410DA Racors

osd9

osd9

New Member
Oct 3, 2006
4,874
MidAtlantic
Boat Info
2003 410DA
Engines
Caterpillar 3126-TA w/ ZF 80-IV
I was at the AC Boat Show last night, and I spent a reasonable amount of time talking with the "Diesel" vendors....especially my local CAT dealership. In my conversation with the service manager (foremerly a service tech) he recommended that I use 10 micron filters in the primary Racors (He said that in the newer C7s he uses and recommends 2 micron for the primaries). He said that the secondary engine mounted CAT fileters are 2 micron.

Anyway, a few booths over from the CAT dealer's booth, there was a supply vendor who had, what I thought, was a good deal on some Racor products. I wasn't sure exactly what size the Racor housing are on the 410DA, but they "looked" like the 900 model that he had on display. Anyway, I bought four (4) 10 micron filters (blue tops) model 2040TM. I also bought two (2)16oz. bottles of Racor brand Biocide. Each bottle treats upto 1280 gallons (hopefully I get to use up both bottles this season :grin: ).

The vendor charged me $15 for each bottle of biocide and $7.50 for each of the filters...total $45 for all...he also threw in, at no charge, a 2 micron filter for the genie (model 2010). The model 2010 fits the Racor 500 housing.

Three questions:

1) Did I buy the right size filers for the 410DA (racor 900 for the mains and racor 500 for the genie)?

2) Were the prices he charged me in line with normal pricing?

3) Is the Racor Biocide a good product?
 
Dominic-

My 2000 410 has 500MA Racor primaries for both the mains and the gennie. I assume yours would be the same as we both have 3126 CAT's. I can't comment on the price because I have never bought filters for the 900 series. I pay about $8-9 per filter for the 500 series. I also have no experience with the Racor biocide - sorry.

I use brown filters all the way around (2 micron) despite what others recommend. Any particle over 2 microns can plug the injectors, a risk I'm not willing to take. The CAT secondary filters are "advanced efficiency" and at that, capture 98% of particulates over 2 micron. That leaves a chance for 2% of the particulates to pass through to the injectors. For that reason, I use 2 micron primaries in the Racor to help reduce my 2% chance of injector damage.

As for the guys that try to convince me that they only buy "clean" fuel from high volume dealers, unless they have microscopes for eyes, they don't what's going into their tanks. I've attached a graphic from the CAT site that demonstrates the difference between the thickness of human hair, talcum powder, and 2 microns. My eyes aren't good enough to claim that I'm buying "clean" fuel, so I depend on 2 micron filtration for the primary Racors and CAT secondaries.

Also, some advice on changing those Racors. Do yourself a huge favor and install petcocks on the bottoms of the sight bowls in place of the drain plug. That drain plug setup is 99% of the mess when changing these filters. The petcocks really make the job a 10 minute process for both filters.

Jeff
 
Thanks for the reply Jeff....Oh well...live and learn....anyone need any 10 micron Racors for a 900MA unit....I'll see if I can't trade them in when I order more....for the 500MA units....

Great advise on the petcock......before I make the same mistake twice.....do you know what size petcock I should buy....

And while were on the subject, do you have to fully drain the filter housing to change the filter element?
 
Please explain what parts I need to convert the bottom of my Racor Bowls to add this petcock, I think that is a great idea so as to not get diesel oil all over my hands, Thanks in advance.
 
Dominic, If I were a betting man I would bet that you already have petcocks installed on all three of the Racors. Hope my betting luck holds out for tonight's game. :grin:
 
Sea Gull said:
Dominic, If I were a betting man I would bet that you already have petcocks installed on all three of the Racors. Hope my betting luck holds out for tonight's game. :grin:
Click to expand...
Hey Jeff (Sea Gull):
That one sounds like a sure bet... :smt038 ....But I don't think you would get good odds on that one... :grin:

Thanks.. :thumbsup:
 
Here's what I did:

I found the petcocks at Tractor Supply. You can buy them at most home centers but all the ones I found at home centers were female thread on both sides, which requires a threaded nipple - one more joint to risk leaking on the pressure side of the valve. The ones I bought at Tractor Supply had a male thread on one side and a female thread on the other. I used teflon tape on the male thread and simply screwed it into the larger metal plug that the drain plug screws into. These petcocks were labeled "Campbell-Housefield" and were in the air compressor / air tools section of the store. I believe, working on memory here, that they are 1/2"npt. Anyway, they were the only Campbell-Housefield ball valves in the store.

Before I threaded them into the larger metal plug, I screwed a hose barb extension into the female thread to provide more control of the discharge and in case I ever want to stick a short plastic tube on the end to run to a container.

Dominc, while I completely drained the bowl to install the petcocks, you don't need to completely drain it for a filter change. Just drain enough to discharge any water that might accumulate in the bottom of the bowl (I have never had any water in mine). If you don't have water, just drain enough to break the vacuum so you can get the lid off. I drain mine down about 1" from the top of the unit so I don't make a big mess when pulling the old filter out. If you do the change with the fuel too close to the top, it goes everywhere when you pull the old filter and it will also surge out when you push the new filter in. I learned to push the new filter on very slowly so that absorbs fuel on the way in instead of displacing it over the top of the unit.

Seagull - unless the previous owner (you) installed them, they don't come from Racor that way. Dominic - if you have them , buy Seagull a beer when you see him, he made your project much easier!
 
This process is on my radar screen for this spring. I do not have them on Impulse III and have been meaning to install them for the past two seasons!! :smt021 . While changing the fuel filters is not all that hard (at least on my 410), petcocks will make an easy job even easier!! :thumbsup:
Now if the weather would just warm up ...oh say 40 degrees or so..I could get some work done!
 
tc410 said:
Dominic - if you have them , buy Seagull a beer when you see him, he made your project much easier!
Click to expand...

I'm hoping that Sea Gull makes a trip to Jersey this season, maybe Atilantic City and then onto the Chessapeakhe for the CSR BIH get together......I'll buy him a Canolli and Espresso in Little Italy.... :grin:


And thanks for the detail description on changing the primaries....any advise/tips on the secondaries....
 
The plug in the bottom of a Racor is 1/4" NPT.

The C-H fitting is chrome plated and can rust. Worse, as it ages, chrome will flake off and flaking chrome cuts like a razor. You can get a brass ball valve with male threads on one end from a good plumbing supply house or directly from Racor. The Racor ones are pricey, though.

The price Dominic paid is decent, but this company:

http://www.marinefilters.com/racortrans.php

has the best prices I've found, and great customer service to boot. 900 series elements are $6.78 ea, 500 series are $6.33 ea.

The primary filter is not the first one in the fuel flow, but it is the engine mounted one that is the "primary" protection for the pump and injectors. The Racors are the secondary filters.

I'm not going to argue this point again, but both Caterpillar and Racor recommend secondary filtration of between 10 and up to 30 microns as long as you are using Caterpillar brand "High Efficiency" filters which are 2 micron filters. Using 2 micron secondaries is overkill and if you only have 500 series Racors, I honestly don't see how you can go a month without plugging your filters. I guess it is due to your weather and temperatures and the fac tthat you don't seem to have as much of a sludge problem in your enviornemnt as we do in the south.
 
osd9 said:
....any advise/tips on the secondaries....
Click to expand...

Pick a container of your choice (cut off milk jug, bucket - I use an emisis basin) and an awl or nail. First break the secondary loose and loosen just short of the gasket breaking loose. Place the container under the filter, use the awl to punch a hole near the top of the filter. Next, punch a hole hear the bottom of the filter and the fuel will drain out. Completely remove the filter into the container.

Using some fuel or oil, lubricate the gasket of the new secondary filter and place on the engine. Remove the plug adjacent to the fuel filter mount. Prime the new fuel filter with the engine mounted primer until fuel comes out of the spot where you removed the plug. Replace the plug, light the fire and you should be set.

ImpulseIII said:
For some reason, I am thinking that the petcock needs to be 1/4 inch on my boat. Gonna have to check that out.....
Click to expand...

Like I said Frank, I'm working from memory. 1/2" might not be right, maybe 3/8", but I don't think 1/4" is right. I took the plug with me to TSC. It's been a long winter! All of that seems so long ago!

fwebster said:
The C-H fitting is chrome plated and can rust. Worse, as it ages, chrome will flake off and flaking chrome cuts like a razor.
Click to expand...

Hmm...not the ones I bought at TSC, solid brass.

fwebster said:
The primary filter is not the first one in the fuel flow, but it is the engine mounted one that is the "primary" protection for the pump and injectors. The Racors are the secondary filters.
Click to expand...

I've noticed you confuse these in the past. Per CAT, technicians, the Sea Ray owners manual, and Dominc, the first filter in the system is indeed the primary (as in "first"), and the second filter in the system is the secondary. If your boat (or truck or tractor or lawnmower) doesn't have Racors, then the engine mounts are "primary". If your boat does have Racors, then they are the primary. Just for clarification. :wink:
 
Gentlemen:

Further discussion with Frank W. on this topic has resulted in the following additional information:

I searched the C-H website (chpower.com) and found the valve I bought from TSC. It is available in 1/4, 3/8, and 1/2. They are called "full port ball valves".

I've attached a photo. 1/4" is part number MP321700AV, 3/8" is PA113600AV. The more I've thought about this, I think Frank is right on the 1/4" size.

Jeff
 
Thanks for the tip- I know another project just added to my list.
Do you use joint compound or teflon tape for the threads on this?
 
I used Teflon tape. As long as joint compound will hold up to diesel fuel, you could use that, I just like the tape because it's not as messy to work with.

This project is one of the few you will do on your boat for $15-20 with results much more rewarding than some of those $1000 projects!
 
It is my understanding that a thread sealer containing a lubricant and not Teflon tape should not be used on fuel fittings. The reason has to do with the fact that tapered threads need a lubricant to achieve a seal without flaking off metal particals or damaging the threads.

I don't want anything but fuel in the system, so whenever I work on a fuel fitting, I start applying the sealer on the second full revolution of threads on the male fitting, not at the bottom thread. Then, as the fitting is installed, the sealer works its way up the male thread and you don't get any in the fuel connection.
 
Frank, is a thread - sealer, joint compound like I use on brass fittings and pipes (household stuff)??? Or do I need to buy a specfic sealer? Thank you in advance.
 
Frank-

I'd be curious to hear more about the reason to not use Teflon tape on diesel fittings. Teflon tape is designed to lubricate and seal.

Beside the risk of introducing tape fragments into the fuel system are there other issues related to breakdown or leaking? As for the tape particles, I also start the tape up a few starter threads like you do with the pipe dope. Also, if any stray particle of tape did wander away from the fitting, it would be contained in the Racor bowl with the algae and other sediment. Do you have more information on this?

Jeff
 
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