420/44 DB Owners Club

[Flix2]

Pics of my 2008 starboard aftercooler (port looks similar) here. The mechanic thought they look very good for first-time-ever service. He will soak the endcaps in muriatic acid overnight but only cleaned the core by brushing it with muriatic acid & rinse with water. I was hoping for pulling out the core to clear and pressure test before reassembling. What do you think?


The mechanic only found one O-ring on each end of the coolers but this picture from Seaboard shows 2 (#11) of them on one end. I called the parts person at SB and was told the newer QSC needs 3 big O-rings: 2 on one end and 1 on the other. Could someone clarify? Thank you!

 

[Jeff Carrick]

I just went through all of that. I have a 2006 with 700 hours on it I am the third owner. Evidently no one has pulled them apart before. One side was good the other was not had to seal off a couple tubes in order for it not to leak. The O-rings are expensive and can be hard to find. It is a must that they pull it out of the housing and pressure test! Otherwise, you risk salt water mixing with your air into your cylinder heads causing catastrophic failure!!! the whole process cost me about seven grand. Had to end up buying a new heat exchanger core and a used after cooler core. I also had to replace both aluminum crush rings in the after coolers.

 

[Irie308]

Hey All, My outlet behind the kitchen sink stopped working over the winter. I had a caframo heater plugged into it on the counter. Similar to previous years. No other outlet seems to be affected. checked both gfi's in the heads and they are fine. Any idea as to where this one is connected?

 

[Tomco]

Hey All, My outlet behind the kitchen sink stopped working over the winter. I had a caframo heater plugged into it on the counter. Similar to previous years. No other outlet seems to be affected. checked both gfi's in the heads and they are fine. Any idea as to where this one is connected?

Dean, just happen to have the Owner's manual open. Here is the schematic for the AC System. I've highlighted the outlet and you can see it follows a GFI plug for the galley - so that it probably the one that has tripped. Now, saying that, I cannot picture where the GFI plug physically is ... if you find it, pls let me know. A good thing to know.

 

[AEO]

Dean, just happen to have the Owner's manual open. Here is the schematic for the AC System. I've highlighted the outlet and you can see it follows a GFI plug for the galley - so that it probably the one that has tripped. Now, saying that, I cannot picture where the GFI plug physically is ... if you find it, pls let me know. A good thing to know.

View attachment 105952

If I remember correctly it’s in the master cabin toilet cabinet behind the mirror.

 

[Tomco]

Electrical questions - planning to add a battery monitor on the house (port) batteries. I know the shut goes close to the batteries and is the first point/connection on the neg line from the batteries. I started poking around on the weekend for a mounting location and doing a little cable tracing. The schematics from Sea Ray don't show the battery charger (on any diagram!) and it looks like the neg off the batteries heads across (to Stbd) and forward. Couple questions:
1. in the diagram below, is it correct that the charger is between the batteries and the Main DC Neg Bus (red box)?
2. physically, where is the Main DC Neg Bus located on the boat?

 

[Tomco]

If I remember correctly it’s in the master cabin toilet cabinet behind the mirror.

I think that is the Master Head GFI ... a different circuit. Since I can't say where the Galley GFI is physically located I'm not saying you're wrong ... but I've only seen one GFI in the master head and I know from testing that Master outlet is tied to the Stbd Systems breaker.

I just noticed the following statement in the owners manual:
"The GFI receptacles are out of sight and wired in-line with the exposed Vmar receptacles throughout the yacht. This allows your yacht to have an elegant exposed receptacle while still providing protection from shock hazards."

So, while the two GFI's are 'exposed' in the respective medicine cabinets ... the galley one might be providing an elegant look behind a bulkhead!

edited for clarity/accuracy

 

[ttmott]

Electrical questions - planning to add a battery monitor on the house (port) batteries. I know the shut goes close to the batteries and is the first point/connection on the neg line from the batteries. I started poking around on the weekend for a mounting location and doing a little cable tracing. The schematics from Sea Ray don't show the battery charger (on any diagram!) and it looks like the neg off the batteries heads across (to Stbd) and forward. Couple questions:
1. in the diagram below, is it correct that the charger is between the batteries and the Main DC Neg Bus (red box)?
2. physically, where is the Main DC Neg Bus located on the boat?

View attachment 105953

First take a look at the Victron Smartshunt https://www.victronenergy.com/battery-monitors/smart-battery-shunt . It integrates via Bluetooth with an App on your portable device so you don't need any other connectivity unless you want NMEA 2000, IP, or other Victron equipment integration (which it can also support). Very comprehensive device and reasonably priced.
The shunt as you noted must be the first device off of the battery negative terminals; nothing else should be between the battery and shunt otherwise you won't be measuring what that wiring contributes or takes from the battery. First I would remove the main battery negative wire from wherever it is connected and install that on the shunt battery side. That cable is usually connected to the boat's primary ground buss. Then make up another battery cable and install that between the shunt load side and wherever you removed the original battery cable (ground buss). If your charger negative wire or any other wiring on the negative side is direct to the battery it needs to be relocated to the house side of the shunt. The bottom line is not to have any wires or circuits between the battery negative and shunt.....
Hope this helps..

 

[AEO]

We are going to replace the galley fridge, once again what has everyone replaced with

I went for the Vitrifrigo. Went straight in.

 

[AEO]

I think that is the Master Head GFI ... a different circuit. Since I can't say where the Galley GFI is physically located I'm not saying you're wrong ... but I've only seen one GFI in the master head and I know from testing that Master outlet is tied to the Stbd Systems breaker.

I just noticed the following statement in the owners manual:
"The GFI receptacles are out of sight and wired in-line with the exposed Vmar receptacles throughout the yacht. This allows your yacht to have an elegant exposed receptacle while still providing protection from shock hazards."

So, while the two GFI's are 'exposed' in the respective medicine cabinets ... the galley one might be providing an elegant look behind a bulkhead!

edited for clarity/accuracy

You might be right, I may be confused with the stbd.. I very vaguely remember seeing one in the cabinet behind the sink .. But I could be wrong there too ..

 

[Irie308]

Dean, just happen to have the Owner's manual open. Here is the schematic for the AC System. I've highlighted the outlet and you can see it follows a GFI plug for the galley - so that it probably the one that has tripped. Now, saying that, I cannot picture where the GFI plug physically is ... if you find it, pls let me know. A good thing to know.

View attachment 105952

Dean, just happen to have the Owner's manual open. Here is the schematic for the AC System. I've highlighted the outlet and you can see it follows a GFI plug for the galley - so that it probably the one that has tripped. Now, saying that, I cannot picture where the GFI plug physically is ... if you find it, pls let me know. A good thing to know.

View attachment 105952

Thanks Tom, There must be a gfi under the sink or one of those cabinets. Will do a search today.

 

[Tomco]

First take a look at the Victron Smartshunt https://www.victronenergy.com/battery-monitors/smart-battery-shunt . It integrates via Bluetooth with an App on your portable device so you don't need any other connectivity unless you want NMEA 2000, IP, or other Victron equipment integration. Very comprehensive device and reasonably priced.
The shunt as you noted must be the first device off of the battery negative terminals; nothing else should be between the battery and shunt. First I would remove the main battery negative wire from wherever it is connected and install that on the shunt battery side. That cable is usually connected to the boat's primary ground buss. Then make up another battery cable and install that between the shunt load side and wherever you removed the original battery cable (ground buss). If your charger negative wire or any other wiring on the negative side is direct to the battery it needs to be relocated to the house side of the shunt. The bottom line is not to have any wires or circuits between the battery negative and shunt.....
Hope this helps..

Thanks Tom - I understand your explanation. I was thinking to do exactly as you outlined but if the main battery neg line goes from the battery to the charger (mid-ship) then I will cut and add the shunt near the batteries (there looks to be enough slack). Will have more time this weekend to trace.

I purchased the Victron 712 - this is one of the Victron smart battery monitors (bluetooth) and has the remote display. I might hold mounting the display and try the bluetooth but I'm leaning towards installing it.

 

[ttmott]

Thanks Tom - I understand your explanation. I was thinking to do exactly as you outlined but if the main battery neg line goes from the battery to the charger (mid-ship) then I will cut and add the shunt near the batteries (there looks to be enough slack). Will have more time this weekend to trace.

I purchased the Victron 712 - this is one of the Victron smart battery monitors (bluetooth) and has the remote display. I might hold mounting the display and try the bluetooth but I'm leaning towards installing it.

I think you will find all of the battery grounds (negative cabling) including the charger negative wiring connect to a large copper bar ground buss. Mine is located next to the battery banks below the Main Disconnect Panel. From that buss then wiring routes to the boat's bonding system, engine and generator ground, AC power ground, charger ground, remote ground buss', and a plethora of other grounding/bonding connections.

 

[bbwhitejr]

Thanks Tom, There must be a gfi under the sink or one of those cabinets. Will do a search today.

There is a GFCI in the galley in one of the cabinets behind the sink.

Bennett

 

[Flix2]

I just went through all of that. I have a 2006 with 700 hours on it I am the third owner. Evidently no one has pulled them apart before. One side was good the other was not had to seal off a couple tubes in order for it not to leak. The O-rings are expensive and can be hard to find. It is a must that they pull it out of the housing and pressure test! Otherwise, you risk salt water mixing with your air into your cylinder heads causing catastrophic failure!!! the whole process cost me about seven grand. Had to end up buying a new heat exchanger core and a used after cooler core. I also had to replace both aluminum crush rings in the after coolers.

After reading this, I seriously regret letting the mechanic do the 'cleaning' after removing the caps. Our initial agreement was to take the 2 coolers to a well known shop to pull the cores for cleaning and pressure testing. Instead, he opened the caps and did the cleaning. I balked at his plan to put the old hardened O-rings back. The O-ring kits from SB Marine are pricey at $160 a pair. I think you are exactly right. I will have the shop servied this properly. Money wasted for the few hours of cleaning but worth it in the long run.

 

[Tomco]

There is a GFCI in the galley in one of the cabinets behind the sink.

Bennett

On mine, the outlet in the cabinet behind the sink is/was for the coffee maker and is not a gfi receptacle. Is this the same receptacle you are referring to or are you referring to a different cabinet? Per the Sea Ray wiring diagram, there appears to be a gfi receptacle before this 'coffee maker' one.

Only other spot that is accessible (but elegantly hidden) might be that little cupboard just above the stove on the outboard side ... just guessing now ...

 

[Flix2]

I went for the Vitrifrigo. Went straight in.

Mine looks like this with a Vitrifrigo combo of top fridge and bottom (freezer & fridge) drawers. Not sure if the former owner upgraded or an option from the factory. The microwave is located by the sink.

 

[Carpediem44DB]

Pics of my 2008 starboard aftercooler (port looks similar) here. The mechanic thought they look very good for first-time-ever service. He will soak the endcaps in muriatic acid overnight but only cleaned the core by brushing it with muriatic acid & rinse with water. I was hoping for pulling out the core to clear and pressure test before reassembling. What do you think?


The mechanic only found one O-ring on each end of the coolers but this picture from Seaboard shows 2 (#11) of them on one end. I called the parts person at SB and was told the newer QSC needs 3 big O-rings: 2 on one end and 1 on the other. Could someone clarify? Thank you!


View attachment 105926
View attachment 105922 View attachment 105923 View attachment 105924 View attachment 105925

Flix, I would pull them and pull the cores. It is important to clean the bore where the gasket meets the inside surface and then grease the ends. Talk to Tony Athens for the best advice. Just cleaning the end caps and the ends of the cores is a bad idea especially if they have never been apart. Not a place to cut corners at all! If your mechanic disagrees, get another mechanic. It’s not a fun job but it needs to be done.
Cheers
Carpe Diem

 

[Flix2]

Flix, I would pull them and pull the cores. It is important to clean the bore where the gasket meets the inside surface and then grease the ends. Talk to Tony Athens for the best advice. Just cleaning the end caps and the ends of the cores is a bad idea especially if they have never been apart. Not a place to cut corners at all! If your mechanic disagrees, get another mechanic. It’s not a fun job but it needs to be done.
Cheers
Carpe Diem

Expensive lesson learned. I won't make that mistake again. I will do exactly what you guys recommend. Otherwise, it could be a huge disaster. Thank you!
Flix

 

[Irie308]

Expensive lesson learned. I won't make that mistake again. I will do exactly what you guys recommend. Otherwise, it could be a huge disaster. Thank you!
Flix

Well the caps have to be cleaned regardless. Shouldn't be too big of a hassle to just pull the cores and have them properly cleaned, inspected and pressure tested. lesson learned for sure. I find always have to get a clear picture of the steps involved in any repair as it may not line up to what you would think would be prudent rather what saves the tech time.