420/44 DB Owners Club

[Flix2]

Help me with keeping the batteries charged! The saga continues. My aftercoolers are shot. The QSC 8.3 cooler ETA is October! The generator heat exchanger is removed for service. I really need to find some way to charge the batteries. Thank you in advance!

As some of you may recall, I won't have 220/50-amp in my dock for another 2 months (due to permits & plans for the whole house/dock remodel). My 2008 44 has an isolation transformer to keep me from using my single 110/30-amp dock power. I'd to know what my easiest or best option is to maintain the batteries for the next 2 months. We won't need to use A/C, stove, heater, water heater, or any of the fridges, just LED lights occasionally. I have 4x AGM 195 AH 4D (house/gen/engine) battereis and 2X flooded gp 31 thruster batteries. Please advise:

1. Use my little 2amp auto maintenance charger. The 4 house batteries are 4x195=780AH in parrallel. Is it okay just to leave these connected to one of the batteries constantly? Can I connect one of these 2amp charger to the thruster batteries one at a time, since they are in series. Do I need to the chargers with higher AH such as the NOCO Genius 10?
   
   
2. I also have the big old style 'automatic' 10amp chargers but I don't think those have float maintaince mode. Are fine if I disconnect them when the batteries are full?
3. Can I heck into the 2 boat chargers with 110v extension cords, bypassing the isolation tranformer? Can I use the the 110v 15amp outlet (vs the 110v 30amp outlet)? The ProNautic charges the thruster batteries and the Inteli-Power charges the 4 gp 4D batteries.
4. 
   

 

[Flix2]

Update on the aftercoolers.

They were never serviced since the 44 was made in 2008. After the caps were removed, the first mechanic thought they were 'good enough' for just some outside cleaning without removing the housing or the cores. After the advice from the wonderful members here, I told the mechanic to take them apart for inspection. He was unable to remove the port one after spending over 8 hours! The engine room was filled with diesel, gear oil, and sea water. I spent 2 days cleaning after him.

One of the members here recommended another mechanic who was able to remove the port unit in about 30 minutes without a drop of pollution. Unfortunately, the radiator shop said the coolers were too far gone and refused to service them. I was hoping with get a pair of new ones from SBMarine and happened to talk to great Tony Athens. He said there is not known ETA for the new ones since Cummins has changed to another supplier. He kindly agreed to look the old ones in person to see they are somehow savageable. Unfortunately, I was unable to retrive them.

In addtion, there were lots of impeller fragments in the generator heat exchanger. My stern thruster is still not working but Vetus is helping me with trouble shooting. A marine electrician has done some survey but has been too busy to return for further repairs.

The start of my journey of big boat ownership has been a little rough and my summer plans will have to changed. With the help of the fellow members here, I have learned a lot. I am confident that the boat will be in ship shape in a few months. Here are the pics of the cooler from the radiator shop and the fragments from the gen exhanger.

 

[Carpediem44DB]

Wow Pete! What a bummer!
I think if it were me I would just install temporary 110 plugs on my charger cords and run a heavy duty extension cord from the dock to the chargers.
It’s sad that the POs ignored the factory recommendations on servicing the cooling systems. At least it will soon be ship shape and good to go.
Carpe Diem

 

[boaterholic]

Ouch! I hate that you're having such a rough and expensive start!
I would get a good quality multi stage charger with float mode to keep batteries topped off without cooking them and plug it into an extension cord going to your standard 110 outlet on the dock and connect to the batteries. The engine batteries should be connected in parallel - 2 batteries for each engine. You'd be charging two at a time, and change battery charger from one set to the other once a week. I think for the thruster batteries unless you get a different charger capable of 24 volts, you'll have to separate them and charge one at a time.

 

[boaterholic]

Talking about generators, can someone tell me how much fuel burn these 9kw gen sets typically burn per hour? I'm sure it's been posted but while I search I figured I'd ask again.
Thanks

 

[Jeff Carrick]

I can absolutely feel your pain!! I was advised, when looking for a coastal cruiser by mechanic to try to get Cummins engines because they are “bulletproof “! That had a lot to do with purchasing our 06 44DB. It only had 700hrs on the engines and everything seemed great!! Full RPM at WOT during survey as well. We even rolled the dice and took it on a shake down cruise in March from Fort Lauderdale to Bahia Honda state park. It ran beautifully at 175 degrees at 2200 rpm cruising at 25kts!!! All good right??? Well I was instructed by the Cummins engine surveyor that because the seller couldn’t or wouldn’t supply any service records, that I should do the cooling system maintenance. So I did. That’s when I found out that one after cooler was shot and one heat exchanger needed to be replaced. I was able to find the after cooler used and repay the exchanger. That’s also when I found out the virtually all Cummins parts were extremely back ordered and some had no eta for delivery. 2 months and 8k later she is back in the water. Damn!! What a nightmare. I strongly recommend buying the strainer cap freshwater flush kit from SBM!! I did and now every time I leave her both engines are full of freshwater!!! No more scale or algae!! Now I am addi a t-valve so I can do the same for the generator!! Good Luck!!!

 

[Carpediem44DB]

I strongly encourage you guys to also install a salt neutralizer injection system as well as fresh water flush, I put one on the 44 and all I did prior to shut down is use a key fob to remotely open a solenoid valve and the engine freshwater pumps would syphon a few ounces of neutralizer and when I saw the exhaust begin to foam I shut down the engines. Since I usually ran the generator when ever running the mains Each engine got treated.
It really is difficult to understand how some owners of these very expensive vessels neglect one of the most expensive yet relatively simple of systems. If maintained with in the recommended schedule these systems should last a very long time. I'm in the middle of building am injection system for the 506. I plan to use Salt Weapon, a new to market neutralizer that is a much thicker product so I will be incorporating a pump to inject the product into the strainers. Ill post pics when I get it built and installed.
Carpe Diem

 

[Flix2]

I can absolutely feel your pain!! I was advised, when looking for a coastal cruiser by mechanic to try to get Cummins engines because they are “bulletproof “! That had a lot to do with purchasing our 06 44DB. It only had 700hrs on the engines and everything seemed great!! Full RPM at WOT during survey as well. We even rolled the dice and took it on a shake down cruise in March from Fort Lauderdale to Bahia Honda state park. It ran beautifully at 175 degrees at 2200 rpm cruising at 25kts!!! All good right??? Well I was instructed by the Cummins engine surveyor that because the seller couldn’t or wouldn’t supply any service records, that I should do the cooling system maintenance. So I did. That’s when I found out that one after cooler was shot and one heat exchanger needed to be replaced. I was able to find the after cooler used and repay the exchanger. That’s also when I found out the virtually all Cummins parts were extremely back ordered and some had no eta for delivery. 2 months and 8k later she is back in the water. Damn!! What a nightmare. I strongly recommend buying the strainer cap freshwater flush kit from SBM!! I did and now every time I leave her both engines are full of freshwater!!! No more scale or algae!! Now I am addi a t-valve so I can do the same for the generator!! Good Luck!!!

Jeff,

After this ordeal, I plan the exact same thing. I think it's $300 a piece but much cheaper than what I am going through. I hate to work after long days of fun but it may be small price to pay for more worry-free fun in the future.

Flix.

 

[Jeff Carrick]

Salt-away has a valve option for flushing outboards. Would that work in this application? I have the mechanism, but used it in-line to wash down boat with spray nozzle. Lmk. Thanks!

 

[Jeff Carrick]

Jeff,

After this ordeal, I plan the exact same thing. I think it's $300 a piece but much cheaper than what I am going through. I hate to work after long days of fun but it may be small price to pay for more worry-free fun in the future.

Flix.

I don’t necessarily do it after the fun, however if I know I am not going out for a week or so I go within the next few days and flush everything.

 

[Flix2]

I strongly encourage you guys to also install a salt neutralizer injection system as well as fresh water flush, I put one on the 44 and all I did prior to shut down is use a key fob to remotely open a solenoid valve and the engine freshwater pumps would syphon a few ounces of neutralizer and when I saw the exhaust begin to foam I shut down the engines. Since I usually ran the generator when ever running the mains Each engine got treated.
It really is difficult to understand how some owners of these very expensive vessels neglect one of the most expensive yet relatively simple of systems. If maintained with in the recommended schedule these systems should last a very long time. I'm in the middle of building am injection system for the 506. I plan to use Salt Weapon, a new to market neutralizer that is a much thicker product so I will be incorporating a pump to inject the product into the strainers. Ill post pics when I get it built and installed.
Carpe Diem

The salt neuralizer system sounds great. I try googling this but can't find something with general consensus. Would you mind telling us what system you used. Is it something I can buy off the shelf? Thanks!

Flix

 

[Flix2]

Ouch! I hate that you're having such a rough and expensive start!
I would get a good quality multi stage charger with float mode to keep batteries topped off without cooking them and plug it into an extension cord going to your standard 110 outlet on the dock and connect to the batteries. The engine batteries should be connected in parallel - 2 batteries for each engine. You'd be charging two at a time, and change battery charger from one set to the other once a week. I think for the thruster batteries unless you get a different charger capable of 24 volts, you'll have to separate them and charge one at a time.

Thank you for the reassurance! I will order a good unit.

 

[Carpediem44DB]

I’m building my own, I bought a home built one for the 44 from a member here back in 2016. When I get mine working I’ll share the details and if you want one I can build you one to install. Your problem will be where to put it. Your boat is a five pound bag stuffed with ten pounds of crap
Carpe Diem

 

[Flix2]

Wow Pete! What a bummer!
I think if it were me I would just install temporary 110 plugs on my charger cords and run a heavy duty extension cord from the dock to the chargers.
It’s sad that the POs ignored the factory recommendations on servicing the cooling systems. At least it will soon be ship shape and good to go.
Carpe Diem

Glad you think it's OK to install a 110 plug. I could find other doing this. I will use a maintenance with float capability for now and intall the plug later.
Flix

 

[Flix2]

BTW, I understand the risk of electrolysis etc for bypassing the isolation transformer. This is a temporary necessity. Once shore power is properly set up, I will use the boat's 50 amp cord. Flix

 

[Shaps]

I strongly encourage you guys to also install a salt neutralizer injection system as well as fresh water flush, I put one on the 44 and all I did prior to shut down is use a key fob to remotely open a solenoid valve and the engine freshwater pumps would syphon a few ounces of neutralizer and when I saw the exhaust begin to foam I shut down the engines. Since I usually ran the generator when ever running the mains Each engine got treated.
It really is difficult to understand how some owners of these very expensive vessels neglect one of the most expensive yet relatively simple of systems. If maintained with in the recommended schedule these systems should last a very long time. I'm in the middle of building am injection system for the 506. I plan to use Salt Weapon, a new to market neutralizer that is a much thicker product so I will be incorporating a pump to inject the product into the strainers. Ill post pics when I get it built and installed.
Carpe Diem

@Carpediem44DB , slight thread hijack here, apologies,
Im interested in your salt neutralizer injection system as well, but curious why you think that is necessary on top of fresh water flushing?
I redid my cooling system when I bought the boat last year and will do anything I can to extend the life of the components.

 

[ZZ13]

@Carpediem44DB , slight thread hijack here, apologies,
Im interested in your salt neutralizer injection system as well, but curious why you think that is necessary on top of fresh water flushing?
I redid my cooling system when I bought the boat last year and will do anything I can to extend the life of the components.

Not sure if this is practical for many but if you run your engines to temp every two weeks or so you won’t get any scale buildup. I am fortunate to be able to use my boat regularly and I have never had to clear any of the coolers water side for the 8 years I’ve had it in salt water. In the event I do have a long stretch of non use planned, I just pull the bottom aftercooler zinc to drain the saltwater out of everything. My real prevention area is the air side of the aftercoolers and I pull those every two years for disassembly, cleaning, greasing.

That said, I’m sure freshwater flushing is easier once it’s set up.

 

[Shaps]

Not sure if this is practical for many but if you run your engines to temp every two weeks or so you won’t get any scale buildup. I am fortunate to be able to use my boat regularly and I have never had to clear any of the coolers water side for the 8 years I’ve had it in salt water. In the event I do have a long stretch of non use planned, I just pull the bottom aftercooler zinc to drain the saltwater out of everything. My real prevention area is the air side of the aftercoolers and I pull those every two years for disassembly, cleaning, greasing.

That said, I’m sure freshwater flushing is easier once it’s set up.

I bought the strainer caps from seaboard and they are super easy to use. It's part of our cleanup/closeup for the weekend. Hook up a hose and run for 5 mins each engine.

 

[ttmott]

Salt-away has a valve option for flushing outboards. Would that work in this application? I have the mechanism, but used it in-line to wash down boat with spray nozzle. Lmk. Thanks!

My boat has a Salt-Away injection system; actually three systems. I haven't used it however; the boat is used too much to realize any positive gain from my perspective. Now if I used the boat once a month then maybe it would be of benefit. To use the system there is a salt-away injector that a garden hose is connected to supply fresh water and that is connected to the interface(s) in the lazzerette. Close the seacock, turn on the fresh water through the Salt-Away injection unit then start the engine and run for ten or fifteen minutes while watching the engine temps - done.... For my application the Salt-Away product cost is quite high.

 

[Carpediem44DB]

BTW, I understand the risk of electrolysis etc for bypassing the isolation transformer. This is a temporary necessity. Once shore power is properly set up, I will use the boat's 50 amp cord. Flix

Here is another possible fix for you Pete, Replace your single 50 amp service with two 30s like most of us have or had on our 44s. You may find it more convenient in the future to find 30 amp services where you visit and you wont have to deal with the hassle of replacing your dock service outlet. I have not researched the cost of the Isolating transformers but may be worth it in the long run. Having 2 30s really gives you way more versatility. I would think that if your fifty amp cord is in good shape, you can sell it easily. Those cords are quite expensive.
Rusty