410 DA vs 420 DA vs. 44 DA vs. 43 DA

J

J Levine

New Member
Oct 5, 2006
753
New Jersey
Boat Info
1995 Sea Ray 370 Sundancer
Engines
Mercruiser 7.4L Blue Water inboard V Drives
The september issue of MotorBoating arrived today with the new 43 DA on the cover. What a good looking boat. QSB 425's with Zeus drives push this 28.5K lb boat to 22 MPH at 2300 RPM burning 29 GPH.... very nice. I will be in the market for a new boat in about 15 years but I am alwasy shopping. Question for you guys out there... I know the 410 and 420 were built in Merrit Island and DO NOT have balsa cored bottoms. Does anyone know about the current 44 DA or this new 43 DA relative to their construction? The 44 DA appears to be the same hull at the 420 DA so I am guessing that it is also not cored.

The article says the 43 DA prototype that they tested was built in the Palm Coast plant which leaves me to think that is probably does have a balsa core in the bottom as I think most of the builds at Palm Cost do.
 
Jon:

If you haven't already, then read Skip's post with regard to the QSB Zeus in the 44DA.

http://clubsearay.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11378

Some of the early production 410DA and EC's, from what I've been told, were Balsa cored below the waterline. Mine, I know was not, as I called SR with Serial number to confirm.

Also, 22 MPH is quite slow for this boat....are you sure it wasn't knots?
 
Thanks Dom, the chart is in MPH and not Knots. I just picked 2300 RPM as an example. They show what I assume is WOT at 3000 RPM, 36.6 MPH and 44 GPH.
 
That's not at all impressive performance for the 43. So not only does zeus blow (it's lube oil) it also sucks (fuel). The Regal 4460 with IPS does much better "I was probably most impressed with the miserly fuel burn of only 27.7 GPH at a faster than normal cruise speed of 35.5 MPH" From the owners I've talked to (two of them) the IPS drives don't seem to have problems.

So if I don't go for a 3126 powered 410, looks like I'll be getting an IPS powered Regal. Well, it's all in the future. Who knows?

Best regards,
Frank C
 
Frank I am still wrapped up in the gas vs diesel advantage, you (as usual) are way ahead of me. This boat weighs 10K more than mine and will run at the same speed burning the same amount of fuel. I agree with the concerns about zeus. Brunswick is trying to play catch up to Volvo big time. I guess I will set my fantasy sights on a old 420 with V drives and old school diesel power. Of course by the time I will be ready to move up fuel will be so expensive I will probably buy a big sail boat!
 
I've looked a little at the magazine. The cruise on the new 43 at 2300RPM is 22.6 MPH and at 2500RPM is 26MPH. WOT is 36.6 MPH at 3000RPM. If MPG (MPH/GPH) is an indication of running the motors at the most effecient 'sweet' spot, than the 43 is begging to be run at 32MPH at 2800RPM (nearly WOT).

The MPG numbers indicate a fuel effeciency of .78MPG at 2300RPM, .79MPG at 2500 RPM, .87MPG at 2800RPM and .82 at WOT

BTW...from another thread...I noticed that throuhout the magazine, most of the boats (nearly all) are being run with thier sunpads on the bow.
 
Another observation, and in keeping with typical Manufacturer M.O., the boat was run in ideal conditions: calm water, light wind, 1/4 fuel and 3 POB....probably skinny POB too.

Now, put on your tools, spares, lines, fenders, extra cleaning stuff, etc, etc....the admirals stuff in the galley, the fridge, the closets, etc, etc....the families stuff packed for a few days away.....full tanks of fuel (an extra 260 gallons)...AND....don't forget the new fancy water toy hanging off of that hydraulic swim pad....and you've just added maybe 4000 lbs....more if it's Gary...I wonder what the performance numbers would be then....or if it would even reach rated WOT....especially late in the season with a little growth on the bottom....????
 
They don't send me that magazine free, like they were doing. Therefore, I don't read it anymore. I hardly read it when it was free. There's certainly no point in paying for it. The test isn't on their web site, but usually the rags state the test conditions. I have no idea of what the condtions were, but as Dom remarked, the conditions are usually optimal.

Best regards,
Frank
 
I spoke with a good friend of mine who recently ran a 48 Sundancer with the zeus system over to Chicago from Michigan City (about a 36 Mile run) and he stated that to keep the bow down enough to see over they needed to run the boat anywhere between 27 and 32 mph. Anything less than that you couldn't see anything over the bow becuase it was so high.

This coming from a former 2004 420 DA owner.

The question is, do the new 43 and 44 run the same way? What happens if you are in less than ideal conditions and you need to slow down, the bow rise becomes unsafe.
 
Carver370 said:
..... What happens if you are in less than ideal conditions and you need to slow down, the bow rise becomes unsafe.
Click to expand...

Trim Tabs down....:huh:...they're integrated in the zeus drives...
 
Sea Ray will eventually reconfigure the boats so that they will run well with the drives. Maybe by then the drives won't grenade. Right now, it's a kludgy retrofit.

Best regards,
Frank
 
Here is a picture of the new 43DA

untitled.jpg
 
Nice looking boat.

I will keep my old reliable C series equipped 03 420DA, which, for those interested, is identical to the 44DA save for the spiffy vertical ports on the side of the newer boats-which, based on my experience watching a new 48DA roll into pilings during a hard storm in June at the Hyatt in Cambridge, MD, punch in and shatter quite impressively when the boat is not secured properly, and the dock pilings come calling.

As to cruise speed, C series Cummins in an 03 420DA produce ~24.0 knots at 2100 RPM with full fuel, water, and a week's worth of food, beverages, etc. Plus all my tools, spare props, etc. What Dom said wrt real world loading.

Avg fuel burn (non-Smartcraft, non-Floscan measure) using gallons to fill divided by hours run is ~21.5 GPH.
And my ZF 280 Series IV V Drive transmissions don't leak and shut down the C series.

regards
Skip
 
The nice thing about the tabs in the zeus drive is that the trim tabs are integrated. So if you need more tab, you can't just call Bennett and install a larger tab. Oh, nice thing means nice for Mercruiser. Making simple things complex adds margin and sells more service and service parts. It's the proprietary Mercruiser way to screw the customer. (IMHO)

Best regards,
Frank C
 
The reason they're integrated is because they are automatically controlled to compensate for load/acceleration/run angle etc. A previous months' write up for the 48DA (?) raves about Zeus and the response time and accuracy of the tab function. I don't think it's a matter of trying to screw anyone with a proprietary item. Besides, how many recreational boaters that you know of routinely change the size of their tabs?
 
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jg300da said:
...... Besides, how many recreational boaters that you know of routinely change the size of their tabs?
Click to expand...

Folks with 330DA's probably consider it often. I know that I Did! I considered putting larger tabs on my 330's, but changed to 4 bladed props instead. With the three bladed props, it always felt like it wanted to fall off plane as I came down from 3400RPMs and approached 3000 RPMs....even with full tabs down. Must have been all the admiral's stuff on board...:grin:
 
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What Dom said.

And probably the 48DA owners tired of running with the bow up in the air like some snooty sorority girl's nose.

Merc has a habit of shoving out proprietary solutions that don't play nicely with the other kids on the playground. Have you tried to incorporate smartcraft into a non-Merc electronics setup? Other than Northstar, which had access to Merc's proprietary protocols, it can't be done. How about getting third party props for your Bravo 3? Good luck.

Mercury sucks. Which weighs heavily against my next boat being a Sea Ray. I don't want to get stuck.

Best regards,
Frank
 
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