460DA versus 500DA

Jack

Jack

Member
Oct 6, 2006
157
Charlottesville, VA / Deltaville, VA
Boat Info
2002 480 MY
Engines
Cummins QSM11
I have decided to sell my 370Da and move up to a diesel powered sundancer. I looked at a 460DA and a 500DA over the weekend and loved both but for very different reasons. I am looking at 2002 + 460's and 2003 - 2005 500's. The midcabin in the 460 is great and the berth seemed plenty large enough for two people and having the second head would be great. The 2nd stateroom on the 500 offers less room but I loved the salon and the openness of the cockpit. I have read many threads about the 460 on CSR but could not find much information about the 500. I would love to hear from owners of both as to what you like and dislike. I would also like to hear about the boats handling characteristics and ride. Anyone who could share performance numbers both cruise and burn I would appreciate it as well. Thanks in advance for your responses.
 
Sea Ray has figured out the mid-sized to large Sundancer. Both are good boats and neither has a show stopping feature or characteristic. Of the 2, I would much prefer the 500DA, but I do my own maintenance and a good part of the reason is the engine room on the 500 is one of the best on a DA. I also like the QSM-11 Cummins better than the C-series Cummins in the 460 because they have big diesel torque much like Caterpillars do. I am not fond of the bow rise and blind spot in the 460DA when it has a hardtop and hydraulic platform.

So, as you can see this is going to boil down to your preference since the real differences are not many, other then size and avoiding "4ft.-itis" in the future.
 
Crap. Thanks Frank. I was thinking 410, then saw that a 460 is within reach. Now you tell me that the 500 is the boat to have. If I don't make AC this weekend, it's because my wife buried me in the back yard.

Best regards,
Frank
 
Thanks Frank, does the 500 display any bow rise or bow up attitude while running? Beyond the torque is there anything else to like more about the QSM-11's versus the C-series?
 
Jack said:
Thanks Frank, does the 500 display any bow rise or bow up attitude while running? Beyond the torque is there anything else to like more about the QSM-11's versus the C-series?
Click to expand...

Jack, I have a friend with a 2005 500 (for sale if you're interested) and I have driven this boat several times. There is hardly any bow rise, my friend never needs to touch the trim tabs and the boat is extremely stable on plane.
 
Gary..........its a 700hp vs. <500 hp question..........what's not to like?

The 500DA has no noticable bow rise. One of the reasons I like it so much is that it runs just like my 450DA.........they just seem to transition from displacement speeds to planing speeds with no change in running angle. Be sure to look at the differences in the engine spaces........there is a remarkable difference.

But don't over-analyze the bow rise. It is true that you are blind for several seconds but that may not be an issue for you in your area. Here, we have a ton of tourist traffic in rental pontoon boats and PWC's, all with no clue about channel markers, rules of the road or right of way. They just seem to dart about every which way with no regard to reason or common sense. I won't open a 460DA up until I get to completely open water where there are no canbotes or water roaches (PWC's) in sight.

The QSM is an electronic engine that has had very few major issues. The 6CTA is a mechanical engine with much smaller displacement that is also free from major issues and the risk of electronic controls. The 480CE is a C-series with electronic controls, again with no major issues. The QSM is a big displacement diesel that is very nicely suited to the 500DA, the 460DA also runs in the 24-26 kt area with the C-series, but is a lowe torque engine. Its a smaller boat; smaller motor thing.
 
Al, yes I would be interested in hearing about your friends boat.

Frank, I did notice the difference in the engine rooms. The 500 is big enough for several and you can get all the way around. My in-laws live in PC and we have been coming down there for the past 35+ years so I know what you mean when it comes to the tourists in the rental boats. Not sure the bow rise would be as big an issue in our part of the bay. Do you have any idea what the cruise and burn difference would be? I had read/heard the 460 cruised more in the 19-21 knot range not 24-26?!? That was one of my concerns. I would like to pick up a bit of speed over my 370.
 
Jack, On mine the cruise is 19-21 K depending tide, load etc. Bob
 
Jack,

It's an interesting comparison, 460DA vs 500DA but it's not apples to apples. As Frank points out the 500 is a bigger boat with bigger iron and with the straight drives would be faster. I'd like to own one some day.

The 460 has served us well. My Cummins 8.3CTA are mechanical. I'm leaving on a 700Nm trip next week and expect to get the same 31.4 gph fuel burn as last year's trip. Cruise is 20 knots fully fueled and creeps up to 23 knots, 27 kn top end. It's not a fast boat but really stable and relaxed, great around the dock. I run it at 85-88% WOT as the Cummins people suggested (actually they said 90%). Bow rise is not a problem but you have to use the tabs aggressively and then bring them up later. I have the hydraulic platform and 500lbs. of dinghy loaded on.

All in all we love the boat but the big plus is the layout with the large cabin that can be separated if you have another couple aboard.

If you need information I would be pleased to provide more. (also I do all of my own routine maintenance and the only ugly spot is the starboard impeller, but it's do-able).

Good luck in your search. Both are great boats.

James
 
The 500-52DA, like the 510DA before it and the 500DA before that, all break the mold of what we think of as a Sundancer by putting the guest quarters fwd of the salon. That makes them seem like they have straight drives, but they don't: they're V-Drive boats.
 
I wish a 46 vs. a 50 were the least of my problems...
 
Jaws said:
I'm leaving on a 700Nm trip next week and expect to get the same 31.4 gph fuel burn as last year's trip. Cruise is 20 knots fully fueled and creeps up to 23 knots, 27 kn top end.
Click to expand...

Good to know! Thanks. That's about what my 330DA burns. I have to get rid of that pig.
 
RollerCoastr said:
The 500-52DA, like the 510DA before it and the 500DA before that, all break the mold of what we think of as a Sundancer by putting the guest quarters fwd of the salon. That makes them seem like they have straight drives, but they don't: they're V-Drive boats.
Click to expand...

Roller: Thanks, I should have remembered that.

Frank: I'm happy with the fuel "economy" of the C motors but it would be nice to have a bit more speed on longer trips.
 
I'm solidly in the Frank Webster camp on the speed issue. Half the fun of the trip is the ride, I don't see the need to shorten it. Also, generally speaking when running offshore the ride gets substantially worse with small increments in speed, unless the ocean is unusually flat, so the extra speed capability often doesn't buy anything. Finally, I am sure that there is an inverse correlation between the amount of use a boat gets and the amount of fuel it burns.

Best regards,
Frank
 
My comments maybe erroneous. I have not boated for any extended time in salt water and never with a boat much larger than 30 feet or so.

Now that my disclaimer is made, on these larger sea rays like the 460 and 500 how much room is there to walk on the deck from the stern to the bow. I know on the 270 it is possible but not something you would want to do in rough seas. When I look at trawlers the larger walkway seems to be a safer design
than the narrow one on the express cruisers. Is this an important design issue?

John
 
James, thanks for the input. I have read many of your post on the 460. I would be interested to know how you like the cockpit now that you have added the camper. We have a camper on the 370 and it makes it a great room year round. The only downside we have found is on the really hot days. Does the little AC help at all on the 460? Also, from my time on the boat the galley storage and counter space seem small. Has this caused you any problems? That is one of the reasons we started looking at the 500 but I like the 2nd stateroom on the 460 much better. The bunk in the 500 would be tough on the old knees. I would appreciate your thoughts. Thanks.
 
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