I've narrowed my search for the next boat to either a 500DA or 48DA. Which would you choose based on the build quality between these models, the engine choices, the functional design, and the reliability? The cost of ownership should be a wash because they are about the same size and price. Assuming all is equal with the care of the boats and features. I'm not concerned with engine hours as I will only choose a boat that has been well cared for, run, and maintained. Thanks for your comments.
500DA or 48DA
- Thread starter JV II
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Pietro
Active Member
If we are talking about this
and this
I would choose the second :thumbsup:
I like the overall shape better and its higher bow.
I like the open hard-top with a gap between it and the windshield and there’s a real guest/day head you can use without going through the guest cabin! This feature only would drive me away from the 480….
The guest cabin on the 500 has a lower double and upper bunk instead of the twins on the 480, and that’s better for me.
Concerning construction or performance, someone else will tell you more…
and this
I would choose the second :thumbsup:
I like the overall shape better and its higher bow.
I like the open hard-top with a gap between it and the windshield and there’s a real guest/day head you can use without going through the guest cabin! This feature only would drive me away from the 480….
The guest cabin on the 500 has a lower double and upper bunk instead of the twins on the 480, and that’s better for me.
Concerning construction or performance, someone else will tell you more…
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Robski97
Well-Known Member
I think he is talking about the NEW 50. ( Old 48 just new # ) Which i dont think he would find used yet. Im a fan of the 48 but wish it had more HP .
Rob
Rob
- Jan 26, 2008
- 2,839
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- SOLD 2005 420 DA w/T-8.1S Horizons
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I really like the 48 but in my neck of the woods the windshield attaching to the hardtop is a deal killer. No AC will keep up with the heat we have during the summer. However I see you're in the NE so this may not be a concern for you. I personally prefer the aft cabin layout of the 48 to the midcabin layout of the 50. I like my guests being as far away as possible. :smt001
- Oct 6, 2006
- 12,155
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- 1996 450DA
- Engines
- 3116 Caterpillars
Several guys here have 48Da's with upgraded cockpit air units and complete aft enclosures......you can't hang meat in the cockpit, but they are definitely cool enough.
But, the 500DA with QSM-11 engines is a whole lot more boat.
But, the 500DA with QSM-11 engines is a whole lot more boat.
rcon
New Member
- Jun 16, 2011
- 481
- Boat Info
- Preparation
'93 300 Sundancer
w/ Kohler genset
Raymarine E7D
- Engines
- 4.3l Mercruisers w/Alpha 1
Slight hijack, why is one model x-hundred (ie. 500DA), and one just x (48DA)
Both are magnificent looking boats, but my opinion is based on pictures only
Both are magnificent looking boats, but my opinion is based on pictures only
The QSM-11s on this boat had white cotton oil pads under the engines with the port side showing a lot of drip marks. Is it common for diesel engines to have oil dripping from them? It wasn't isolated to the front cover of the engine, but there was some around there. Something to be concerned about?
rszarka
Member
- Mar 19, 2011
- 982
- Boat Info
- 1999 Sea Ray Sundancer 540
- Engines
- Twin Detroit Diesel 8v92TA
Jv11: I'm not sure about qsm engines as I know nothing about them. I have Detroit diesels in my boat and they constantly leak oil. In fact when I asked the mechanic about the leaking oil he said it is next to impossible to make them not leak. He told a story of a wealthy customer who did not care what it cost just stop the leaks he told him these just leak and it's not really possible he told him to go ahead anyways. He tore the engine down changed every single seal and like he said it would the damn thing still leaked.
I just found this on the engine you are talking about in a forum.
Look over the complete engine for oil leaks. Pay particular attention to the front seal, and the area between the gearbox and engine. Leaks in the front or rear seal can mean a coming engine rebuild.
This is where you can find that complete article.
http://www.justanswer.com/boat/1jv3w-rate-cummins-diesel-eng-qsm-11-51.html
I just found this on the engine you are talking about in a forum.
Look over the complete engine for oil leaks. Pay particular attention to the front seal, and the area between the gearbox and engine. Leaks in the front or rear seal can mean a coming engine rebuild.
This is where you can find that complete article.
http://www.justanswer.com/boat/1jv3w-rate-cummins-diesel-eng-qsm-11-51.html
HUMPH
Well-Known Member
- Nov 4, 2009
- 7,618
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- 2003 410DA
2009 Walker Bay 13’
- Engines
- CAT 3126TA's 350HP/
50HP Honda
My CATs leak no oil.
Russ Calasant
Active Member
My Cummins don't leak oil either. If Frank suggests that the 500 is more boat I would take a long hard look at it.
Morgan Jane
Active Member
As a follow up to what Frank said, I think it comes down to where and how you plan on using your boat. The two boats may be Sundancers but IMHO they are completely different animals.
The one main comment that I always get from anyone that ever spends time on my boat is that they always say that there is so much room on a 48DA. I thnk the reason is simple.
The movement alleys on the 48 are all down the middle of the boat. This because Sea Ray chose to put the opening from the helm to the Salon in the middle of the boat as well as split the cockpit area. This is a big game changer. You go down the steps and the Kitchen is to the left and salon to the right. It means that when someone (women) are in the kitchen, there are not guests moving "around" them as the go to the day head. It may not seem like a big deal, but everyone woman who has ever been on my boat absolutely lover the galley. As far as the helm area goes, I installed an aft drop curtain, supercharged the AC system, installed a large screen TV on a electric lift, and spend on my time at the Helm/Sunroom. As a sidenote, for somereason, I prefer the guest cabin to the master cabin. Not sure why. There are plenty of reasons that I don't need to go into, but it just works better for me. I tell my guest that the back cabin is mine and the are free to do what they want in the rest of the boat.
As far as the QSC Cummins go. Awesome! In the 5 years I have had the boat, I have had a Intake Manifold Temp. sensor go bad and a front seal go bad. thats it. I have put 250 hours on the boat and other than the front seal on the one engine, not a drop of oil anywhere.
Overall, my opinion is that 48 is a more modern layout and the 500 is more traditional Sundancer layout from the late 1990's. The 48 was a radical change with the front glass going all the way to the hardtop. The one major drawback for the 48 is that if you are going to boat in a high temp area, the helm area will get very hot whether you have the front vents open and the roof vents open or not. It is kind of where Sea Ray missed the boat on the 48. You have a almost completely enclosed helm(aka greenhouse) area and they chose to use the same AC technology they had used from the 90's. In order to get the helm as cool enough to be able to use almost year round, I had to rework the AC extensively. I currently have the boat listed for sale on Yacht world. There are some nice pictures on there that show the mods a made to the Helm AC to work the way I wanted and to be able to "hang meat" as Frank put it.
For this reason alone, if you are going to boat in very hot weather and you do not like running your generator and your helm AC all the time and/or doing major mods to the helm AC, I would go with the 500DA. just IMHO.
- Jan 26, 2008
- 2,839
- Boat Info
- SOLD 2005 420 DA w/T-8.1S Horizons
- Engines
- 2018 Sea Hunt 255se w/Yamaha 300hp
Well, crap! I love the 48, even if she's not right for me, and I'm afraid that one day I'm going to do something stupid. If it weren't for the windshield thing there would be no competition between the 48 & 50 for me personally.
Good luck on selling it. What's next?
PS, post a link to your yachtworld ad.
- Oct 6, 2006
- 12,155
- Boat Info
- 1996 450DA
- Engines
- 3116 Caterpillars
Some engines leak; some do not. Almost all Detroits leak oil, and about 2/3 of the Cummins here have oil drips. My Caterpillars have no leaks after 1500 hours. The Cummins I see with pads catching drips are just a leaky gasket or seal that isn't a precursor or indicator of pending failure, but a leak that is hard to fix and expensive to access so the decision is usually to use diapers rather than spend thousands on a few drops a week. And, one thing about diesel oil in a bilge......a drop or 2 looks like a whole lot.
However, a leak can be an indicator of a serious future problem, and generally the more the leak the worse the problem. For that reason, an engine showing a leak absolutely must be surveyed by a trained technician and the cause of the leak addressed. With a Cummins it is nearly always more of a mess than a mechanical issue that needs attention. Now, this is not a common problem, but it can happen.....There was a QSM failure in a transient boat passing thru this area where a front seal had been leaking a while. The cause eventually turned out to be excessive front to back movement of the crankshaft as torque was applied. The crankshaft broke in front of the first main bearing, and the one on the other side in the same boat had excessive movement as well......it would be nice to catch that on a pre-purchase survey because the repair bill for both engines exceeded $60K, and Cummins didn't want to pay for the second engine because the crankshaft had not broken yet.
Morgan Jane
Active Member
here is the link
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2005/Sea-Ray-480-Sundancer-2501492/Annapolis/MD/United-States
I didn't want to sound Biased so I wanted to show there is a negative side to everything but to me the 48 wins hands down. No comparison. However, I wouldn't have a problem with owning an 500DA either. I like them both. But having to choose, the 48 would be the winner. I am at a point where I have boated everywhere I can in my area and it is getting old. I am selling and getting out for 4 or 5 years. At that point, I hope to retire, my kids will be gone, and I will get either another 48 or a maybe even a 68 and do some traveling. That is really the only two boats I can see owning. And I just want shafts. I am sure the Zeus is great and would totallyl amazed if I piloted a new Dancer with Zeus drives. But I like owning things that I can usually tear apart and fix my self should the time come. And the Zeus is just a little too complicated for me. Keep it simple stupid is my motto. Diesel/V-drive/shafts is simple in my book.
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I've had two oil drip problems on my QSM-11's. The first was the front gear case oil seal and I've talked about that before. The second was the port engine oil pan gasket had to be replaced. That happened at about 200 hours though and was done under warranty. Now that I think about it... I did have to replace the raw water pump (Sherwood 1810) on the port engine around 500 hours as it was leaking oil... I ended up replacing both water pumps as I didn't want the second to go bad. All these leaks are pretty minor though. I never had more than a couple teaspoons for the whole season when the gaskets were leaking.... it was just annoying.
I've talked about the other issues to look for in the QSM engines in another thread... there are like 4 common problems and you need to look for those.
I've talked about the other issues to look for in the QSM engines in another thread... there are like 4 common problems and you need to look for those.
HUMPH
Well-Known Member
- Nov 4, 2009
- 7,618
- Boat Info
- 2003 410DA
2009 Walker Bay 13’
- Engines
- CAT 3126TA's 350HP/
50HP Honda
Congrats, how long did it take to find a buyer?
ziekman@cox.net
Active Member
JVII- I'd like to PM you, but your box is full.
