410DA -Seawater backs up thru deck drain causing engine rust

[fwebster]

If you are looking for someone to point your finger at, here is a suspect:


Hail Mary Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 8:31 am Post subject:

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There was never "Excessive" water in the ER because the water flowed while coming up on plane, so it went to the bottom of the bilge and pumped out by the pump. Only the back up bilge pump has an alarm to signal excessive water in ER and that never went off. As for the Sea Ray Dealer (Surfside Three, now Marine Max), they repeatedly speculated on leaky water pumps or hoses and dismissed the issue as "boats rust". I should have pushed them harder. SR is now responsive because I have identified the cause, but the damage is done & repaired. Poor design & improper installation of hatch seal. Who should foot the bill? SR, Insurance or I?

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Caterpillar uses a Sherwood OEM pump that has several small weep holes around the body. Unless the pump body was cracked, which would be very evident because it would overheat the engine, this design cannot spray water...it drips. The last time I checked, water did not run up hill and the majority of your damage is well above the sea water pump, which essentially eliminates it as the source of the leak.

A leaking hose on the pressure side of the sea water pump would spray water everywhere.....not just in one spot on top of the engine. Besides, if a hose were leaking enough water to cause this damage, it would not be hard to find.......you could spot it while standing on the dock.

As far as I am concerned, "boats rust" is a completely unacceptable answer and probably indicates a technician or service manager who was more interested in getting off your boat and on to the next one than in helping a customer.

The initial new boat warranty would have covered the deck hatch gasket issue had it been reported to the dealer. Sea Ray does have an excellent structural warranty, and, as long as the owner properly maintained his boat, I have never known them not to repair a structural issue, no matter how old the boat was. This however, isn't a structural issue. The dealer should have identified the leak and worked with Sea Ray for a remedy before any damage was done. I don't see how this is a flawed design or how Sea Ray is at fault when apparently, there are a lot of 410DA's out there that do not have the problem.

I'm afraid there is going to be enough blame to go around on this one.

 

[tc410]

I don't see how this is a flawed design or how Sea Ray is at fault when apparently, there are a lot of 410DA's out there that do not have the problem.

Which problem, geyser action from the drain or a mis-installed deck seal on the access panel? While some of us have not been able to recreate Old Faithful out of our deck drain, it sounds so far like we all have some guy in the manufacturing process that didn't follow the design spec for installing the deck seal gasket on a 45 degree angle on the starboard aft corner of the access hatch. This error leaves about a 6-8" triangle of unsealed space right above the area that Sean has his issues. This is compounded by the fact that this vulnerable area is directly over the deck drain. Any water back-up, be it from a plugged drain or Sean's geyser scenario, will force water under the access hatch and into the ER directly over the engine and unbeknownst to the operator (for a while, anyway).

The bigger problem here seems to be the mis-installed hatch seal. If the seal were properly installed, Sean - or any other operator - would have seen water accumulating in the aft cockpit area and been able to diagnose and correct it sooner. My $.02

 

[Hail Mary]

Here is a Picture of the mechanical drawing and my hatch cover. Clearly SR did not properly attach the Hatch Seal at a 45 degree angle to accomdate the lip in front of the drain. Was your hatch seal properly installed? Just to be double sure you are not getting the Sea Water back up. I suggest placing an absorbent matt next to the stringer between the Genny and starboard engine to see if any water comes into the ER on your next few runs.

 

[osd9]

Has anyone confirmed that the gasketing on the port side aft corner under the main hatch is installed on a 45 degree? I'll check mine and report back.

 

[tc410]

Dom-

Actually it's the starboard aft corner, but that's just a technicality.

Yes, I have confirmed that my gasket was improperly installed, meaning that I have a 90 degree joint as opposed to the 45 degree design spec.

Jeff

 

[osd9]

Dom-

Actually it's the starboard aft corner, but that's just a technicality.

Jeff:

I am talking about the Port side....under the main hatch.....the drain in the OTHER corner.....

 

[tc410]

Dom-

Many apologies - I actually re-read your post and figured out what you were getting at. I tried to delete my error, but you had already replied. Again - sorry for the mis-read.

I recall my main access having a 45 degree cut on it, but I need to confirm.

Jeff

 

[osd9]

Jeff.......We're cool...

Another 2001 410da on my dock went out last night to test for sea water back up. He sucessfully recreated sea water back up while going up on plane and turning slightly to port. The sea water was shooting out of the drain at least one foot into the air. .....

Sean:

Does your dockmate also have the same or similar corrosion as you have depicted in your pictures?

 

[Hail Mary]

Yes, the other 2001 410DA on my dock has rust corrosion in exactly the same locations (aft portion of starboard engine & genny) just below the 45 degree angled portion of the deck drain. He is chasing Marine Max for the past week to get down to the dock and assess the corrosion. Not there yet.