340 Sound plan

[Hampton]

I have pm'd Teekster about all of this, but I am open to any suggestions.

I installed 2 outdoor Bose speakers (151's) on the arch facing backward. Being Bose, they are 6 ohms. I disconnected the speaker behind the bar and the one by the Captain's knee to get the power. The two on the base of the arch are still playing. They play well, but being 4 ohm, they suck the power out of the Bose's. Additionally, the one by the Captain's knee was producing most of the bass due to the large cavern behind it. Now I have very little bass.

Continued plan - I plan to put two MB Quart Marine speakers ( http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=16683 ) in the base of the arch, and plan to put one or two MB Quart subs in as well. One sub will go next to my knee.

I have a spare eclipse XA4000 amp lying around that I plan to use.
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-r2Q0UG...ab=morephotos&pi=2&i=099XA4000&display=XL#Tab It is rated at 125 watt X 4 - digital.

1) Can I split the line out behind the head unit - again? I would like to leave the little 40 watt amp hooked up to the two Bose outdoor speaker on top of the arch. Then, I would like to take the rest of the line out (split) to the new amp. The new amp would power the two new MB Quart arch speakers, and one or two subs.

2) Can I take two of the channels to one sub - I know I can put a big sub next to my knee. Maybe I would be better off with one sub there and one more elsewhere?

3) Can I use the 4-channel amp on two regular speakers and two subs?

3.5) If my subs are powered (I'm sure they would have to be), how do I get switched power to them, including the cockpit/cabin on / off function?

4) What advise would you have?

 

[Pirate]

John- If I may recommend....

Use a 4 channel amp in following config.

Ch1 & Ch2 power 2 pr cockpit speakers in parallel showing a 2o load.

Ch 3 + Ch 4 bridged power a sub showing the amp a 4o load.

Use your current amp to power the Bose arch speakers.

You can split the line output at the back of your head unit.

Take a look at the JL Audio M770 speakers.... you will like the response when compared to the MB Quartz.

 

[Hampton]

Thanks, Pirate. That's the kind of info I was looking for. You say 2 pr cockpit speakers. My God, with 2 arch speakers, and 4 others, and a sub :smt038 What about just the two cockpit speakers, the sub, and the old amp on the Bose's? (Total of 5)

 

[Pirate]

That would work, but you already have the holes and the speakers themselves are a fairly nominal expense since the wiring and installation is really done. In addition, running the amp at a 2o load will be more efficient than 4o. Besides, by the time you make custom covers for those holes, you've spent in time and materials what the speakers would cost. That said, one pair on channel 1 & 2 would work. If I can be of any help, let me know. I'll be happy to draw a schematic, etc.

 

[teekster]

I think you will find that for the same money, JL Audio or MB Quart (or many other brands) car speakers are much higher quality than the MB marines. For a while, those speakers were $130, but they have gone back up to $200. There are too many component speakers that sound good at that price. The MB PCE 216 is nice because you can mount the tweeters coaxially if you don't want to drill more holes.

Use your Eclipse amp to drive the Bose as well as the other cockpit speakers. You can adjust the gain on each channel to compensate for the differences in speakers (although I would still prefer the same drivers all around).

Looking at the specs on that amp, I doubt it would be good for driving subs. IMHO, the 340 needs 2 subs in the cockpit. There are too many dead zones with one (I know because I tried it).

The Eclipse amp is only rated down to 4 ohms in bridged mode. If you were only driving a single 4 ohm sub, that would be OK. Most subs are in the 2 to 4 Ohm range (mostly 4), meaning that you will need something that is stable to 2 ohms with 2 subs. Another amp will be necessary.

Here is the sub enclosure under my aft seat

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-k3yPe2lwzsR/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=217950&I=20606SKM10

I definitely think that sealed enclosures sound much better than free air subs (no enclosure). You could probably make something to fit in the space behind the panel next to your knee as there is a ton of room in there. If you remove the speaker that you disconnected and leave a grill behind, you will get the most benefit.


As far as the (cough, cough) "amps" that Sea Ray chose to give us, if you must use them, try running a channel to each of the cabin speakers. They are overloaded in the stock configuration with 2 4 ohm speakers per channel.

 

[Hampton]

Great Words from everyone. I'm learning a lot here. I've installed a dozen car/boat stereos in my life, and many, many speakers, but I've never installed/wired an amp.

Teekster,

If I wired the Bose Arch Speakers and the new lower arch speakers to the amp, would I then use a powered, enclosed subwoofer with it's own amp? Is that one you linked a self-contained unit? I would like a nice sound system, but it doesn't need to be a show model (such as your own). I could spring for an sub like the one you installed under the rear seat, if it doesn't need a separate amp.

Thanks again for your help.

 

[teekster]

I think you would be better off with a separate amplifier for your sub(s). The model I linked is a sealed enclosure with a pretty good sub included.

Running speaker wire to the cocpit is actually quite easy. The area behind the head unit is right next to the space behind the captain's speaker.

If you pull of the vertical seat cushion behind the captain's seat (several screws) and pop out the cupholders, there is an access panel to the next compartment. From there it is easy to get into the bilge and then to the aft seating area.

I would run speaker wire from your amp to this area. Also run dedicated power cables from the battery to the amps. I have an example of power distribution in my thread under modifications. While you have this open, it is a good time to consider whether or not you want to add a second remote.

 

[Hampton]

Copy all. For now, I think I may add the two new, lower arch speakers (very easy, and definately going to happen). Then, when I get ambitious, I'll install the amp - this may come sooner than later because the new speakers won't run well without it. Finally, I'll decide whether or not I want a sub, and if so, how much I think I'll need.

That will help me determine whether or not to run all four speakers off of the XA 4000, or just the two newest arch speakers and one sub. One step at a time. I've dropped a lot of coin this Summer, and though I have begun to upgrade the sound, it doesn't have to be all at once right now.

 

[teekster]

Good plan. I started my upgrades last fall and didn't finish them until last week. Take time to enjoy your boat as well as save money!

 

[Pirate]

Enjoy boat and Save Money? Aren't those endeavors mutually exclusive?

 

[teekster]

Enjoy boat and Save Money? Aren't those endeavors mutually exclusive?

touche :wink:

 

[Hampton]

P.S. I have to change my terminology regarding the Bose vs stock speakers (6 vs 4 ohm). The stock 4 ohms do not suck the power out of the Bose. I disconnected the stock speakers today with the Bose playing, and the Bose did not change in volume (you guys probably already knew that).

What I did notice, however, is that I could crank the Bose more (need more cowbell) with the stock speakers disconnected. Also, when I took the stock speakers out of the arch (before pulling the wires off), their volume decreased remarkably making the Bose speakers louder than the stock.

I like the idea of using car speakers, but dare I on the arch? I normally leave my top on, and the speakers were dry and dusty when I pulled them out, but dare I chance high end car speakers?

 

[teekster]

I didn't mean to scare you off of the marine MBs. They probably sound quite good. I just meant to say that car speakers at the same price point probably sound better. If this was a runabout or a ski boat in which they would routinely get soaked, I wouldn't do it. The only water mine see is from the sky or the occasional boat washing.

 

[Hampton]

Then more sound for the money!

Bose Installation:

 

[gyrospiro]

what kind of mount did you use can you pivot them to face towards the bow?

I like the look may do the the same if you dont mind.

 

[Hampton]

These came with aft (rear) mounts designed to be hung on a wall and swivel up 45 deg, and down 45 deg.

There was no way that was going to work for a million reasons - leverage on the bouncy seas was one.

I un-screwed the eight screws on the backs, removed the front grills (slide off), and slid the guts out. I then turned them upside down and placed the mounting bracket along the ridge in the bottom of the frame (you'll see). I marked holes, drilled them, and placed the mounting bolts in side pointing out with a LARGE, flat washer to distribute the load (The plastic enclosures are TOUGH).

I then slid the guts back in, replaced the 8 screws, and slid the grill on upside down. This allowed me to mount them from the ceiling, perfectly balance in the center of gravity, and swivel them level to down 45 degrees. (Drilling the bottom provided a lot more room for a large, flat washer on each bolt than drilling the top would have.)

The mounting brackets come in two halves with ratcheted teeth between to set the angle. One screw goes into the end of the bracket's rounded area like the hinge on a house door - it screws in and holds the two halves together and brings the teeth close to hold your chosen angle.

These can be made to face forward by disconnecting the speaker wire, removing the one hinge-screw, and swapping out left for right, then re-connecting - It would take 2 minutes per speaker.

NOTE: I had to fabricate a wedge-shaped chunk of plastic to account for the arc of the arch so each speaker would hang level. MDF would probably have worked. I used left-over Corian.

 

[Hampton]

Today, I mounted 2 MB Quart PCE 216 Component speaker sets into the sides of the arch in place of the stock, Panasonic Premium speakers.

The bass was immediately noticeable. These speakers take a couple of weeks (minimum) to break in, but they already sound very, very pure with good bass. Still have the amp to install, and possibly a sub.

 

[Hampton]

Prior to this week, it was obvious as I walked from the cockpit to the cabin that the cabin had fuller, richer sound. Then, this week, I upgraded more of the cockpit speakers (see above).

Today, Sirius was playing Ina Godda Da Vida. I cranked it up a little (Ch 16). As I walked into the cabin, it was obvious that the sound below is now inadequate and must be upgraded. That's how big of difference the 2 MB Quart component's make in the cockpit.

 

[teekster]

Prior to this week, it was obvious as I walked from the cockpit to the cabin that the cabin had fuller, richer sound. Then, this week, I upgraded more of the cockpit speakers (see above).

Today, Sirius was playing Ina Godda Da Vida. I cranked it up a little (Ch 16). As I walked into the cabin, it was obvious that the sound below is now inadequate and must be upgraded. That's how big of difference the 2 MB Quart component's make in the cockpit.

It's a disease, isn't it. :wink: I bet it sounds great.

I started out this way with my last boat. First I upgraded the amplifier, then the cockpit speakers, then added arch speakers and a sub (and more amplification), then replaced the cabin speakers (and amps), then added a cabin sub...

Before you know it, you will have replaced everything.

 

[Hampton]

Teekster,

Hopefully, I'll never feel compelled to change out the front cabin speakers - What a mess! At least you can do it in air conditioning, laying down - an occassional nap and all....

Still, I hope I never have to go there.