420/44 DB Owners Club

[AEO]

28V panel is new to me (12V / typo?), but assuming the light switches are off and you have upgraded some or all of the lights to LED, do you have an LED dimmer, color controller, or similar attached to the circuit?

LED lights use a PWM driver to control their brightness and they can cause audio hum. I believe it is the capacitors specifically that do it. Better / more expensive PWM design and components permit frequencies that stay out of the audio range. Unfortunately most LED module designs are optimized for low cost. The trade-off is they can be noisy in both the audio and VHF frequency bands.

I have purchased all my bulbs and components from either Marine Beam or Apex and so far haven't noticed any issues.

There is a hum in the speakers when the generator is running that I hear at times though. I just upgraded all the amps, speakers, and head unit to Fusion Apollo/Signature so I need to check again.

Good catch .. Yes 12V not 28V ..

I was thinking the same so I removed all of the LED’s of which there aren’t many and which didn’t make any difference. But as a precaution I’m gradually going to go back to incandescent bulbs.

 

[bajturner]

Could catch .. Yes 12V not 28V ..

I was thinking the same so I removed all of the LED’s of which there aren’t many and which didn’t make any difference. But as a precaution I’m gradually going to go back to incandescent bulbs.

They shouldn't cause hum when off though. If there is a hum with the breaker on and all the lights off, there must be something else getting powered that is causing the interference...

 

[Irie308]

I had a similar hum but it was only on the interior speakers. I ended up replacing the small amp that runs the internal speakers which fixed the issue.

 

[AEO]

They shouldn't cause hum when off though. If there is a hum with the breaker on and all the lights off, there must be something else getting powered that is causing the interference...

Yes, hum is there with breaker on and lights off. Perhaps there is something else in that same circuit?

I just had a thought about the underwater lights. I wonder if they’re in the same cct?

 

[AEO]

I had a similar hum but it was only on the interior speakers. I ended up replacing the small amp that runs the internal speakers which fixed the issue.

Surprisingly the hum for me is most pronounced on the flybridge speakers but is audible on all

 

[Tomco]

That's correct. The thruster 24V bank is charged only when 110VAC is available (via shore power or the generator) to the 24VDC battery charger.

Thanks for the confirmation, Alex. Something I just hadn't anticipated but will be more careful next time.

 

[bajturner]

We returned from a 7 week trip thru the Trent-Severn waterway - which consisted of 43 locks in one direction. We regularly did about 6 locks a day. During the locking process (in and out) I used the bow thruster so the Admiral could reach the lines and on exiting. After about 4 travel days (no shore power during this time) I found a low voltage code (this is thru the inverter that is connected to these batteries, the monitor at the switch panel provides the battery data and the alarm code). While the at rest voltage reading was 24.6v (12.3v per battery), when using the bow thrusters the high initial draw would pull them down below the 21v low voltage threshold and set the low voltage code. They progressively just got worse.

I had assumed (yes, I know) that when the boat was underway (without the generator running) the alternators were charging the battery banks ... I didn't think to distinguish the 12v from the 24v banks. I went thru the wiring diagram, and if I understand it correctly, the alternators do NOT provide any charging to the bow thruster batteries. This hasn't been a problem up until this point when we were away from shore power for an extended period and used the thrusters more than normal.

Intuitively it makes sense that the alternators do not charge the 24v bank, I consider the thrusters a safety device and hadn't considered they wouldn't be charged under way. Is it correct that that the 24v bank is NOT charged during engine operation?

/T.

Hey Tom, one other thing to consider. The mixed-use (inverter and thrusters) of the 24V bank may also be a culprit. For thrusters, typically starter batteries are the better choice as the high-load, short-duration current draw more closely resembles starting than lower-current, long-duration house loads. Conversely, the inverter is betted suited to be powered by deep-cycle batteries where they are often discharged to a lower voltage. Dual-purpose may be the best choice, but in reality they are closer to starter battery. High current draw is not great for deep-cycle batteries, and deep discharge is not good for starter batteries.

Given the mixed use, the lifetime of either type of battery would likely be compromised. Depending on the type of batteries, if the 24V bank is getting drawn down from 24.6V to 21V under load, it may be a sign the batteries are getting weak (essentially a load test). 12.3V per is about 60-70% charge for most flooded or AGM batteries. It should still be ok under load at that state of charge. It could also be the voltage drop under high load is at expected levels but the inverter is overly sensitive. Regardless, the mixed-use could mean the lifetime is as low as 3 or 4 years, I think.

Something to consider, perhaps.

 

[Tomco]

Hey Tom, one other thing to consider. The mixed-use (inverter and thrusters) of the 24V bank may also be a culprit. For thrusters, typically starter batteries are the better choice as the high-load, short-duration current draw more closely resembles starting than lower-current, long-duration house loads. Conversely, the inverter is betted suited to be powered by deep-cycle batteries where they are often discharged to a lower voltage. Dual-purpose may be the best choice, but in reality they are closer to starter battery. High current draw is not great for deep-cycle batteries, and deep discharge is not good for starter batteries.

Given the mixed use, the lifetime of either type of battery would likely be compromised. Depending on the type of batteries, if the 24V bank is getting drawn down from 24.6V to 21V under load, it may be a sign the batteries are getting weak (essentially a load test). 12.3V per is about 60-70% charge for most flooded or AGM batteries. It should still be ok under load at that state of charge. It could also be the voltage drop under high load is at expected levels but the inverter is overly sensitive. Regardless, the mixed-use could mean the lifetime is as low as 3 or 4 years, I think.

Something to consider, perhaps.

Hi Brian, the mixed use has its pros and cons for sure. The SeaRay wiring choices are not the ones I would have made and it can be frustrating. We have not had any problems for the past 4 years, it was only on this trip, one that required use of the bow thruster often AND having set up the boat to be 'off-grid' we were not on shore power for extended periods of time. Normally, it isn't a problem. Concur that if I leave it as-is, I will likely see decreased battery life-time. Now that I know I manage those batteries better if I do a trip like this again.

Hope you guys are keeping well.

/T.

 

[Mjresq4]

I used white top coat and had it color marched at Ace hardware. I took a color sample from paint chip. Mixed it with west systems resin and the slow hardener. I cant read the formula on top of the can as it’s covered with paint. It’s been a few seasons and still looks great

Mark.60 and Tenacious, I pulled a chip from the bilge area and had a local store color match for me. They added the following; to one Qt of the White Marine Top Side. 10/10 perfect match for my bilge.

 

[AEO]

I’d like to service the oil in my GHS

Surprisingly the hum for me is most pronounced on the flybridge speakers but is audible on all

Just a follow up for curiosity. I traced that interference to the underwater lights. On the upside, I now have an alarm should I accidentally switch them on during the day.

 

[AEO]

When you say it’s a matter of getting extra power to operate them what did you mean?
I ask because I’m getting ready to increase size if my tabs by attaching larger plates to my factory tabs. They will be 2” wider (side to side)and 3 1/2” longer, or 26” x 15 1/2”. They have 2” drop fins. Another member said they made same size add on plate and still worked with the original single cylinder.

How did you go with your larger trim tabs?

 

[Irie308]

Curious if anyone has ever tackled adding a sea water washdown at the bow. Find I use a fair amount of fresh water to clean the anchor in places we frequent.

 

[Tomco]

Curious if anyone has ever tackled adding a sea water washdown at the bow. Find I use a fair amount of fresh water to clean the anchor in places we frequent.

Hey Dean, I added one, for the exact reason you mentioned - not using our fresh water. Do you have a specific question?

 

[Irie308]

Hey Dean, I added one, for the exact reason you mentioned - not using our fresh water. Do you have a specific question?

Hey Tom, Yes curious how you ran the line, assuming it ran from ER to the bow. Also did you tap into a strainer, pump install etc. Pretty much how did you do the whole install...LOL.

 

[Tomco]

Hey Tom, Yes curious how you ran the line, assuming it ran from ER to the bow. Also did you tap into a strainer, pump install etc. Pretty much how did you do the whole install...LOL.

I connected mine in 2020 and it has been working great. t

Pump: I had a spare Jabsco pump (60psi, 4gpm) and mounted in in the ER beside the AC pump. It is mounted it on a board that bridged over the sump area;

Plumbing: I tee'd into the AC line - I didn't add a valve (or check valve), there was some discussion on this forum about the possibility of pulling the water from the AC line (I think the discussion was around a water maker). For us, we never have the air running when pulling up the anchor so this is a pretty low risk; From the pump I ran a new line to the water manifold under the galley floor (had to drill thru the fire wall) - disconnected the anchor wash from the manifold and connected it to the new line from the pump.

Capped line from manifold

Connection with new line from pump

Electrical: I added a breaker (Carling AD1-B0-34-615-4G1-C) in the 12v panel for the wash pump.

One other thing, I changed the valve in the anchor locker to a quarter turn model. Makes it much quicker to turn the water on/off for the admiral instead of the (seemingly) 100 turns the old valve required.

Any questions let me know.

Cheers,
Tom

edit: added pictures

 

[RBB]

Does anyone make/stock the saloon windshield shade cover? Was wanting to purchase one that blocks all the sun light.

 

[Richard Carlisle]

Does anyone make/stock the saloon windshield shade cover? Was wanting to purchase one that blocks all the sun light.

I would guess that it’s a custom item. i’d imagine snap location even from the factory isn’t exact from. Oat to boat. Our boat had a mesh cover and we were baking inside the boat. the sunbrella Cover made a huge difference.

 

[Richard Carlisle]

Speaker mystery. the boat appears to have 2 speakers in the salon ceiling and two in the master by the head of the bed. Does anyone know where these terminate. If I were to guess I’d say in the media cabinet under the TV. It’s a mess back there and haven’t really tried sorting it out yet.

The boat has 2 JL Audio Units. 1 is under the TV and is wired to speakers in the stern cockpit. The other is upstairs and wired to it’s own speakers. There are subwoofers, but I can’t find amps anywhere so I think the PO just wired the speakers directly to the head units.

I was thinking of either 1) adding another head unit under the TV and connect to the interior speakers or 2) connect channel 2 of the existing head unit to the interior salon speakers. Channel 1 would be the cockpit and channel 2 would be the salon.

 

[RBB]

I would guess that it’s a custom item. i’d imagine snap location even from the factory isn’t exact from. Oat to boat. Our boat had a mesh cover and we were baking inside the boat. the sunbrella Cover made a huge difference.

who made your sunbrella cover

 

[Richard Carlisle]

who made your sunbrella cover

There were 2 of them on the boat. Any canvas shop can do it. They will make a template out of plastic sheet the fit the snaps on location to match your existing snaps. A larger shop may already have a template on the shelf, but the snaps will have to be fitted to match your boat.