420/44 da

D

delayed gratification

New Member
Sep 10, 2008
33
Fort Lauderdale
Boat Info
Intrepid 377 Walkaround 2009
Engines
Triple 275 Mercury Verados
Never owned a sea ray or any boat over 20ft. Chartered Sail and Trawler, but would like to buy express cruiser as I approach retirement. I now know the 420 and 44 DA are the same boat and production stopped after the 2008 model. I have several questions. Is the diesel motor change from 480 to 500 in 2006 also a significant change in technology,reliability, or maintainence (better or worse) ? What are thoughts about purchase opportunities ( late model 420 vs. newer 44 with no trade in and possible factory incentives ? Is the 420/44 a good choice for a cruising couple in their 50's with limited sport yacht experience ?(would not be a livaboard-- 3 or 4 weeks max)

Thanks
 
AS an 06 44 owner there is a big difference between the 480 and 500QSC motors . The 500 is a fully electronic motor. Exhaust smoke is all but gone. which is a huge thing with diesels. If u search u'll see many 42/44 threads. Great riding and handling boats. We take vacations 2 weeks at a clip in the summer and shes just terriffic.

Rob
 
Robski97, she's beautiful. I have my eye on a couple of '06 44's with 500s, and I hope to buy one in the next month or two - just letting the financial dust settle a bit first!
 
Hey Rob

Where's the zincs on that QSC 500? C'mon buddy...
 
I have an 03 420DA. We put about 150 hours/year on the boat. We have two kids and a dog and the boat has plenty of room for us; we spend 1-2 weeks aboard twice a year and every weekend that the weather permits us to use the boat from March thorugh November.

I have Cummins 6CTA 8.3M3 450s in my boat. These are older, C Series mechanical diesels. They smoke very little on start up, are perfectly matched to the boat, and are fairly fuel efficient-we average 21.5 GPH over the season. These engines are extremely reliable and easy to work on.

There are some great deals to be had on 03-04 model year 420DAs-in the 250K range on up.

regards
Skip
 
We just went through the same analysis, 04 vs 06, mechanical diesel vs electronic, etc. For us it was the cost differance to go from an 04 to 06, about a 100k upgrade. Essentially the same boat, except for differance in engine and the 06 is more plush. I can tell you there is a big differance between the motors as far as smoke and odor. The electronic produces no smoke and odor is much less. After we upgrade the electronics and some other mods, there will probably be about a 80K difference. We were able to find a very clean 04, that was also willing to take a trade on my old boat, which is Rare.

If you dont have a trade, i would definitey try a private sale. Check out CNS marine, they specialize in Searay and seemed to very Knowledgable and knew how to move boats. You can probably pick up an 06 for about $ 325k. They have a few to show.
 
Odayssea said:
Robski97, she's beautiful. I have my eye on a couple of '06 44's with 500s, and I hope to buy one in the next month or two - just letting the financial dust settle a bit first!
Click to expand...

Odayssea - There is a great 06 in your neighborhood at clarks. Check it out and priced right. They will take a trade.
 
Rocket said:
If you dont have a trade, i would definitey try a private sale. Check out CNS marine, they specialize in Searay and seemed to very Knowledgable and knew how to move boats. You can probably pick up an 06 for about $ 325k. They have a few to show.
Click to expand...

I was looking for a trade, but went with CNS due to the price differential.
 
It seems like I'm always the contrarian on these things, but I'd pick the older 6CTA 420DA version (Skip's boat!), but I'd buy the absolute nicest one I could find because it is a more maintence friendly boat and is a better value.

The only substantive smoke and odor difference on the QSC vs. the 6CTA is on start up when the engines are cold. Once warmed, there isn't a difference. There is also an intake heater that is frequently not working....not an engine fault, but one of being wired wrong or not wired at all by the marinizer. Many times a single trip by the Cummins technicial takes care of th wiring and sensor issues and the smoke almost goes away.

The 6CTA is a mechanical diesel that is an old design. That means the fuel system works by mechanics not electronics. It also means that almost any diesel mechanic can fix one. It takes a technician with a laptop and access to the Cummins system to even trouble shoot an electronic engine. They do seem to be very dependable, but several in our marina have made the long treck home in limp mode (800 rpm) when something simple like a crankshaft position sensor failed.

.....and, there are no factory incentives on used boat.

For what its worth..........
 
Appreciate all the excellent advice. They sound like great boats with advantages and cost/benefits to each. I was hoping to see a 44 DA at the Miami boatshow, but with the model being discontinued and the new 43, there may not be any to see. I am more traditional and really think the profile of the 420/44 is beautiful and I prefer it to the more Euro looking 43. I definitely want diesel V drives. I know Zeus may be the future, but I don't Know how reliable they will be and at my age, I may never trade. I want the engines (and me) to last a long time. I need to delay the retirement a few years, since the Market fell off a cliff. I plan to use the boat initially for one month each summer (about 100 hours/ year) and dry store the rest of the time, until fully retired. Prices are probably better now then in acouple of years. Does this type of use favor either electronic or mechanical diesels?
Many Thanks
 
Does not favor either mechanical or electronic diesels since the problem is stored fuel and that would affect either.

These boats do not like to sit. Letting on sit idle 11 months is a recipe for extremely high maintenance and a significant loss in servicablilty. The problems are not the engines either, but rather the pumps, compressors, electrical contacts, batteries, etc. everywhere else on the boat. I've kept a boat in Florida for 20+ years and have found that as long as I see it and run it about once a month, everything is fine. Let it go 6 weeks and I spend a day or 2 fixing stuff I left in working condition. My usual pattern is to be away for 3-4 weeks then in Florida for 10 days to 2 weeks, we use the boat every day the weather will allow us to when we are at the beach. I have the most dependable boat in the marina.....it just runs and doesn't cause problems.

You don't tell us anything about locations, but I'd certainly advise you to re-think the idea of storing the boat that long.
 
THAT is a beauty - and it has everything. Unfortunately I can't see even trying to convince the Admiral to sign off of the additional price tag, given all the financial losses this quarter and two kids approaching college. I may have to suffer with an '06 instead...
 
The one 08 44DA Zeus owner I spoke to (and posted about in August of this year) was mighty unhappy with his boat-it was at the dealer's service department more than it was available for the owner to use, and the boat had let him down a couple times while underway on the bay-leaking fluid in one zeus drive caused the engine to shut down, so he limped in on one engine. Not a happy camper. I am sure that Merc will figure it out, but this is a lot of money to spend to allow Merc to do R&D.
Again,one data point. I am sure that in 5 years the IPS and MERC Zeus configurations will have significant market share.
I'll keep my simple old mechanical diesels mated to ZF gears, 2" diameter stainless shafts, and four bladed nibral props. This old school technology has never let me down.
My.02
 
I have the 480 CE’s that are electronic and have performed very well for this past season, which is our first in this boat. What impresses me most about the engines is the performance and capability they have on the lower end due to the power and torque that is at your beckon call. The boat will jump up on plane in less time than you think is possible and maneuvering ability around the docks is easily done even without bow thrusters. But the real advantage here is should you get into some rough seas, you can drop down to around 18 knots while staying on plane and power through.

I wouldn’t shy away from the electronic engines as they are here to stay and even Skip will likely find them in his next boat.
 
My wife, aided and abetted by a financial planner (who is probably a ragboter) assures me that there is no "next boat" in the near term.

So-I will have my C series equipped 420DA or a long time.

But she is sporting new strataglass, spiffy new racor petcocks, and come the spring new bottom paint and whatever other upgrades I deem useful, the funding for which I can successfully hide from the MBA in the family.
 
Yes, I specified the Four Suns Signature Edition when I called Parker Racor.
Only the best for my girl.
 
Frank,
The boat would be kept in the Great Lakes, over 1,000 miles from home, until I fully retire. I left you a private message with the details. It would be run for 1 month. Many owners have their boats in dry storage for 8 months. My yearly hourly use would be similar to weekend use for an entire season. If maintanence is a problem, I may just need to wait a few more years. I was hoping to take advantage of the current buyers market, but not a good deal if I can't use it easily.
thanks, nick
Oklahoma City, OK
 
Nick,
Maybe you could contract with a local captain to run the boat periodically while you are not there.
 
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