 20% duty cycle....

Thanks! I'd like to take you up on that! It'll take me a bit to gather that, though, mostly 'cause I'm distracted with fixing other stuff just now

-Chris

 

[ranger58sb]

I installed a Xantrex 3000 Watt inverter/Charger with (4) 6 volt LifeLine batteries wired in series to create 24volts. The batteries also serve the bow thruster which replaced the (2) 12 volt batteries that were wired for 24 volts. I was able to locate the batteries in front of the engines. The inverter is located in the basement for the washer/dryer on the 50-52’ Sedan Bridge.

Good. I'd been thinking our bow thruster bank could be dual-use, given it'd usually only be used for one thing at a time.

Locating the inverter, close enough to it's battery bank and ideally not in the engine room, would likely be a bigger problem. Moving the BT batteries could well be part of our solution.

Anyway, thanks for posting!

-Chris

 

[ocgrant]

I installed a Xantrex 3000 Watt inverter/Charger with (4) 6 volt LifeLine batteries wired in series to create 24volts. The batteries also serve the bow thruster which replaced the (2) 12 volt batteries that were wired for 24 volts. I was able to locate the batteries in front of the engines. The inverter is located in the basement for the washer/dryer on the 50-52’ Sedan Bridge.
The inverter powers the entire 120 volt side of the main distribution panel and I get between 14-17 hours with the inverter depending on the load. Only down side for us is in Florida we need AC most of the time so we still need the genny for that.
View attachment 111255 View attachment 111256 View attachment 111257

Nice install... Do you have it programmed to turn on your geny if it dips too low? My buddy did that on his Merdian and I thought that was so cool. I used to have one on my Pricesss and I do miss it. I would like one on my 48 but space and weight concerns have prevented me from doing it. I had 6 - 6volt batteries in my bank and it lasted all day running the ice maker and various other small 110v accessories. I am interested to know how your 4 bank does for you. What are you running while using it?

 

[carterchapman]

Has anyone added a fifth cleat midships slightly aft? Saw a 58 today that had one, and he said it was an easy install behind the sofas with a backing plate. The 500/52DBs have one there, and I always wondered why they left it off of the 58DBs. I can't seem to source one on the internet, so I'll try @fwebster 's parts guy at PCB.

From my Parts Manual: 1463496 CLEAT, 12" SEA RAY BOLLARD SS

 

[swaterhouse]

Has anyone added a fifth cleat midships slightly aft? Saw a 58 today that had one, and he said it was an easy install behind the sofas with a backing plate. The 500/52DBs have one there, and I always wondered why they left it off of the 58DBs. I can't seem to source one on the internet, so I'll try @fwebster 's parts guy at PCB.

From my Parts Manual: 1463496 CLEAT, 12" SEA RAY BOLLARD SS

I have seen this on a couple of boats that were listed for sale. Yes, there is good access, basically above the master A/C condenser on port, and above Bose on Stbd. They would go just aft of where the deck flattens out. I found an ebay site that had them, I don't think flounder pounder had them.

I may install a set this winter, but my work list grows every outing. I am okay on my home dock without them, but we have been to two transient slips they would have been nice to have.

 

[carterchapman]

I’m with you on your lat paragraph remarks!

 

[cod]

Nice install... Do you have it programmed to turn on your geny if it dips too low? My buddy did that on his Merdian and I thought that was so cool. I used to have one on my Pricesss and I do miss it. I would like one on my 48 but space and weight concerns have prevented me from doing it. I had 6 - 6volt batteries in my bank and it lasted all day running the ice maker and various other small 110v accessories. I am interested to know how your 4 bank does for you. What are you running while using it?

I did not install the genny auto start but looked into it briefly. I decided to wait to see how the inverter worked for me and for how long. I find it isn’t something I need as I easily go thru the night or throughout the day with the inverter. I run the entire 120 volt system which includes the galley refrig. and freezer, the cockpit ice maker , bridge refrigerator, microwave, coffee maker, Davit (added bonus as you don’t need the genny to raise or lower dinghy and acts as a back up system as well should genny shut down) all 120 volt outlets, Tv’s and anything else on the 120 volt distribution panel. As mentioned, I can go between 14-17 hours on a single charge. The other added bonus of the inverter is when your in the Bahamas, you can manage your electric by switching over to the inverter and only use the shore power for the air conditioners which are 240 volt. Just need to switch to shore power for a couple hours to charge the battery bank and then back to inverter mode. As you know, electric in the Bahamas is not cheap!

 

[ranger58sb]

Ref posts about inverters... Coincidentally, on another forum, a member there said he used one of these:

https://www.hysolis.com/product-page/mps3k-power-station-3-kw-4-5-kwh

At quick glance, it looks like a self-contained inverter with on-board lithium battery... and presumably recharges itself when shorepower/generator power is available. (perhaps depending on installation). First guess, if all inclusive, maybe it could tentatively be installed just underneath/near our AC/DC electrical panel.

(His boat didn't have an isolation transformer, so he used it by hardwiring a shorepower cord to the unit, and then just plugging that into his shorepower inlet.)

Anyway, I haven't reviewed this closely yet... but it does look like a (not inexpensive) easy solution to inverter and battery locations.

I think he said his cost was under $3K all in, so at least less than the MSRP as shown.

-Chris

 

[ranger58sb]

No dock pressure over-ride in the freshwater system?

Just today I happened to be able to notice our freshwater pump began running -- on demand -- even though we were hooked up to dock water. I usually turn off the freshwater pump breaker when connected to dock water, but just hadn't gotten to that step yet this morning when I discovered the potential issue.

Along our "delivery" trip, we ran out of boat water one day... which seemed a bit strange, since we started with full tanks and we'd been hooking up to shore water at every stop. Now I'm assuming that was because we were actually using boat water more often than we thought.

The earlier freshwater pump crapped out on the trip, too, and we replaced it en route... so I'm assuming (for now) that the new pump is acting like it should.

Haven't had a boat before where demand would cause the freshwater pump to run if dockside pressure existed, hence my surprise.

Or... maybe it's about a difference in dockside versus boat pump pressure? Low dockside pressure maybe means the 55 PSI freshwater pump fills in? We've been in a few places where dockside pressure wasn't stellar... and I wouldn't be surprised if our new home dock isn't delivering 55 PSI.

Thoughts?

-Chris

I'm still trying to sort out water issues.

First, I haven't been able to trace how city water (dock water) reaches the distribution manifold. The manifold only has one cold "innie" and it comes direct from our fresh water pump, which in turn appears (per Parts Manual) to be fed only by the onboard fresh water tanks. Should this suggest that city water is actually going straight to the tanks, then to/through the pump?

Second, I need to replace the onboard whole-house filter, and while I'm well versed in doing that (we have similar systems at home) I haven't been able to positively ID the O-rings I'll need to reseal the system. The Parts Manual says it's a Shurflo filter system; what I find by searching online is a Waterguard RV-10UC-A filter system, with a 5-micron filter #15502-43 (1GPM @ 60PSI) and O-rings #9417809. Our filter housing isn't marked, that I can see underneath the bracket, except for the letters "WC8" (or maybe "WG8") -- which hasn't led me anywhere. The Waterguard 5-micron/1GPM rating doesn't seem appropriate for a whole house filter element. (OTOH, our dock water pressure sucks, so it could be there really is a very restrictive filter element in place.)

Can anyone point me in the right direction on these two issues?

-Chris

 

[tc410]

I can help with the shore-water connection. When you connect your shoreside hose in the aft locker, that connection is “spliced” into the aft locker spigot. The shore water is actually back fed from that line all the way forward to the manifold under the guest stateroom floor. To prove this, connect to shore water, turn off the onboard water pump, and then use the key wrench to turn off the valve labeled for the aft locker wash down (I forget the exact label on that valve). When you shut that valve off on the manifold, the entire system will not have water.

As for the onboard filter, I narrowed down the filter part number and ordered several on amazon at one time. This was several years ago and I still have a few filters left. I don’t know about the o-ring. I’ve never changed that. Just clean and inspect, put it back together and it’s been fine. If yours is damaged, take it to a local hardware store to find a match.

 

[ranger58sb]

Thanks, that back-feeding thing would have taken me quite a while to find! Couldn't prove it works that way, but it seems semi-logical. Apparently our "Rope Locker" valve on the manifold doesn't actually work, though, since it wouldn't shut off either city water or tank water to the rope locker.

That routing speaks to the filter issue, too. It should mean city water isn't being pushed through the filter, which in turn means our underwhelming city water pressure is just a factor of dock supply and/or maybe we still have some residual mineral build-up in the faucets/showers that I haven't completely discovered yet. Our galley sink is worst; I've opened up the pull-out spray head and cleaned it out, but pressure there really sucks.

FWIW, I prefer to have the correct O-rings on hand prior to starting, if I can. I have to change whole-house filters at home approx every 2-3 months, and the O-rings usually only last through 3 changes each. After that, they just won't seal the system. Here on the boat, unless the main inlets on the water manifold act as one-way check valves... (any ideas about that?)... opening the filter could mean a dead boat during the time it takes to find a local store that happens to have the right size O-ring. Don't want to go there if I can help it...

-Chris

 

[swaterhouse]

Dockwater is teed in as described above, you can see it if you look up from bilge, in aft stbd corner of the aft locker.

I have some spare rings from my PO, I will look to see how they are marked.

My home o-rings I use Vaseline to lubricate after cleaning with a damp and then dry paper towels.

I follow a routine my water treatment guy suggested at home. I have two sets of o-rings, one installed, and one that I clean, lubricate and store in a ziplock until the next change. Rotate every change. It helps the oring return to it's normal shape and they last a very long time.

 

[ranger58sb]

Apparently our "Rope Locker" valve on the manifold doesn't actually work, though, since it wouldn't shut off either city water or tank water to the rope locker.

I should have added: Unless there's something that I don't understand about the way these valves work. Looks to me like simple 90-degree ON/OFF ball or gate valves?

-Chris

 

[tc410]

@ranger58sb - it’s not going to be the rope locker valve - that’s the spigot up under your windlass. It may be called cockpit shower or something like that. If I get down to the boat in the next few hours I’ll get the exact info for you.

Furthermore, the shore-side water pressure, it’s always been inferior compared to the onboard pump. The connector in the aft locker is actually a pressure regulator with the purpose of preventing too much shore pressure causing the onboard water connectors from blowing apart and then sinking the boat.

 

[bmac]

Home Depot carries replacement O-rings for the water filters.

 

[ranger58sb]

@ranger58sb - it’s not going to be the rope locker valve - that’s the spigot up under your windlass. It may be called cockpit shower or something like that. If I get down to the boat in the next few hours I’ll get the exact info for you.

Furthermore, the shore-side water pressure, it’s always been inferior compared to the onboard pump. The connector in the aft locker is actually a pressure regulator with the purpose of preventing too much shore pressure causing the onboard water connectors from blowing apart and then sinking the boat.

Ah! Yes, there's a Transom Shower valve for cold water. I never thought of "rope locker" and bow in the same sentence, thanks. That likely clarifies why my "valve tests" didn't do squat! Not to worry, I can re-trace that to confirm.

Given the freshwater pump is rated for 55 PSI, I'd guess the inlet pressure regulator is less than that? Maybe 45 PSI? I don't see the pressure limit identified in either the Owners or the Parts Manuals. (No matter what, our new marina doesn't have really great water pressure, could well be be below the regulator limit.)

I've seen about 4-5 different O-ring sizes ostensibly for filter housings roughly this size... that are almost identical... but sometimes, with some housings, only one of those will work. I actually have a stock-pile of likely O-ring candidates, I think only two different sizes (from memory, which is shakey), because we've used filters housing like this -- with a carbon block filter (.5 micron) -- for filling our previous water tanks too. That was a bit of overkill, but helped in lieu of having a separate drinking water faucet. Not too dissimilar from using a Pur/Brita filter pitcher...

(I haven't ever had much luck with O-rings reforming themselves back to usable condition. Nifty when it works, I guess...)

I expect now that I have a few days to be off the boat, I can bite the bullet and just take the filter housing apart... go from there... see if my O-ring stash will already solve it. Less important anyway (for a while) since I was first focused on city water pressure, or lack there of. Thinking city water went through that filter led me to think a quick filter change, and maybe a less dense filter, could be useful. Now that I know for sure that inbound city water bypasses that filter... and can get a round tuit at a more leisurely pace.

I've taken the screen/filter out of the galley faucet -- at the sprayer attachment end -- and cleaned that... Is there also a screen/filter somewhere earlier on in that connection? Somewhere down under the galley sink? Or...? The galley sink is where we have the least water flow with city water only... just slightly more than dribble...

-Chris

 

[carterchapman]

We don't use the city water hookup on Reward because we want to "cycle" water though the FW tank to keep it fresh. We make ice with it and drink it and have no problems. We do use a "pre-filter" on the hose before we fill the tank, and then change our permanent filter every spring. "No dysentery yet", so I guess our program works...

 

[tc410]

We don't use the city water hookup on Reward because we want to "cycle" water though the FW tank to keep it fresh. We make ice with it and drink it and have no problems. We do use a "pre-filter" on the hose before we fill the tank, and then change our permanent filter every spring. "No dysentery yet", so I guess our program works...

We mainly use ships water at our permanent seasonal slip - the tank is super easy to refill, and as we know, the pressure is better. When we’re traveling, I tend to use the shore water 99% of the time due to more inconvenient refills, doing more laundry, and the notion of taking on water in my tank from a questionable marina source.

 

[ranger58sb]

We don't use the city water hookup on Reward because we want to "cycle" water though the FW tank to keep it fresh. We make ice with it and drink it and have no problems. We do use a "pre-filter" on the hose before we fill the tank, and then change our permanent filter every spring. "No dysentery yet", so I guess our program works...

That's actually what we've always done before, too. Although we also had 60 gallons more in the tanks on the previous boat so refilling didn't have to happen so often.

We did some serious pre-filtration, first a dual-gradient 25/1 micron sediment filter (same as we have to use at our house) followed by a .5 micron carbon block in line. I reckon we'll gravitate back to that regime pretty soon, as soon as I get my second filter housing delivered (I let the earlier housings along with the previous boat) if not before. I guess that'll probably make the single installed filter on this boat almost irrelevant, since it doesn't treat city water. In my experience, "city water" isn't always all that great... so I'll probably want to keep using an external pre-filter on that too, back in the "garage" just before the inlet.

-Chris