420/44 DB Owners Club

[Richard Carlisle]

One more thing. The fluxgate compass for the Ray AP is indeed behind the couch. Pic below.

 

[bajturner]

Made some headway on the AC relay box and amplifier mysteries. I found the AC relay behind the couch, took the cover off and it looks factory under the cover. I checked incoming voltage and there is none.

What I found was that the cable from the panel to the relay box had been cut behind the panel and a new cable was run straight from the panel breaker to the pump. The cable going from the box to the pump was cut near the pump. I ohmed out both cables and they appear to be fine. Even it they are not, pulling new ones isn’t a big deal.

I can’t seem to find a reason for bypassing the relay box. I have good trigger voltage from both AC’s and I hear the relays click when the AC compressor comes on. I’m thinking I’ll just reconnect everything as it should be and see what happens.

Issue 2, amplifiers. I found the amps behind the couch. There is no power going to either of them. I’m guessing that these amps were to supply the interior speakers? The boat has a JL Audio head unit under the TV connected to the cockpit speakers. The subwoofer doesn’t work because I’m pretty sure the 2 speakers are connected directly to the head unit with no amp.

I was thinking of adding an amp to the JL head unit to get the subs working. That would go in the space under the TV. Since the 2 amps behind the couch don’t work, I’m thinking get rid of them and maybe install a 2000W inverter back there tied to the outlets. Maybe 2 1000w inverters, one for port outlets and one for stbd.

With the amps gone, I could add another head unit dedicated to the interior speakers. There is a small amp beside the AC relay also. Can anyone confirm that these amps are tied to the interior speakers? Pics below. Thanks.

View attachment 152697View attachment 152698

That is not a factory install. Originally, there was one large, 4-channel amp where the two amps are now. Two channels ran the two cockpit and two bridge speakers (wired in parallel) and the other 2 channels were bridge to run the sub. It's hard to tell from your picture what has been done there, but it looks like two line level inputs to each, the one on the right being L/R, and the amp on the left possibly Y input for the sub (both RCAs the same color).

The small amp near the AC relay runs the two salon and two master stateroom speakers (also wired in parallel). The stateroom speakers were wired via a balanced volume controller in the stateroom. I can see from your picture the speakers seem to still be wired in parallel, but there is no line-level (RCA) input.

On my boat, no speaker wire made its way to the head unit under the TV s no speakers were powered by the original Clarion head unit.

The amps should be wired for power and then typically would be turned on using the remote trigger (blue wire).

Here is what the original install looked like:

I replaced the head unit with a Fusion RA770, ran additional line level cables to the area behind the couch such that I have a total of 9 (one for each channel: two plus one on the bridge, two in the cockpit, two in the salon, and two in the stateroom), and added a 6- and two 2-channel Fusion amps (should have done a 4-channel instead of the 2x2s) and can control each zone independently from the RA770.

All speakers are now Fusion Signature Series.

I use the small Fusion wireless remotes anywhere I want control capability.

I'll try to remember to take some pictures this weekend.

There has been a lot tried and discussed regarding inverters, what would you actually power with them, and the amount of battery capacity needed to practically use them. When you run some power budgets, the feasibility and usefulness raises a lot of questions.

It sounds like the PO might have been a bit of a DIY hack! Any time you spend mapping and tracing everything out and correcting poor installations will be very valuable.

 

[SeaNile]

We r thinking sell the 44 DB and get a cruisers yacht 52 Express. At almost 67 and 68 yrs old not having the bridge steps would be nice. In fact I already fell down them.

Have you looked at the 50/52 03-08 SunDancer? We looked at the 52 Cruisers and preferred the SunDancer. If you were local to the Upper Chesapeake area you could hang out of mine for a day to get the feel for these boats. Mine is listed for sale and recently there are quite a few of these for sale.

 

[Richard Carlisle]

That is not a factory install. Originally, there was one large, 4-channel amp where the two amps are now. Two channels ran the two cockpit and two bridge speakers (wired in parallel) and the other 2 channels were bridge to run the sub. It's hard to tell from your picture what has been done there, but it looks like two line level inputs to each, the one on the right being L/R, and the amp on the left possibly Y input for the sub (both RCAs the same color).

The small amp near the AC relay runs the two salon and two master stateroom speakers (also wired in parallel). The stateroom speakers were wired via a balanced volume controller in the stateroom. I can see from your picture the speakers seem to still be wired in parallel, but there is no line-level (RCA) input.

On my boat, no speaker wire made its way to the head unit under the TV s no speakers were powered by the original Clarion head unit.

The amps should be wired for power and then typically would be turned on using the remote trigger (blue wire).

Here is what the original install looked like:

View attachment 152708

View attachment 152707

I replaced the head unit with a Fusion RA770, ran additional line level cables to the area behind the couch such that I have a total of 9 (one for each channel: two plus one on the bridge, two in the cockpit, two in the salon, and two in the stateroom), and added a 6- and two 2-channel Fusion amps (should have done a 4-channel instead of the 2x2s) and can control each zone independently from the RA770.

All speakers are now Fusion Signature Series.

I use the small Fusion wireless remotes anywhere I want control capability.

I'll try to remember to take some pictures this weekend.

There has been a lot tried and discussed regarding inverters, what would you actually power with them, and the amount of battery capacity needed to practically use them. When you run some power budgets, the feasibility and usefulness raises a lot of questions.

It sounds like the PO might have been a bit of a DIY hack! Any time you spend mapping and tracing everything out and correcting poor installations will be very valuable.

Thanks for the detailed response. Seeing as how none of it is factory, chasing the audio wiring is probably futile. The AC on the other hand, does need to be retired to factory schematics.

The current setup is….JL Audio head under the TV with a remote in the cockpit with sub and 2 speakers. The two speakers are connected to the head speaker Level output. The sub is not connected and there does not appear to be an amp associated with this head unit.

There is a matching separate System on the bridge. Same deal. Speakers connected to the head unit, sub disconnected and no amp. This winter I’ll do some tracing and see if I can make sense of the two existing amps.

The inverter(s) would just feed the port and stbd outlets, which would be light loads like phone chargers, starlink and TV. The genset is running most of the time anyway just because we rarely find a day where AC or heat is not needed.

 

[Richard Carlisle]

So on a 2007 DB with QSC-500’s, does anyone know the model number of the groco strainer used? I want to order spare caps but can’t figure out what I have.

Id like to do the same for the AC and genset strainers. All I know about them is that they use a BP-3 strainer.

Thanks

 

[bajturner]

Thanks for the detailed response. Seeing as how none of it is factory, chasing the audio wiring is probably futile. The AC on the other hand, does need to be retired to factory schematics.

Agreed. For the audio wiring, however, you may be able to make use of the original speaker wiring to optimize or simplify the system using modern equipment (like the multi-zone RA770) if that is a consideration. It would be easy to sort out.

The inverter(s) would just feed the port and stbd outlets, which would be light loads like phone chargers, starlink and TV.

Some things to consider...
- It is straightforward and cost effective to run 12V to locations where you want to provide accessory / USB power.
- Starlink can run off 12V, I believe.
- TVs can easily be run with the installation of small, point-of-use inverters to power them alone. Just make sure to get good ones. I installed two of these at the TV in the salon and in the stateroom:

https://www.kisaepower.com/products/sl1204/

They have worked very well over the past few years.

I presume one of these could easily run both a TV and Starlink...

One is in the cabinet in front of the salon air conditioner (does not need to be removed to access AC unit) and one is in the cavity behind the stateroom TV. I took power from the 12V outlet in the media cabinet, and stole power from the lighting circuit in the stateroom via a new breaker panel in the port side master closet. Panel has breakers for the inverter, a fan, and a USB charger outlet (total wattage draw similar after replacing all light bulbs to LED). To do is run dedicated power to each location.

Endless upgrade possibilities!!

 

[Richard Carlisle]

I was thinking putting the inverters behind the couch would be pretty easy. 12V is accessible. The port and stbd systems breakers can provide pass through with the inverter output connected back to the original port and stbd systems wiring. Maybe add another couple batteries to the house side.

 

[NorCalRobert]

So on a 2007 DB with QSC-500’s, does anyone know the model number of the groco strainer used? I want to order spare caps but can’t figure out what I have.

Id like to do the same for the AC and genset strainers. All I know about them is that they use a BP-3 strainer.

Thanks

Here are the part numbers I order for my 2007 44DB when I replaced them

 

[Mark.60]

I believe I have a bad fuel injector on port motor. The cost for a tech to plug in a laptop is far more expensive than send all six injectors out to be cleaned and tested.Then rebuild or replace bad one. My question is on the QSC motors does the new injector need to be programed ?

 

[ttmott]

I believe I have a bad fuel injector on port motor. The cost for a tech to plug in a laptop is far more expensive than send all six injectors out to be cleaned and tested.Then rebuild or replace bad one. My question is on the QSC motors does the new injector need to be programed ?

The answer is Yes for the QSC common rail engine. When you replace an injector the "Cummins Injector Code" needs to be entered into the ECM. The data code is stenciled on the side of the injector. The Cummins Insite service software is needed to do this. They had to be done when the injectors were replaced on my engines.

 

[Mark.60]

The answer is Yes for the QSC common rail engine. When you replace an injector the "Cummins Injector Code" needs to be entered into the ECM. The data code is stenciled on the side of the injector. The Cummins Insite service software is needed to do this. They had to be done when the injectors were replaced on my engines.

thanks for the quick response

 

[Irie308]

Another one for the brain trust. So I have never really thought my analog gauges were reliable. When i've checked with others with similar motors they say their temp readings sit right at 160 mine never has. Mine tend to sit around 170. Once in a while the port motor will approach 178 or so however the starboard one never waivers .This is generally happens about 2 hours into cruising. If I slow down for a few mins and get back on plane it would drop back down to 170 and sit there for a few more hours. Have serviced the coolers and raw water system and no change same behavior year after year. This prompted me to install a nmea temp sensor into the coolant port on top of the exhaust manifold. When bringing the boat to her winter home this weekend (3 hour run) same thing happened however the digital temp sensor said my coolant temp at the manifold was in the 155-158 range. I also shot the manifold with an ir gun and it said the exterior of the manifold was in the 170's. I'm in the midst of replacing the coolant and maybe the thermostat as well but i doubt the thermostat is not functioning as the nmea sensor says its within range.

Also note my gauges have been replaced in the past to fix a different issue. Any ideas?

 

[bajturner]

Another one for the brain trust. So I have never really thought my analog gauges were reliable. When i've checked with others with similar motors they say their temp readings sit right at 160 mine never has. Mine tend to sit around 170. Once in a while the port motor will approach 178 or so however the starboard one never waivers .This is generally happens about 2 hours into cruising. If I slow down for a few mins and get back on plane it would drop back down to 170 and sit there for a few more hours. Have serviced the coolers and raw water system and no change same behavior year after year. This prompted me to install a nmea temp sensor into the coolant port on top of the exhaust manifold. When bringing the boat to her winter home this weekend (3 hour run) same thing happened however the digital temp sensor said my coolant temp at the manifold was in the 155-158 range. I also shot the manifold with an ir gun and it said the exterior of the manifold was in the 170's. I'm in the midst of replacing the coolant and maybe the thermostat as well but i doubt the thermostat is not functioning as the nmea sensor says its within range.

Also note my gauges have been replaced in the past to fix a different issue. Any ideas?

My digital temp gauges typically are around the mid-170s while on plane. They drop pretty quickly to the high 150s at cocktail speeds.

 

[bajturner]

That is not a factory install. Originally, there was one large, 4-channel amp where the two amps are now. Two channels ran the two cockpit and two bridge speakers (wired in parallel) and the other 2 channels were bridge to run the sub. It's hard to tell from your picture what has been done there, but it looks like two line level inputs to each, the one on the right being L/R, and the amp on the left possibly Y input for the sub (both RCAs the same color).

The small amp near the AC relay runs the two salon and two master stateroom speakers (also wired in parallel). The stateroom speakers were wired via a balanced volume controller in the stateroom. I can see from your picture the speakers seem to still be wired in parallel, but there is no line-level (RCA) input.

On my boat, no speaker wire made its way to the head unit under the TV s no speakers were powered by the original Clarion head unit.

The amps should be wired for power and then typically would be turned on using the remote trigger (blue wire).

Here is what the original install looked like:

View attachment 152708

View attachment 152707

I replaced the head unit with a Fusion RA770, ran additional line level cables to the area behind the couch such that I have a total of 9 (one for each channel: two plus one on the bridge, two in the cockpit, two in the salon, and two in the stateroom), and added a 6- and two 2-channel Fusion amps (should have done a 4-channel instead of the 2x2s) and can control each zone independently from the RA770.

All speakers are now Fusion Signature Series.

I use the small Fusion wireless remotes anywhere I want control capability.

I'll try to remember to take some pictures this weekend.

There has been a lot tried and discussed regarding inverters, what would you actually power with them, and the amount of battery capacity needed to practically use them. When you run some power budgets, the feasibility and usefulness raises a lot of questions.

It sounds like the PO might have been a bit of a DIY hack! Any time you spend mapping and tracing everything out and correcting poor installations will be very valuable.

Some pictures...

Zones on the RA770:

Amps:

Flybridge speakers (Fusion Signature Series 3 6.5" Coaxial + Fusion Signature Component Tweeters):

Flybridge sub (Fusion Signature 10" fits original cutout):

Cockpit speakers (Fusion Signature Series 3 8.8" Coaxial. I filled-in the holes from the original component tweeters):

The 8.8s really sound good. You can also see a Fusion wireless remote beside the patio door. Stick-on...can be removed and relocated easily.

All amp settings are through the RA770 DSP.

You may also notice in the port cockpit picture that there are no step courtesy lights. I removed them and had the holes patched with the intention of putting something more modern and more subtle. Turns out I like the clean look, and the light they provide is not necessary at all, so I may not replace them. Wiring is all there.

 

[Richard Carlisle]

Some pictures...

Zones on the RA770:
View attachment 152966

Amps:
View attachment 152968

View attachment 152969

Flybridge speakers (Fusion Signature Series 3 6.5" Coaxial + Fusion Signature Component Tweeters):
View attachment 152970

Flybridge sub (Fusion Signature 10" fits original cutout):
View attachment 152971

Cockpit speakers (Fusion Signature Series 3 8.8" Coaxial. I filled-in the holes from the original component tweeters):
View attachment 152972

The 8.8s really sound good. You can also see a Fusion wireless remote beside the patio door. Stick-on...can be removed and relocated easily.

All amp settings are through the RA770 DSP.

You may also notice in the port cockpit picture that there are no step courtesy lights. I removed them and had the holes patched with the intention of putting something more modern and more subtle. Turns out I like the clean look, and the light they provide is not necessary at all, so I may not replace them. Wiring is all there.

View attachment 152973

Thanks or the pics. I think what might be going on is someone replaced the am-s at some point, then sometime later replaced the head units and speakers with JL Audio. The amps are not JL Audio. Currently the head units are wired directly to the speakers with no amp and no sub. This kind of works for me so this project is down the list a ways.

 

[saopm]

Another one for the brain trust. So I have never really thought my analog gauges were reliable. When i've checked with others with similar motors they say their temp readings sit right at 160 mine never has. Mine tend to sit around 170. Once in a while the port motor will approach 178 or so however the starboard one never waivers .This is generally happens about 2 hours into cruising. If I slow down for a few mins and get back on plane it would drop back down to 170 and sit there for a few more hours. Have serviced the coolers and raw water system and no change same behavior year after year. This prompted me to install a nmea temp sensor into the coolant port on top of the exhaust manifold. When bringing the boat to her winter home this weekend (3 hour run) same thing happened however the digital temp sensor said my coolant temp at the manifold was in the 155-158 range. I also shot the manifold with an ir gun and it said the exterior of the manifold was in the 170's. I'm in the midst of replacing the coolant and maybe the thermostat as well but i doubt the thermostat is not functioning as the nmea sensor says its within range.

Also note my gauges have been replaced in the past to fix a different issue. Any ideas?

My temps are steady at the 170 range. However, I have seen it spike one time after I removed the cap and tested the coolant. As soon as I came off plane the temp dropped back to normal and no spikes there after. I’m thinking I introduced air into the system when I removed the cap and it took a cycling to run it out. At least that is my guess. A quick thing to eliminate is the cap by switching with the other engine. Otherwise, if your impellers, coolers and heat exchanger are good, there is not much else. At least other than your intake screen and exhaust mixers. Then again it could be sender or garage related.

 

[saopm]

Some pictures...

Zones on the RA770:
View attachment 152966

Amps:
View attachment 152968

View attachment 152969

Flybridge speakers (Fusion Signature Series 3 6.5" Coaxial + Fusion Signature Component Tweeters):
View attachment 152970

Flybridge sub (Fusion Signature 10" fits original cutout):
View attachment 152971

Cockpit speakers (Fusion Signature Series 3 8.8" Coaxial. I filled-in the holes from the original component tweeters):
View attachment 152972

The 8.8s really sound good. You can also see a Fusion wireless remote beside the patio door. Stick-on...can be removed and relocated easily.

All amp settings are through the RA770 DSP.

You may also notice in the port cockpit picture that there are no step courtesy lights. I removed them and had the holes patched with the intention of putting something more modern and more subtle. Turns out I like the clean look, and the light they provide is not necessary at all, so I may not replace them. Wiring is all there.

View attachment 152973

The RA770 is on my winter list. I already ran two 4 chanel RCA cables and installed a 5 chanel amp to run the bridge and cockpit. I will zone the salon and stateroom as well. The 8.8’s in the cockpit sounds like the right upgrade to get a fuller sound. The bridge could use a second set of 6.5, but no where to put them.

 

[Irie308]

So I found the reason for the higher temp on my port motor.

 

[techmitch]

So I found the reason for the higher temp on my port motor.

So glad you went there. Some one on here a couple of years ago, posted (with pic's) about doing those as maintenance and it brought back memories of the old ford V-6's that had 2 T/stats.
I thought about that when I was following you temp issue post but I dare not speak up with little to no diesel experience.
That's great that you got a handle on it so you don't have to wonder/worry about it this winter and deal with it next season.

Good job Sir.

 

[Alex F]

So I found the reason for the higher temp on my port motor.

Hey Dean,

I had quite an opposite experience. My STBD side was running cooler and when I had the thermostats replaced, the STBD side one was in pieces, indicating that it was "always open". Hens, running cooler then the PORT side.

This was my lesson learned when taking mechanic's recommendation not to bother changing thermostats unless something is wrong. I've learned that this is totally wrong recommendation.