4 blade prop?

[boatnik1]

used my garmin for speed as I didn't trust the speedo which says 56 . This is a brand new boat with 22 hours on it. When I first got it, it had a 3 blade stainless 14.25x21 pitch vengence prop on it. After the first 10 hours at wide open throttle it read 6000 rpms but the rev limiter never kicked in. Got the dealer out here and the tach wire was was set to 4 cylinder they changed it to the 8 terminal not the 6 terminal. It made no sense to me, I called searay and they told me with the new 4.3 with the pollution garbage on there that was correct. They were out here twice for the tach. the tach will not illuminate at night. They pulled it off and you can clearly see that the bulb is lit when looking at the back of it but cannot see any light through the front of the tach. Two of them were like that. Another thing that is not right is the gas gauge which when full reads 1/4 inch under the F on the on the gauge itself. Then when the gauge is on E go to fill it up and still had 8 gallons in it. Dealer pulled the sending unit checked it an said they found nothing wrong with the sending unit or gauge?????????? Gonna see if I can get them back out here again. You guys are right something is wonkey here. Thanks for all the input. This is the reason I joined this forum.

 

[blaster]

I have the same issue with the illumination problem with the tach. My dealer said since the other 205's they had were the same way its not a defect? Sorry about your issues, sounds like these problems aren't isolated to one batch of boats. My speedo consistantly reads 5mph fast. With my 19" vengeance I top out at 56 speedo and 51 gps at 4950 rpms and the rev limiter kicking in. I feel my tach reads accurate but I don't have the ECT crap.

 

[boatnik1]

thanks for the reply blaster, I'm getting these guy's out here asap. The tach accuracy and gas guage are my big concerns. Let you guys know what happens. Thanks

 

[LawyerMan]

Here's an interesting read on three vs four blade props: http://www.boattest.com/resources/view_news.aspx?newsid=3276

 

[boatnik1]

installed original 3 blade stainless 14.25x21 pitch vengence prop back and got the same results, 52 mph at 4350 rpms. service manager said he will try to get out here tomorrow to see for himself. Im thinking it's gotta be a bad tach or hooked up wrong. thanks for all the input.

 

[jeffw]

I just got my tach replaced for the lighting issue, I haven't picked it up yet so I shall see. Dealer said they had seen this before and just replaced it.

 

[boatnik1]

Service manager came out here and brought a digital tach. With the 14.25x21 pitch 3 blade stainless vengence prop that came with the boat at wide open throttle hit 52 on the garmin at 4300 rpms just like the tach guage on dash says,Well the speedo said 57 but I will trust the garmin at 52 with both of us in the boat. Now he is just as confused as me and is going to contact searay. I also showed him the full gas tank guage that reads almost 1/4 inch below the f on the guage and the tach that does not light. I think these guages are possesed!!! When I filled up today the guage was on the E. I had gas with me because these guages lie like a rug and it only took 14 gallons to top it off? They are going to set me up with something different for the gas guage on the dash I forgot what he called it. As jeffw posted on this thread his tach light doe's not lite either, he is having his replaced. let me know what happens for you jeffw. I tried an aluminum 14.25x 19 pitch generic turning point hustler prop today from the marina down the water, "very good people" and was at 49mph at 4750 rpms never heard the motor run that high before. He let me use another one I am going to try tommorow. Same generic name 14.25x19 four blade aluminum and see what the rpms do then. at this point I am just baffled. Service manager did verify that it was 1.62 ratio. It is actually comical at this point. There are other people on this thread that are running simular props and your rpms are up there with the pitches I have run. I would love to try the the high five that cubee talked about on this thread but even with the 3 and 4 blade I am getting no where fast. I think whats going on here is that I was over propped from the git go. But they swear up and down that the prop thats on there now is mated for this boat. I should not be going though this with a brand new boat. But $its wires and tires and now you can add boats. Once again thanks for all the input and patience, What an exellent baseline forum. I will let you know when the exorcism is preformed.

 

[boatnik1]

Thanks cubee I think they over propped me from the start with the 13.75x21 pitch 3 blade stainless vengence. wot 4300 at 52 mph. Sorry I did not see your post till now. I will get back with you when I try the 14.25x 19 pitch 4 blade that I borrowed from the marina down the water. You guy's are a hell of alot more infomational than searay/mercury/ and not to mention the dealer!!!!!! who is lost at this point. what type of props have you run on on your boat, and at what rpms and speeds. I would like to go with the high 5 but am skeptical for now with all the issues. At least I know the tach is accurate, but did I do any damage to anything on breakin????? I kind of babied it for the first 10 hours and then only highballed for a minute or two thanks.

 

[blaster]

Are you running at high altitude? My numbers are at 6 feet above sea level. I ran a 21" vengeance and turned about 4700 rpm at 54 on the gps with a 50 degree air temp. I would think a lighter boat would at least be similar with the same prop.

 

[boatnik1]

Blaster I am running the boat in wisconsin, not a high altitude. Dealer called and said the factory could have mislabled my out drive from the start. I may not even have the 1.62 gears like I am suppose to. My question now was there damage done to engine from lugging the motor for 23 hours.

 

[boatnik1]

what gear ratio came with your boat, and what prop are you using. What rpms and speed do you get wide open. Sounds like you have the same boat as me.

 

[blaster]

Blaster I am running the boat in wisconsin, not a high altitude. Dealer called and said the factory could have mislabled my out drive from the start. I may not even have the 1.62 gears like I am suppose to. My question now was there damage done to engine from lugging the motor for 23 hours.

The gear ratio should be stamped on the upper unit along with a serial number. You weren't that far below the minimum 4400 rpm's so I'm sure its fine.

what gear ratio came with your boat, and what prop are you using. What rpms and speed do you get wide open. Sounds like you have the same boat as me.

I have the same 1.62 ratio and 19" Vengeance 51MPH on GPS at 4950 with the overspeed alarm chirping. Dennis AKA Lazy Daze posted one time that even though the 205 is bigger and heavier than the 190 it is faster with equal power. Doesn't explain your low rpm's though. With the 21" Vengeance I hit 54 mph on the GPS at around 4700 rpm's. The tach isn't graduated so you can't really get an exact number off mine.

Also when you do your run make sure you trim out until the prop almost ventilates. You will feel a loss of speed and increase in rpm's. When that happens trim in a hare and that's your max speed position.

 

[boatnik1]

all serial numbers stampings and even mercury marine verified that it is indeed a 1.62. even the barcode stickers on alpha drive said so. Merc marine said that there are different gearsets that are universal for this drive. he rattled a couple off 1.50, 1.62, 1.47, 1.81, 2.0, 2.4, the original prop was a vengence#stamped on prop is 48 16318 21 pitch. I do beleive this is a 13 3/4 inch, diameter correct me if I'm wrong. Tried the 14inch 19 pitch 4 blade aluminum today from local marina and was at about 4350 rpm at about 47 mph. it is possible merc put the wrong gear set in and stamped it 1.6 What gearset would drop your rpms by 400. mercury said not to worry about any damage done because the curve is so close, but it is documented with them. The next step is the dealer seeing what gears are really in there. I think my drive was assembled on a Monday. Any info on that prop # would be helpful. Thanks for the help.

 

[Cubee]

[FONT=Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]G'day Boatnik

OK don't stress too much man, boating is supposed to be fun!

I could not get much more than 4450 to 4500 rpm with my original 21P Vengeance and 1.62 gears and was getting low 53 to 54 mph on gps. I changed because it was way too slow out of the hole and would not stay on plane at low speeds.

I think what we are seeing with your boat is "manufacturing tolerance" in the output of the motor. You have the catalyst equipped motor and at a guess the extra restriction in the exhaust might lose a few hp off the top end of the power band or it might just be a motor that is 5 to 10 hp different to another. E.g. Mine might make 221 hp and yours could be 214 hp and so on.

When comparing props, you really need to compare S/S vs S/S and alu vs alu otherwise you have too many variables in the mix.

As I said previously, if you want to put a 5 blade on there and you run light, use the 21P but if you do your boating with 5 to 6 people in the boat like me then go with the 19P. Remember that the High 5 props in 19P and 21P are both only 13.25" diameter so they spin up easier than (say) a 14" diameter. If for some reason you want to stick with a 4 blade prop, I would recommend that you go with the Mercury Vensura 4 blade S/S in 14x19P size. It would give you better results than the 14x19 alu that you tried due to the increased efficiency of the stainless prop. I think your wot revs would be about 4600 with the Vensura and speed around 50 mph.

Cheers for now.[/FONT]

 

[boatnik1]

cubee tanks for the info, at this point it is actually entertaining and would do it all over again cause I love this boat. The only time I ever saw over 4300 rpms is when I put an aluminum 14x19 pitch 3 blade on it and hit 4750 rpms. I would think that the motor with that prop would have been spinning like a gyroscope and rev limiter would have kicked in at 4950 if it had the 1.62 ratio. Dealer is convinced there is a problem after using his digital tach and it mated the guage. When I do get these issues ironed out I am going to go with the high 5. At this point after all the props I tried(Thank you local marina) I'm leaning they find 1.47 or some other wierd gearing when they pull it apart. Was your original vengeance a 13.750 diameter? They sold alot of these boats this year and have never seen this before with this same prop. He did recommend the prop that you told me about but said hold off till they get this taken care of. In the mean time I'm just chillin. I am going to make sure the gear ratio is correct. If it wasn't for this forum I wouldn't even known that there was a problem. Test resuts were based on vengeance 3 blade stainless 48 16318 21 pitch. 4300 rpms W.O.T. at 52 mph with garmin.Thanks cubee.

 

[Cubee]

G'day Boatnik

Yes, my original Vengeance was 13.75 x 21P. That is the standard diameter size for that prop in the 4.75" gearcase size.

At a guess, I would say there is only a very slight chance that you have a 1.47 ratio sterndrive that has been labeled as a 1.62. It is more likely that (sorry to say this) your engine is probably down a few hp on some of the other V6 220 mpi's around particularly non-ECT motors such as mine and Blaster's. I would be surprised if there were any technical differences between a non-ECT engine and a ECT engine when it comes to cams, compression ratio, ECU, injector sizes etc etc. I think it is just the same engine with the extra ECT stuff in the exhaust manifold etc creating a bit of restriction and knocking a few hp off the top end. Throw in manufacturing tolerances and there could easily be 10-15 or so hp difference between engines.

The other problem that Sea Ray has with this particular hull and engine combo is that you can't get a Vengeance prop in 20P size because this is probably what is really needed to get the revs to sit around the 4600 mark. Because a 19P would put the engine right at the top or just over the max WOT of 4800 rpm for "safety sake" they go to the next size up prop which is the 21P but this prop then drops the revs about 400 rpm down to 4400 rpm which is at the bottom of the WOT range. (4400 to 4800 rpm)

They pump for the lower revs prop because it gives slightly better mid-range fuel consumption at say 30mph and also they don't have to rely on the boat owner being careful to keep the revs from going over 4800 if they are running the boat light with only one or two up. Refer to Blaster's results with a 19P on his 205SP.

It is certainly going to be interesting to see what the dealer comes up with as their answer. Anyone else want to have an educated guess? Blaster? (Just for fun of course!) Keep us posted.

Cheers mate.

 

[blaster]

I have to agree with you Cubee. I can't imagine the wrong gears being mated to a case stamped 1.62. The main thing to consider is how the boat will be used. If you are just kissing 4400 lightly loaded and you take 6 people out skiing, that's when you will really lug the motor. I have a 4 blade powertech! ELE 17 prop I use for slalom hole shot and high altitude lakes I visit. It was only $250 new and performs great. WOT it hits 48 mph at 4900 rpm's and has a wicked hole shot compared to the 19" Vengeance which is no slouch. The extra cup in the blades along with the lower pitch allow that wicked thrust without over reving the engine.

Blaster I am running the boat in wisconsin, not a high altitude. Dealer called and said the factory could have mislabled my out drive from the start. I may not even have the 1.62 gears like I am suppose to. My question now was there damage done to engine from lugging the motor for 23 hours.

G'day Boatnik

Yes, my original Vengeance was 13.75 x 21P. That is the standard diameter size for that prop in the 4.75" gearcase size.

At a guess, I would say there is only a very slight chance that you have a 1.47 ratio sterndrive that has been labeled as a 1.62. It is more likely that (sorry to say this) your engine is probably down a few hp on some of the other V6 220 mpi's around particularly non-ECT motors such as mine and Blaster's. I would be surprised if there were any technical differences between a non-ECT engine and a ECT engine when it comes to cams, compression ratio, ECU, injector sizes etc etc. I think it is just the same engine with the extra ECT stuff in the exhaust manifold etc creating a bit of restriction and knocking a few hp off the top end. Throw in manufacturing tolerances and there could easily be 10-15 or so hp difference between engines.

The other problem that Sea Ray has with this particular hull and engine combo is that you can't get a Vengeance prop in 20P size because this is probably what is really needed to get the revs to sit around the 4600 mark. Because a 19P would put the engine right at the top or just over the max WOT of 4800 rpm for "safety sake" they go to the next size up prop which is the 21P but this prop then drops the revs about 400 rpm down to 4400 rpm which is at the bottom of the WOT range. (4400 to 4800 rpm)

They pump for the lower revs prop because it gives slightly better mid-range fuel consumption at say 30mph and also they don't have to rely on the boat owner being careful to keep the revs from going over 4800 if they are running the boat light with only one or two up. Refer to Blaster's results with a 19P on his 205SP.

It is certainly going to be interesting to see what the dealer comes up with as their answer. Anyone else want to have an educated guess? Blaster? (Just for fun of course!) Keep us posted.

Cheers mate.

 

[boatnik1]

if gearing is correct I wonder if the high5 19 would raise my rpms a bit or stay where they are, and what it would do to top end speed. For the time being I'm just enjoying the ride. I will let you know what they find. From what they told me it's happened before.

 

[jeffw]

I finally picked up boat today and turned on new tach tonight. You can read it but it is still allot darker than the other two. First tach I could not read all the numbers and the indicator line. Dealer tells me this is what Sea Ray has been going to with the main guage bright, speedometer, less and the tachometer barely visible, but visible. This does make sense as how important is the tach at night anyway. It is now at an acceptable level, but I am going to try some blue LED's, guy I work with has them on his 21' Bryant and they look really nice. If I get a chance I will try to write down some specific speeds, rpms etc next time I go out to compare since I have the exact same boat.

 

[boatnik1]

Hey jeffw are you running the vengeance 21 pitch blade on your boat that came with it. If so what rpms are you getting at wide open throttle. You have the same boat as me.