470 Sundancer

T

tobnpr

New Member
Nov 12, 2006
3,246
New Port Richey, Florida
Boat Info
1988 300 DA
Engines
tw 350's w/ Alphas
I was looking at some of the current models offered.
I'm just not getting "it"...

There's been discussion before about the 450, and it seemed many here felt SR blew it on that design; I guess sales will settle the debate. I don't get a 45 footer (well, it's not really, but that's what they call it) with a 12'-6" beam... but since they're trying to push that big boat with gas stern drives as standard power that's all they could get away with...

Now I look at the 470. More of a "traditional" DA layout.
There's easily 4' of cockpit length/space "lost" due to the sunpad layout. The useable cockpit space looks more like what you'd see on a 35'er. Is that radius sheer at the stern so important?

http://searay.com/Page.aspx/pageId/10230/pmid/171078/470-Sundancer.aspx

I'm sure there's a ton of storage in that area, but is that what boaters today really want?
I can't imagine a buyer thinking " I'm happy to give up all that seating and entertaining area- look at all the storage I'm getting!". I think it looks strange- such a small cockpit on a 47'er.

In contrast, Regal's 44 has the cockpit seating all the way aft to the transom- and extends the sunpad area out onto the swim deck platform- much better use of space. Yeah, I know that won't work with a hydraulic platform...but the SR's lift is an option, not standard. I think this boat has the SR beat hands down from that perspective. I'd bet the Regal has more interior space- AND more cockpit space, than the SR which is 3' longer...

http://www.regalboats.com/44SportCoupe

Am I missing the "boat" somewhere?
 
I agree with you. I think the SR looks good on the exterior and even the interior, but on the inside I think they missed the mark for making the most of the space provided.

I also agree that Regal has done a very good job with their 44.

Doug
 
I am certainly not a proponent of gas engines in big boats, but once you run a Zeus powered boat you can understand why the designers feel gas engine work in larger boats with pod drives. The running surface is very very clean and the decreased drag is very obvious.

I'm an old school guy, so I have to wonder what would happen if you hooked up big torque, slow speed diesels to Zeus drives instead of those little diesels or gas engines. I'm thinking the result might be like a bullet with motors...........
 
I've seen the Regal 44 coup in AC boat show few weeks ago. It was indeed very nice, but I still not sure I'd like to own IPS or Zues drives boat. I know that IPS technology was on the market longer than Zues, but I guess I have to learn more and gather all the facts and statistics that would raise my comfort level. I do feel much more comfortable with only shaft and props as my underwater gear.
 
I would first like to see Searay get their snap in carpets right (black backing) before intrusting them with new pod technology.......I do like the 47 over the 45 because of the separate aft cabin......
 
It's a nice boat, but I'm way too old school to be sold on it...I would still feel more comfortable with shafts and possibly no V-drives.
What I do not like is the lay-out. I think cockpit should be as large as possible with seating close to the water. No sunpad at the transom, it takes space and there are few chances it will be in the sun completely...sunbather please go on the bow!!
Inside: why there's no more possibility of getting a real day head for guests??? The second head is inside the guest room and the sink is in the room itself!!! How are you supposed to wash, use the wc, take a shower... sorry, but I do not understand. Moreover, should you have a guest sleeping in the dinette which head should he use without bothering everybody else?
 
Alex F said:
I've seen the Regal 44 coup in AC boat show few weeks ago. It was indeed very nice, but I still not sure I'd like to own IPS or Zues drives boat. I know that IPS technology was on the market longer than Zues, but I guess I have to learn more and gather all the facts and statistics that would raise my comfort level. I do feel much more comfortable with only shaft and props as my underwater gear.
Click to expand...

Pod drives aren't new to the marine industry. They've been around for years on cruise ships, etc. From what I've read, pod drives appear to be more robust than many originally thought. Some may disagree, but I wouldn't say they are any more susceptible to underwater damage vs. a standard shaft driven prop. Can they be more expensive to fix if damage occurs? Yes, depending on the damage. But more susceptible? Probably not.

Doug
 
douglee25 said:
Pod drives aren't new to the marine industry. They've been around for years on cruise ships, etc. From what I've read, pod drives appear to be more robust than many originally thought. Some may disagree, but I wouldn't say they are any more susceptible to underwater damage vs. a standard shaft driven prop. Can they be more expensive to fix if damage occurs? Yes, depending on the damage. But more susceptible? Probably not.

Doug
Click to expand...

Doug,
while other brands have been using Pod drives for some time those were in combination with volvo engines (at least those that I've seen). So, while I'm trying to stick with SR brand b/c in the end we liked the package we get we're looking at zues drives. At this point I don't want to have a boat with volvo engines and/or boat with zues. Shafts with props as running gear have been proven for ages, so I would want to wait quite some time before I build my confidence in something else. In my case the fear is maintenance cost and limited knowledgible services. I don't want to be in position where only my local dealer can fix the boat and then charge me arm and a leg.
 
wetpaint said:
I would first like to see Searay get their snap in carpets right (black backing) before intrusting them with new pod technology.......I do like the 47 over the 45 because of the separate aft cabin......
Click to expand...

I think there is a different guy in charge of the carpeting. I wouldn't blame the drivetrain guy for that. I hope the drivetrain guy is not in charge of the carpeting. (sarcasm)

I read all the criticism of the 450's lack of an aft cabin and did not have an opinion. After seeing the 450, I like it. I think I am the "new Sea Ray Customer" they are targeting. I'm 42. I got my first Sundancer, an '07 290Da when I was 40. We have a smaller family. Moving up in the Sundancer line, I'm used to the open space of the cabin and don't need an acre of cockpit space. The open cabin of the 450 with its "living room" is perfect the multi-uses our family needs. We would be able to share/use that space by day and then close the curtain at night for my son. If it were an aft cabin, it would be unused during the morning/day/evening. The "small" cockpit of the 450 and 470 is an enormous gain in square footage moving up from a 330. The sunpad and storage are desirable for the way we use the boat.

Moving from a 380 or 400/420 to a 450 or 470 does not get you much more boat. I don't think Sea Ray is betting on that scenario with the new layouts. I think the 330, 350, 370 owners are the ones they are targeting. Just my $0.02.
 
I do agree with JV - the 450 is an really great design, depending on how you boat. The quality of the newer designs and materials they are using in the cabins is modern and appeals to me. I was on the Regal at the norwalk boat show and was not impressed with the quality nor the design of the cockpit. I guess it is a matter of opinion.
 
I could see how some may find the newer Sea Ray's appealing because they're modern, etc. I think Sea Ray just hooked line and sinkered you. If you look deeper than the nice interior materials, etc, you will find that Sea Ray is charging more but giving the customer less. Go on some of the older Sea Ray's and you'll see what I mean. They are truly much bigger boats.

Doug
 
That 450 could be mistaken for the actual demensions of less than an older 400 Sundancer. I dont even think that the 470 is as big as the older 400/410/420/44 Sundancers.
 
Did everyone notice the expensive solid wood doors and cabinet drawers that Sea Ray makes for its own boats? That definitely is not how you cut corners. No other manufacturer matches that quality. Yes, that is cosmetic, but I bet most buyers will not notice that.

I agree that the 45DA is the same size and dimension as a 40 or 42DA. Nobody is disputing that the nomencature for 2010 hit the reset button. MSRP has increased as well. There are plenty of 40 and 42DA's to be had on the used boat market. I think the style and technology/engineering difference between a 40/42 and 45 are significant enough to call the 45 better and different. I recall Sea Ray had a 44DA at last year's New England Baot Show with a price pretty darn close to the 45DA.
 
Holy Crap!
$730,000 is their "Boat Show Special"?

SR has cracked...they're nice boats... but not THAT nice...it's still a production boat...

Let's see...

I could buy this 50 foot Jeanneau (brand new) with a 14'-6" beam, and twin 575 hp Volvos...sorry, but Sea Ray can't compare:

http://www.prestige-yachts.fr/en/15/prestige+50+s.html

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2008/Jeanneau-Prestige-50-1803282/Norwalk/CT/United-States

Overpriced- by ALOT- is the only way to describe it. You'd have to be an idiot to spend 3/4 of a million on that boat.

Oh, yeah- the Jeanneau has a hydraulic garage under the main deck to carry your RIB. Sea Ray?? Not to mention TWO heads, and TWO staterooms...
 
Last edited:
tobnpr said:
Holy Crap!
$730,000 is their "Boat Show Special"?

SR has cracked...they're nice boats... but not THAT nice...it's still a production boat...
Click to expand...


If you like it and are serious about buying it, that is exactly the reaction that SR wants you to have because there is a lot of room to negotiate from there. Imagine if the MSRP is a million, the Boat Show Special is $730,000 and for you my special friend a $100,000 discount off the Boat Show Special if you sign the papers today.
 
$100,000? No thanks. Call me when we're starting at 50% - that's where the numbers really are.
 
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