400DA Repower question

[bigduby]

I have recently found a 1999 400DA that my wife and I like ( Listed price $154K ). We would be moving up from a 1990 280DA so this is quite a leap for us if we can make it happen. I have found some really good information on this site from people who were asking the very same questions that we had and I thank everyone up front for all of the information that they provided ( and for the search function ). Ive tried to search for all of our questions but one that may be specific to this boat is the fact that they are advertising a repower. From the site:
"NEW POWER!!!! THE OLD "FRENCH" BLOCKS HAVE BEEN REPLACED WITH NEW ONES BY ALBIN DIESEL.....ONLY 100 HOURS ON HER "NEW BLOCKS" ALONG WITH 100% NEW REPLACEMENT ON ADDITIONAL ITEMS AND TUNED TO CATERPILLAR SPECS TO MAKE FOR A PERFECT REPLACEMENT PACKAGE..."
Is this something that I should be concerned about or be happy that they only have 100 hours on them? Overall boat hours are listed at 789. Will this cause any problems in the future? I am completely new to diesel and I am not sure what would be covered in the "ADDITIONAL ITEMS" that would have been added. I can and will go back to the broker with questions but I really don't know what questions to ask. I would like to know as much up front about the motors and the rest of the boat before I ever get a surveyor out there. Engines listed: Engine(s): T/ 3116TA Fresh Water Cooled Diesel Inboards Engine(s) HP: 680 Total H.P. Engine Model: T / 3116TA Cats
Thanks,
Scott

 

[fwebster]

I've been told by a Caterpillar dealer who we used for a survey on a '99 370EC with 3116's that only the 3126 engines had the soft block issue. The soft blocks are evidenced by early wear and excessive blow-by and oil consumption.

But that really isn't material in your case since the boat has been repowered, for whatever the reason. What you need to address is doing your normal due diligence on both the boat and the engines. Make any offer you make contingent on the results of a marine survey , a mechanical survey and a sea trial suitable to the buyer.

THe mechanical survey should be done by a servicing Caterpillar marine dealer and you should specify that the survey include oil sampling and a "blow-by test". The blowby test is proprietary to Cat engines and is saves a ton of money on mechanical surveys. The Cat survey will take most of a day, will include a sea trail so the technician can observe and test the engine under load,a and when it is done, there will be no doubt about the condition of the engines.

As far as Bad Cat engines? There are many CSR members here who have lots of hours on 3116's. I am one.....I love mine, after about 1200 hours, they use no oil, leak nothing at all, lthey are powerful, economical, easy to maintain, and are as smoke free and clean burning as many other engine makers electronic engines.

Hope that helps...........

 

[bigduby]

Frank, thank you for the input. I wanted to do as much due diligence as I could before the survey's. I also appreciate the input on the handling of the entire process.

 

[glass slipper]

I belive I know this boat your looking at. A friend had this boat surveyed. One of the engines had an unusual loud tapping noise that the surveyor could not identify nor Albin Cat (the engine rebuilder). The way whole issue was dealt with(the noise, Albin service call to noise, seller, broker) did not give a warm fuzzy feeling. He backed out of the deal in late summer. I have a copy of the survey. You can reach me by PM.

 

[fwebster]

Loud tapping noise does not equal soft blocks.............I wouldn't think.

 

[glass slipper]

No sir, loud tapping noise is coming from rebuilt engines. This boat did suffer from massive blow by in one engine ( loss of power, white smoke blowing from K & N breather, oil pollution...) According to local Cat dealer (Albin) this boat had what has been called "soft blocks" or " french blocks" due to the blocks supplied by factory in France did not put enough nickel in blocks so that the cylinder wall wore out not rings (supposedly the story goes). The boat owner wanted both engines rebuilt (he did not feel comfortable with the running engine due to the close sieral #). Cat. factory did help with the rebuilds owners bill was aprox. $ 11,000 (have to check notes for exact amount) he did have all belts and hoses changed out as some other wear items. After this happen I got nervious & started to investigate. Starting with Rusty at Sea Ray, all Diesel Forms, Cat dealers, even reading all of CSR own Diesel expert (you) post. I have seen interoffice memos of a DE cat. dealer that states all 3116s with s/n starting with 4KG.. are of the soft block. IMHO this cant be true there are to many out there with that prefix. There is also suposed to be a casting mark on all French blocks but I cant find it or confirm this. The stories go on & no with no real hard facts to back them up. I have come to belief that they are good engines, treat them well (P.M. and run at rated RPM and cool down time) they should be fine. I do know that the owner of the above boat ran them real hard all the time. Sit back have another Beer and find somthing else to worry about.

 

[al400]

I have a 99 Sea Ray 400EC with 370 hp Cummins 6BTA's for sale. No worries on these engines....bullet proof!! I would also take your 280 on trade

 

[fwebster]

Loud tapping noise on a fresh rebuild is most likely a valve or injector setting issue. Cat did not rebuild the soft blocks, but replaced the engine blocks and reinstalled new rings and bearings and reused the rotating/recricating parts.

The serial number you indicated above is common to nearly all mid 90's 3116's I have seen and most of them have provided years of trouble free service, so, I'm like you. Even if some were, I doubt that all 4KG...#'s are soft blocks. You are correct in that the casting number on the block is the tell-tale, not the serial no. The soft French castings had the letters "FAPS" in stamped numerals on the deck of the block visible from above, but with some difficulty because of the head, pump, fuel lines, etc. that are in the way.

But the truth of the matter is that all this is a moot point now. Any engine that was going to exhibit this or the soft TRW valve problem has long since been repaired since both problems surfaced at or below roughly 200 hours. Once an engine was repaired, the owner never had any more trouble from either cause.

Now, back to my recommendation that the original poster have a mechanical survey done by a servicing Caterpillar dealer........one of the reasons for this is because a Cat dealer has access to all the warranty and service work done on the engines by Cat throught their service support system. If his deal gets far enough for a survey, he can find out exactly what was done and why just by asking the Cat dealer to give him a copy of the service records for those engines.

 

[fc3]

(P.M. and run at rated RPM and cool down time) they should be fine. I do know that the owner of the above boat ran them real hard all the time. Sit back have another Beer and find somthing else to worry about.

No, no, no, no. Running hard and at rated RPM is bad for the engines. You want to run at no more than 80% of rated. I would pass.

Best regards,
Frank

 

[bigduby]

This is some good information and I appreciate everyones input and opinions. It sounds like I may be better off looking at another. After seeing this boat we love the 400DA so we will continue to look for one. Thanks again for everyones input. glass slipper, I sent you a PM on the survey.