36 Sedan Bridge Battery Issues/Questions

boughtabouy

boughtabouy

New Member
Jun 6, 2008
434
San Diego
Boat Info
Sea Ray 36 SD/Caribe DL12
Engines
Twin 496, 8.1 Horizon/Yamaha 40HP
Hi All,

Background: I've got an issue going on with my Stb batteries, and some other battery/power related questions that I need to resolve before I spend the night on the hook and end up with a Sea Tow bill the next day. I have 2 sets of 2 Group 31 batteries. They are run in a series (I believe...battery 1 has black going out to engine, red going to black of battery 2, and red of battery 2 going out to engine), one pair for each engine that also acts as house batteries.

1. I had an issue over the 4th weekend where we took the boat out for a cruise and gas up (about 3 hours of cruising) and returned to the dock to get ready for the 4th of July outing. when I returned to the dock, I noticed a warning on vessel view. "Low Voltage" and "battery not charging". The next day, went to head out and Stb engine wouldn't even turn over. Checked water level, and found one a little low. Had to emergency start that engine off the Port, which was working find. Ran over to our anchorage, and ran the gen for a few hours to charge the Stb batteries (which worked). Both engines started after the fireworks, as the gen was running off and on all day while we were on the hook. While hooked to shore power over the next two days, both battery sets seemed to charge as normal. We spent another day on the hook, and ran the batteries down some, but both engines started when it was time to leave. The next day (after the night on shore power) I checked the batteries when it was time to leave for home, and port was fine, but Stb was showing 10 volts, and amps "0", which normally shows a negative number as the battery is charging. Any ideas? Bad battery in the series? Evidence now has shown that the alternator didn't charge the Stb batteries in one instance, and the charger didn't in the other instance.

2. Since the boat is less than a year old, I called service. They are supposed to take a look next week. Then I noticed that batteries are not covered under the normal 1 year warranty offered by Sea Ray. Shouldn't the batteries at least last for the first year? Not looking forward to a huge bill for new batteries that should at least last for the first year.

3. Does the gen run off the 4 batteries that I referenced above, or does it have it's own battery? It's a Kohler 7.5Kw, and I know it has it's own alternator, but not sure about it's own battery. I noticed that the blower dims when starting the gen, so I'm guessing it runs of the main batteries. Just don't want to run down the main batteries on the hook, and be stranded the next day. Maybe the CCA's required to start the gen would be much less than the main engines, which would allow the gen to be started to then charge the main batteries, which would solve the problem.

4. If the batteries are a problem, and need to be replaced, I might switch all over to Optima's. They seem to be the way to go. Anyone that has to crawl all over to fill the batteries up on this boat will understand. The pain is felt for the entire next day. Does the charger need to be set different for AGM batteries?

Wow, is that enough to chew on for a while?

TIA,

Kevin
 
boughtabouy said:
2. Since the boat is less than a year old, I called service. They are supposed to take a look next week. Then I noticed that batteries are not covered under the normal 1 year warranty offered by Sea Ray. Shouldn't the batteries at least last for the first year? Not looking forward to a huge bill for new batteries that should at least last for the first year.


4. If the batteries are a problem, and need to be replaced, I might switch all over to Optima's. They seem to be the way to go. Anyone that has to crawl all over to fill the batteries up on this boat will understand. The pain is felt for the entire next day. Does the charger need to be set different for AGM batteries?
Click to expand...

The reason batteries are not covered is because if you deaden a wet cell lead acid battery a few times, you'll kill it... regardless of how new it is.... and if you anchor out a few times and run all the gizmos, that'll do any wet cell battery in. I killed my second set of 8D batteries on my boat in one year because they cycled too much... at 150+ pounds per battery, I gave up on wet cell and switched to AGM. (I actually had a converter/charger that was too small for the 12v stuff I have so the batteries where cycling even when the charger was running).

AGM batteries handle cycling better and would be a better choice if you are going to anchor out without the generator running... Read your charger/converter manual and see what the voltage settings are for the various battery type selections. AGM batteries charge with almost the same voltage profile as wet cell batteries. I've seen some chargers that have an "AGM" setting that has a profile charge like a gel cell battery and that is not the AGM type of profile needed... so get the AGM batteries and look up what the voltage charge profile they recommend and select the switch on your converter to match that profile. I'll bet $1 that just leaving your converter/charger set to the wet cell setting works just fine... that's what most people have done without any issues.

Can't comment on the other stuff... Haven't poked around a 36DB enough...
 
Last edited:
Kevin,

I don't think you have any series connected batteies, your setup is probably like mine. Type 31 batteries, two in parallel and 2 paralleled pair, one paralleled pair for each engine. The generator uses one paralleled pair, can't remember if it's stbd or port though. You may have a charger problem, not charging the stbd side. I had all batteries replaced by MarineMax when I discovered they had plates exposed. The boat was on the show room for about 5 months and the batteries dried up, and they didn't fill them up on delivery. I discovered this when I went to top off the batteries. BTW I feel your pain about battery topping off, will probably get AGMs when it's time to replace. We also had the charger replaced, it later fried and would pop the breaker.....which may have been why the batteries were dry in the first place due to overcharging and boiled the water off. The charger is a Dynamic something (?) and has been working OK since replacement. Good luck and keep us posted.
 
Thanks Guys!

I think Mike is right about them being two in parallel for each engine. I also forgot to mention that the boat sat in the Phoenix sun for two years before I bought it and shipped it to CA. Nothing was plugged in during that time (that I know of), but I'm sure the batteries completely dried up during that time. I can't imagine that these batteries will have a normal life span, given the history. Should have made a new set of AGM's a condition of the sale.

In any case, it sounds like the best way to go is to replace all four with Optima's, given the way we use the boat (as much hook time as we can get). I found the best deal so far at Sam's club - special order. $200 for Group 31's. Not bad.

Kevin
 
I've had my boat for just under one year...was hoping they would last longer that one year. Maybe the two year broil in AZ didn't help them.

Wetpaint, do you use AGM's?

Kevin
 
Just bought 4 of them at Costco for $68 each. They are made by Johnson Controls. I plan on replacing every few years so why bother spending so much scratch on high dollar batteries IMHO. If I ran far from shore I might have a different attitude though.
 
Wetpaint, you must have two for the bow thruster, two for the stern thruster, and two sets in parallel for the mains and house, correct? Interesting that yours are group 27. I think mine calls for 31's.

Gofirstclass,

I just priced the Group 31 Optima Blue Tops at Sam's - $200/each.

Sounds like the verdict is in. Batteries are toast - after less that one year, and we only use the boat for about 3 days/month on avg. Now the question...which is batter, Optima Blue Top, or Lifeline?

Kevin
 
Well, I think I've answered some of the questions.

Four Suns, now I understand (from another one of your posts) what you meant by cycling while on the charger. Too much draw for the charger to keep up.

Just got a quote from the guys that want to change out my batteries. $1100 for 6 Interstate Lead Acid Batts, $2200 for Optima Blue Tops (including changing the cables to marine terminal leads which it doesn't need for ~$300. The Optima's have both leads), and $2900 for Lifelines. Seems that Lifeline are the better batteries, based on the cost. And, on a boat that I've had less that 1 year. Are all boat maint. people thinking that EVERYONE is just willing to write the check? Not for me...

Two of the batteries they want to change are for the bow thruster, which are showing no signs of a problem. I can drive the boat w/o the bow thruster, so I'm not changing those until the actually die.

The other four (house and starting batteries), I think I'm going to pick Optima's up at Sam's and change myself for $800. These are the most important, and the hardest to do maint. on, due to placement.

This maint. company recommended against Optima because they seem like a smaller, less quality battery. Maybe they are vs. the Lifeline, but I think it's just lack of experience in dealing/working with them. They also said that regardless of the choice, a deep cycle should never be discharged more than 50%. How is this gauged?

Has anyone had any bad experiences with Optima Blue Tops?

Kevin
 
Just an FYI and this is info based on never having a problem with batteries

1) I change out every 2-3 years
2) I am always plugged into dock power when boat is not used. Thruster and battery always being charged.
3) When in a different port, 75% of the time on shore power.
4) 25% of the time on hook/mooring......generator runs 25% of time. I run engines in am and pm for 15 minutes or so...
 
After carefully considering the options on replacement Group 31 batteries, I think I've settled on the Sears Diehard Platinum AGM's. Same price as the Optima Blue Tops, but 3 year full replacement warranty vs. 18 months. They weigh 75#'s, vs. Optima's 60#'s. 0 degree CCA's of 1150 vs. 900. Reserve Cap of 205 min vs. 155. Amp Hours at 20 Amps - 100 vs. 75. Seems like a superior battery all around.

Kevin
 
These were a b*tch to put in, but they work a TON better. Spent about 4 hours on the hook last weekend, and batteries were still at 70%. The TV was even on for a couple of hours. The lead acids were toast and would be pushing 11 volts after that long. These were showing 12.3-12.4.

IMG_2542%20%28Large%29.JPG
 
boughtabouy said:
Hi All,

1. I had an issue over the 4th weekend where we took the boat out for a cruise and gas up (about 3 hours of cruising) and returned to the dock to get ready for the 4th of July outing. when I returned to the dock, I noticed a warning on vessel view. "Low Voltage" and "battery not charging". The next day, went to head out and Stb engine wouldn't even turn over. Checked water level, and found one a little low. Had to emergency start that engine off the Port, which was working find. Ran over to our anchorage, and ran the gen for a few hours to charge the Stb batteries (which worked). Both engines started after the fireworks, as the gen was running off and on all day while we were on the hook. While hooked to shore power over the next two days, both battery sets seemed to charge as normal. We spent another day on the hook, and ran the batteries down some, but both engines started when it was time to leave. The next day (after the night on shore power) I checked the batteries when it was time to leave for home, and port was fine, but Stb was showing 10 volts, and amps "0", which normally shows a negative number as the battery is charging. Any ideas? Bad battery in the series? Evidence now has shown that the alternator didn't charge the Stb batteries in one instance, and the charger didn't in the other instance.


Kevin
Click to expand...

Hi Again,

Just replaced all 4 house batteries, and still having problem with the charger (I think). After being out on the hook for a few hours, brought the boat back to the slip and plugged it in. After a couple of hours the port batt. was showing 12.8V, and -9 Amps (means that it was charging.) Stb batt. was showing 12.4V, and 2 Amps (which means that it wasn't charging, but rather something was drawing 2 Amps). I'm guessing that when I go back to the boat in three weeks, both batts will be fully charged.

If I look back at my previous post, I notice that the boat was on the charger overnight, and in the morning the stb batts (the old pair) were at 10.5V. Appeared to not be charging. However, when we arrived a few weeks later, both were fully charged.

Does this sound like normal characteristics for a charger? I with I had more time to tinker with it to see what it's really doing. However, 1 year warranty expires in about 1 week. Maybe the charger only works on trickle on Stb. side. Any ideas?

Kevin
 
Let the dealer figure it out before the warranty expires, certainly not behaving as it should.
 
Agree with the advice to have the dealer look into it. Something is clearly wrong and you could be setting yourself up for alternator problems as well. We were at a Tiara factory gathering two weeks ago. I inquired about the expected life of my gel cells which are still going strong after 6 years. I was advised to have my service tech load test them this fall. Nine years in our climate is consider excellent service if you follow the rules about keeping them up and not discharging them deeply. However, at the first indication of trouble I was advised to replace them all. Apparently using the emergency start approach on a regular basis requires the alternator to work overtime to recharge the battery and prematurely fail after repeated battery problems such as you describe. The Crusader alternators can not be rebuilt and cost about $800 to replace. I'm guessing yours will be cheaper, but this stuff begins to add up.
 
Verdict in: Their are three banks on the battery charger, and only two are used. The screw connecting one of the wires (banks) was stripped from the factory, and not connecting well. That explains why the Stb side was not charging sometimes. Solution, switched to the unused bank. Sea Ray is now going to decide whether or not they will replace the charger.
 
Update: Two of the Die Hard Platinums running in parallel are finally toast after 6 years. And they really got worked. I went to find 4 more, only to find out they have been discontinued. I really LOVED these batteries, which I think were private labeled for Sears by Odyssey. Any thoughts on a good replacement Group 31 AGM battery with comparable specs? 0 degree CCA's of 1150 vs. 900. Reserve Cap of 205 min vs. 155. Amp Hours at 20 Amps - 100 vs 75. The comparison here is between the Die Hard Platinums and the Optima Blue Tops.

Maybe Odyssey direct is the answer, although I have not checked into pricing or logistics.


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