52DB Cummins or MAN?

[bmac]

For those of you with a 2005 or newer 50' or bigger Sea Ray that had the MAN engines as an option, or for those of you with an informed opinion, what is the better all around engine for a 52DB, the Cummins QSM 11 or the MAN? Durability, economy, maintainability? There doesn't appear to be any premium assigned to the MAN (even though it was a $50k option when new) in the used boat market so cost isn't a consideration. Thanks for your thoughts. Oh, btw, there are two MAN service centers and a few Cummins service centers within 50 miles of me so getting service won't be an issue.

 

[wetpaint]

Congratulations on your Christmas Gift to yourself!!! As for your question, the only question with the MAN's are expensive to repair and sometimes tougher to get parts.......You said service would not be a problem......When I talk to big sportfish guys, they tend to side on MAN's, but I I have no first hand knowledge........Up front they do cost more as they seem to be more of a "cook to order" company versus "fast food company"........Thats where the price increase comes from, I think......In a 2005 year or newer, I really don't think you can go wrong.

 

[HUMPH]

Same thing I have heard about the MANs. Expensive to repair but strong engines. Much of the problem is usually finding a mechanic so you have 1/2 of that problem solved. I would purchase an extended warranty to cover anything major in the next few years.

Good Luck!

 

[bmac]

I'm not convinced I'm going to move up again...at least not while i still have 2 kids in college (3 down, 1 1/2 to go) but I am at least starting the process and I am 3 for 3 in finishing the process with a bigger boat, though this time will definitely be used. I'm pretty happy with everyhting about the Cummins experience so far but I've read enough QSM 11 travails to wonder how the MAN's would compare. I'd love to hear from some of the MAN owners as well as the diesel experts on here.

 

[Carver370]

I have heard some pretty expensive regular scheduled maintenance is in order on the MANs when I was doing my research on a 480 DB with the MANs in it.

 

[NCBoater]

Join boat diesel.com. This site will inform you about qsm11's and Mans. I have the qsm11's and I am pleased. Most believe 's they are excellent engines.

 

[bmac]

Join boat diesel.com. This site will inform you about qsm11's and Mans. I have the qsm11's and I am pleased. Most believe 's they are excellent engines.

NCB

What kind of cruise rpm's, speed and fuel consumption have you experienced? Any idea what your WOT numbers rpm's, speed and fuel consumption are? I've noticed most 52DB's had spare props as original equipment, much more so than the 44DB; any praticular reason for this? Thanks.

 

[Big Daddy II]

My 2004 48DB with the Cunmmins cruises best at 2000 RPM burning 45-46 gph at 31.3 mph. WOT 37 mph. Its alot of fuel but I don't think there is another boat of this size thats more efficient at this speed.

 

[NCBoater]

My 52DB burns 20 gpm per engine at 2000 rpm speed is 25 mph. I am underpropped a little for longevity. Max rpm is 2350, speed is 34 mph. Making a run from north Carolina to Palm beach next week. Cummins has an engine prop curve chart for the QSM. Overload the engine and they will not warrant you. Spare props are a searay option, most 52's come with that option as SR tends to load these boats with options. In my view spare props are a necessity.

 

[fwebster]

There is a reason that the builders of serious offshore boats, Cabo, Hatteras, Marlow, and multi mil $ sportfishermen use MAN, Caterpillar or MTU engines. Dependability and hp.

Some early MAN common rail engines had a few problems but they are excellent engines. For a 800+ hp need, I'd opt for MAN over Cummins, but there are some trade-offs. Maintenance costs are high and they are a lot like Mercedes cars.......you work on them the way the maker wants you to or it costs a fortune to fix what you screwed up. Service can also be spotty in some parts of the country, and many times you only have one MAN trained service company to choose from and monopolies are always expensive to deal with.

 

[NCBoater]

Frank

You state that you would select Man over Cummins for greater than 800 hp. That is true because Cummins does not offer a marine engine above 800 hp. You mentioned serious offshore builders use MAN cat etc. Viking has selected Cummins for their new 42 open and convertible fish boats. For the 52 I would take the Cummins over MAN due to the reputation of the QSM's.....

Mark

 

[OldSkool]

Man engines are a great engine but Franks points are valid on price and technical aspects of the engine. If your looking for good power and easy serviceablity then Cummins may be your choice. Of course being a Volvo guy I'm glad we are listed with the top 3 engine manufactures in the world.

 

[bmac]

There is a reason that the builders of serious offshore boats, Cabo, Hatteras, Marlow, and multi mil $ sportfishermen use MAN, Caterpillar or MTU engines. Dependability and hp.

Some early MAN common rail engines had a few problems but they are excellent engines. For a 800+ hp need, I'd opt for MAN over Cummins, but there are some trade-offs. Maintenance costs are high and they are a lot like Mercedes cars.......you work on them the way the maker wants you to or it costs a fortune to fix what you screwed up. Service can also be spotty in some parts of the country, and many times you only have one MAN trained service company to choose from and monopolies are always expensive to deal with.

Frank, when you say early common rail engines, what years are you referring to? I'm looking back to 2005 but am leaning more towards an '06 or '07. Owning 2 Mercede's I know what you mean about their maintenance schedules (maybe it's a German thing). That is one of the things that scares me with the MAN's. The local service center told me the biennial heat exchanger service costs about $15k. Fortunately on LI we're not subject to a monopoloy for MAN service with two providers here. The MAN's scare me a bit (my SR salesman refers to them as MANgrenades) but I have a feeling they are the better choice on some fronts with the Cummins being preferred on others. Not sure how I'm going to get comfortable with one over the other, fortunately I'm not at a decision point yet.

 

[bmac]

Frank

You state that you would select Man over Cummins for greater than 800 hp. That is true because Cummins does not offer a marine engine above 800 hp. You mentioned serious offshore builders use MAN cat etc. Viking has selected Cummins for their new 42 open and convertible fish boats. For the 52 I would take the Cummins over MAN due to the reputation of the QSM's.....

Mark

Mark, is yours the blue hull 50DB for sale in Wrightsville?

 

[bmac]

My 2004 48DB with the Cunmmins cruises best at 2000 RPM burning 45-46 gph at 31.3 mph. WOT 37 mph. Its alot of fuel but I don't think there is another boat of this size thats more efficient at this speed.

That's pretty much what I would expect with the 52DB, fast boats for their size.

 

[fwebster]

Brian,

The first 2-3 MAN common rail engines our dealer had some problems. Most were fixed under warranty, but MAN was a stickler and refused coverage on consumables and wear items. Our dealer or Sea Ray stepped up and covered the antifreeze, belts, oil, etc. ad needed.

Other than that, we've got 100's of them in this area in everything from Sea Rays to $5.0 mil customs and all they do is run. The MAN dealer here is also the local Cummins dealer and he spends far more time on Cummins boats than on MAN boats, but that could easily be a product of how many MAN boats there are vs. Cummins boats rather than any measure of engine performance.

 

[NCBoater]

Brian

Yes, that is my boat you see in Yacht World. I have owned since new. If you are in market for a SR 48/50/52 they are great boats. I think the engine room layout is the best of the searays, more room to work than the 58 Bridge. Simple straight shafts with mid ship straight 6 mounted engines. I just upgraded all the electronics, as I don't like the Windows Based SR Nav. system. Best to budget for new electronics when you buy this boat. Let me know if I can answer any questions.

Mark

 

[NCBoater]

Brian

I have owned my boat since 2005. Other than normal annual oil/filter changes along with new impellers and Rydlyme treatment of the cooling system the Cummins have been very good. I perform most of the maintenance myself. However, this past summer a turbo failed on one of the engines and Cummins provided a new turbo.... at no charge! (These engines were not under warranty.) See if MAN will stand behind their product past the warranty period ...

 

[wetpaint]

NC...Why you selling?

 

[NCBoater]

Wetpaint

Looking to do some sport fishing.