glocklt4
Member
Choosing between a 280, 300 and 320.. I'd like to know too! Since it has been a while since this thread has been active... anyone able to figure out why?
320 Sundancer Review
- Thread starter skolbe
- Start date
Choosing between a 280, 300 and 320.. I'd like to know too! Since it has been a while since this thread has been active... anyone able to figure out why?
trit21
Active Member
Since I am the person who wrote the question and we did purchase a 320 let me take a stab at why. I don't know if this is the reason but since we did own a 280 and now currently own a 320, I will tell you my observations on owning each.
280: Pros:
-Pretty nimble for this size boat, twin 4.3 alpha drives, boat gets on plane quickly, trim tabs and outdrives that can be trimmed and you can position this boat at almost any angle you wish, bow down to bow high.
-Rear seat folds down providing more room in the cockpit area but since the boat is still only a 28' and 9.5" wide, space will always be at a premium.
-Fuel economy was pretty good, after all the boat does have outdrives so it preforms pretty well.
280 Cons:
-Space is limited, helm seat and viewing from the the helm seat is odd. I am short but whether on plane or idling the bolster seemed to have to be used to afford a good view over the helm. No I am not one needs to see 3' in front of the boat either (like some who drive a car and have to see the grill) so I feel that position of this seat is odd. You either look through the glass or over the horizontal mounting bar for the windshield and 90% of the time I was looking over the glass through the eisenglass.
-Midberth is almost useless except for stuff you don't need to get at right away. Most visitors we had did not like to sleep there due to the confined feel.
-My wife had no place to sit and look over the bow. to see where we were going. All other seats in the boat are low and the only place to look is out the rear.
320 Pros:
-Well, more room upstairs and down because well it is a larger boat.
-Ride is smoother, walk around and not through the windshield is a HUGE plus. Ever take waves over the bow....well we did on one of our Bahamas trips for 3 hrs straight, over the radar arch of the 280 every time we hit. You know how much salt water gets in the windshield opening (yes even when it is closed an locked), well alot? I will never own another boat that has a walk thru wind shield...bad bad design.
-Twin inboard V- dives make docking easier once you get used to it. Takes a while to get used to v-drives and realized a little bit of speed will help you out alot.
-Wife now has a place to sit at the helm to look forward and see where we are going. Helm seating, much much better.
-Easy to fuel with the fuel inlet at the rear of the boat, on the transom, really good design. They also have the waste outlet in this area as well. Please don't fill the holding tank with fuel....that would not be a good day. Ok, so the design of that could have been a little better but don't think anyone would be dumb enough to do that...and no I haven't done that YET. (until I wrote this).
320 Con's:
-Ride angle, bow is pretty high but trim tabs take of that and actually seem to make the performance a little better. Many other have written the same things here as well.
-Fuel economy is not great, remember V drives and much heavier boat but it does have adequate fuel (200 gallons) as opposed to the 280 at only (100 gallons).
-Work in the engine room is tight. Now I own a 99 BMW 323 and a 2004 F150 and have you ever tried to change the plugs and do maintenance on these vehicle ? BMW I don't even try anymore, to the dealer. Impossible to get at anything. F150, still can't figure out how to change the plugs but working on it. So, yeah the ER is tight but not unlike alot of other vehicles, boat, etc. Maintenance can be done, it is not that hard, give me a break and stop whining already.
BOTH: Both boats have the bolt on swim platform which we really really really like. I do not like the integrated swin platform design. Bolt on swim platform is closer to the water, larger than integrated. Make it easier for swimming, docking, exit entry, diving and more room. Plus, if you need to change it out you can. Haven't found any advantages with the integrated swim platform yet for me. Lots of advantages for SeaRay (cheaper boat since less parts, no labor installing, etc) but none for if I owned the boat.
If I can think of anything else I will continue to write them in this thread but as of right now these are the major points for both boats. Did we like the 280, yes, do we like the 320 yes. Both boats are nice but at the end of the day, the 320 has more room, top and inside, rides better and just affords a little more of the things we like in boating. Is this our dream boat, no. But I can't afford my dream boat yet. Would I go back to a 280, no. Once you go up in size and smooth ride, you can't go back (well I can't and my wife can't).
If you have anymore question you can email them to me or put them here. I would rather you put them here so everyone can see it and get my responses. Please remember, these are MY observations and other may differ. Best thing to do is go see both boats for yourself and look at the points I made here, I think most of them will make sense.
280: Pros:
-Pretty nimble for this size boat, twin 4.3 alpha drives, boat gets on plane quickly, trim tabs and outdrives that can be trimmed and you can position this boat at almost any angle you wish, bow down to bow high.
-Rear seat folds down providing more room in the cockpit area but since the boat is still only a 28' and 9.5" wide, space will always be at a premium.
-Fuel economy was pretty good, after all the boat does have outdrives so it preforms pretty well.
280 Cons:
-Space is limited, helm seat and viewing from the the helm seat is odd. I am short but whether on plane or idling the bolster seemed to have to be used to afford a good view over the helm. No I am not one needs to see 3' in front of the boat either (like some who drive a car and have to see the grill) so I feel that position of this seat is odd. You either look through the glass or over the horizontal mounting bar for the windshield and 90% of the time I was looking over the glass through the eisenglass.
-Midberth is almost useless except for stuff you don't need to get at right away. Most visitors we had did not like to sleep there due to the confined feel.
-My wife had no place to sit and look over the bow. to see where we were going. All other seats in the boat are low and the only place to look is out the rear.
320 Pros:
-Well, more room upstairs and down because well it is a larger boat.
-Ride is smoother, walk around and not through the windshield is a HUGE plus. Ever take waves over the bow....well we did on one of our Bahamas trips for 3 hrs straight, over the radar arch of the 280 every time we hit. You know how much salt water gets in the windshield opening (yes even when it is closed an locked), well alot? I will never own another boat that has a walk thru wind shield...bad bad design.
-Twin inboard V- dives make docking easier once you get used to it. Takes a while to get used to v-drives and realized a little bit of speed will help you out alot.
-Wife now has a place to sit at the helm to look forward and see where we are going. Helm seating, much much better.
-Easy to fuel with the fuel inlet at the rear of the boat, on the transom, really good design. They also have the waste outlet in this area as well. Please don't fill the holding tank with fuel....that would not be a good day. Ok, so the design of that could have been a little better but don't think anyone would be dumb enough to do that...and no I haven't done that YET. (until I wrote this).
320 Con's:
-Ride angle, bow is pretty high but trim tabs take of that and actually seem to make the performance a little better. Many other have written the same things here as well.
-Fuel economy is not great, remember V drives and much heavier boat but it does have adequate fuel (200 gallons) as opposed to the 280 at only (100 gallons).
-Work in the engine room is tight. Now I own a 99 BMW 323 and a 2004 F150 and have you ever tried to change the plugs and do maintenance on these vehicle ? BMW I don't even try anymore, to the dealer. Impossible to get at anything. F150, still can't figure out how to change the plugs but working on it. So, yeah the ER is tight but not unlike alot of other vehicles, boat, etc. Maintenance can be done, it is not that hard, give me a break and stop whining already.
BOTH: Both boats have the bolt on swim platform which we really really really like. I do not like the integrated swin platform design. Bolt on swim platform is closer to the water, larger than integrated. Make it easier for swimming, docking, exit entry, diving and more room. Plus, if you need to change it out you can. Haven't found any advantages with the integrated swim platform yet for me. Lots of advantages for SeaRay (cheaper boat since less parts, no labor installing, etc) but none for if I owned the boat.
If I can think of anything else I will continue to write them in this thread but as of right now these are the major points for both boats. Did we like the 280, yes, do we like the 320 yes. Both boats are nice but at the end of the day, the 320 has more room, top and inside, rides better and just affords a little more of the things we like in boating. Is this our dream boat, no. But I can't afford my dream boat yet. Would I go back to a 280, no. Once you go up in size and smooth ride, you can't go back (well I can't and my wife can't).
If you have anymore question you can email them to me or put them here. I would rather you put them here so everyone can see it and get my responses. Please remember, these are MY observations and other may differ. Best thing to do is go see both boats for yourself and look at the points I made here, I think most of them will make sense.
glocklt4
Member
Excellent, thanks very much for all of your info, that is very helpful! I think we are pretty sold on a 300 or 320 over the 280 because of the space issues you mentioned(top/bottom/helm seating). I say that, but we haven't been inside a 280 yet, so I suppose it is not totally out of the picture yet. Being on a lake rather than the ocean, the fuel capacity doesn't matter to us. We probably wouldn't fill it up just to weigh less. We're still trying to decide for sure whether we want to get v-drives or sterndrives. Being on a lake I think we have a bit more wiggle room that we could go ahead and get stern, however the boat would be wet slipped year round (in Texas). Still doing a whole lot of research on that and the associated costs for yearly maintenance.
An additional question for you. How much more have you been spending on your 320 over your 280? If it's not anything significant (other than additional fuel due to less economy), then that is a plus for going ahead and getting the 320.
Associated with cost, do you think that the 280 or the 320 was a better value for you? We could probably get into a 280 faster than a 320, but if the 320 is heavily worth the extra $/mo, then that helps make the decision easier.
An additional question for you. How much more have you been spending on your 320 over your 280? If it's not anything significant (other than additional fuel due to less economy), then that is a plus for going ahead and getting the 320.
Associated with cost, do you think that the 280 or the 320 was a better value for you? We could probably get into a 280 faster than a 320, but if the 320 is heavily worth the extra $/mo, then that helps make the decision easier.
skolbe
Well-Known Member
- Oct 3, 2006
- 3,549
- Boat Info
- 320 Sundancer, Zodiac 290 Wave Inflatable Tohatsu 6HP, Boston Whaler 130 Sport
- Engines
- 350 Mag V-Drive - Kohler 5ecd
Bigger is always nice. But I was happy with my 260 for 4-1/2 years. I could be in a 280 and be happy, but have no gripes with my 320.
Alex F
Well-Known Member
- Nov 14, 2006
- 9,166
- Boat Info
- 2005 420DB with AB 11 DLX Tender, Raymarine Electronics (2x12" MFDs) with Vesper AIS
- Engines
- Cummins 450Cs, 9KW Onan Generator, 40HP Yamaha for tender.
IMO, the biggest question you should ask yourself on how are you planning to use the boat (what kind of trips, length of staying on the boat, how many people most of the time, etc.)? Everyone has different needs and preferences. After having 175BR we knew 100% that we needed a cabin cruiser with option to be towed by a family size vehicle. This is when we thought that 240DA was a great choice (still think it was). However, we were puzzled for quite some time for our next move when we've realized that our long distance trips were down to 1-2 per season. 280DA was the first boat on the radar. However, from 240DA it's not a huge step up and we already had much better ideas what comfort features we preferred. 320DA was the favorite, but cost of it kept delaying our decision. After doing more research, thinking hard, asking the same question ourselves as I posted above and getting great help from CSR members we have made the final decision and very happy we did. Since you're moving up from BR type your choice of upgrade could be different. I also didn't hear anything in regards to towing, however you said that the boat would be in water all year long. Thus, I would suggest to review if outdrives maintenance is worth the hassle. 280DA is a nice jump from BR type of boats and it has option of Alfa1 drives vs. BIII, which could save some of the troubles.
If the budget is tight and move to 320 can't happen for couple of years I would consider 280 and enjoy the cruiser. You might get 3-4 years out of it (could be more) until you will prefer another upgrade, but I'm sure 320 would be too small of a step at that point.
Hope this helps.
Good luck,
Alex.
glocklt4
Member
Thanks for the reply, Alex. Our plan is to spend time at the dock and be able to sleep there on the boat. Also cruising around to various coves with friends to tie up, cook out, swim and then sleep over night. We would do this with at least one other couple a lot of the time.
You are correct that we would not be towing anymore, even with the 280 probably (tahoe isn't really made for that much weight i'd say). While it'd be nice, we realize that it's unreasonable to tow a larger boat around, especially once or twice a season like you mentioned. We discussed moving the boat to other lakes around north Texas up to an hour away after a few years if we became bored with Lewisville.
The 280 seems like a good boat for a couple and maybe 1-2 children (midberth being small). The 300-320 seems like a better boat to entertain with and bring 1-2 couples out with us. We like to entertain so I think that really pushes us out of the 280 range. We usually bring 6-8 people with us out on the 200 sport now.
Yes, the T4.3L/alpha's on a 280 would be the way to go if we did go that route. As stated though, I'm still trying to find out how much more a v-drive 320 is going to cost up front and how much it will save me over annual maintenance of the stern bIII's. Going to make a few calls today to find out what it costs to have the BIII's totally checked out and maintaned.
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Alex F
Well-Known Member
- Nov 14, 2006
- 9,166
- Boat Info
- 2005 420DB with AB 11 DLX Tender, Raymarine Electronics (2x12" MFDs) with Vesper AIS
- Engines
- Cummins 450Cs, 9KW Onan Generator, 40HP Yamaha for tender.
Just keep in mind that having 320DA with stern drives will limit you also on resale. Majority of 320 buyers would prefer v-drives, so you may end up loosing on maintenance and resale. But, you have to do the math to get all the numbers right.
glocklt4
Member
Yep, definitely. Hopefully that reduced resale price would already be reflected in what we'd pay too though. Will not know all of the numbers until it's closer to buying time, but definitely lots of time to do all this good research now.
Ziggy87
New Member
We purchased a used 2006 320 this year. We moved up from a really nice Chap Sig 276. We have not looked back once. We have been on it every weekend since April 17th. If I had to do it again, knowing what I know, I would have spent the extra money 2 years ago and purchased the used 320. If you are serious about overnighting with 2 kids you will appreciate the space. We have 2 kids and whrn they were 10 the 276 was TIGHT and at 11 was uncomfortable.
If you can swing it, get the 320, you will not be disappointed. We have stern drives and like them just fine. May of the 320s up here have stern drives. Not uncommon on inland areas.
If you can swing it, get the 320, you will not be disappointed. We have stern drives and like them just fine. May of the 320s up here have stern drives. Not uncommon on inland areas.
glocklt4
Member
I called MarineMax and they quoted $330/drive to do impeller changes (every 2 years), $250/drive to do standard drive service (lube/grease change, etc - every 2 years), then $300 to pull boat out of water.
That about right for you stern drive 320 owners?
That about right for you stern drive 320 owners?
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larryp
New Member
Don't know about the impellers (yet), but it costs me about $60/drive for the lube change every year and $10/ft for a haul out. I try to do as much as possible myself, not only for the cost but to get to know the boat. to be honest with you, I actually enjoy it. It's theraputic!
glocklt4
Member
Also, how much more should one expect to pay for v-drive over stern on a 320?
glocklt4
Member
Totally agree with you. I wonder if I could pay them to pull it out and then do the service myself while it's on stands. I might have to look into that.
magster65
New Member
An 'Alpha' drive has the impeller in the leg but all 'Bravo' drives have a large inboard belt driven water pump. These impellers can be changed with the boat still in the water.
Regardless, you'd probably want to pull your stern drive boat at least once a year to check / change your zincs, check the bellows, grease the input shaft and gimble and get the barnacles off the props. That's about 4 hours work once the boats on the hard and $250 (at the most) for the consumables. There's the bottom paint too.
I only boat in the ocean and have owned both (shaft / stern drive) and I think they come out even with the pros vs cons... it's preference again.
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trit21
Active Member
Not sure where you keep your boat but removal of bottom growth and barnacles is a minimum once a month project here in FL. Outdrives are especially a pain in the ass to scrub as it is very hard to reach areas on an outdrive.
I can't disagree more. Maintenance cost are much higher on an outdrive. Not only the scrubbing as mentioned above (yeah things that are harder to do cost more for someone to do) but corrosion issues on an outdrive for a boat that is kept in the water, especially salt water, are always a concern. Every year your outdrive should be pulled and maintained, additional cost for maintenance.
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glocklt4
Member
Ahh... didn't realize the pump wasn't in the drive on the BIII. I guess that is a plus to have the ability to change that while the boat is in the water.
Do agree that once a year to check them out is a good idea though, so yes, that's $300 to pull plus another few hundred in labor to have them checked.
Does a v-drive not have to be pulled unless you hear odd sounds or vibration then? Or if you're doing bottom paint..
glocklt4
Member
No barnacles here, haha... but I'm sure something green would like to grow on the bottom here in TX though with our warm water. Speaking of .... bottom paint, i have tried to research but can't find much info about that.
Any boat that is wet slipped needs bottom paint it sounds like, to keep plant/animal life from attaching to the hull and breaking it down. How often should this be done and what is the cost usually for the 320DA?
Pseudomind
Active Member
- Jul 1, 2008
- 2,122
- Boat Info
- 2011 Hurricane with Magic Tilt Trailer
- Engines
- 115 HP Yamaha Four Stroke
Mine runs me $76.00 every 4-6 weeks for a diver to clean the hull botom, once the bottom has been repainted, it will typically help to retard the barnacle growth to a point, but only to a point, then the diving helps, that and running it.
glocklt4
Member
Wow, that's quite often. That guy has a good amount of work cut out for him working around a marina, ha.
So how about a boat in a lake that won't need that done? Is once every year or two years sufficient for having paint done? I will not be buying a hoist for a boat this large.
marqbloq
New Member
Let me answer your question (why do I rate the 320 a 5 or 6). A little profile: boat now has three summers on it (fresh water lake) and two winters (fresh water river) / has 122 hours on the engines, 130 hours on the generator / well over 100 nights sleeping on it giving my usage better than average IMO.
Based on my history now, I would have to separate my rating in to two categories, the general rating of a 320 and my personal rating of “my” 320. In general, I would give the boat a solid 6 and have come to appreciate the boat on many levels (cabin accommodations, roominess in the cockpit, ride quality in the rough, sleep quality and comfort, visibility and physical layout). Personally regarding my specific boat, well let’s just say it is south of 5 for sure (if you want to know why, PM me).
There are so many boat choices out there for someone and as one writer stated; you must first understand how you will use the boat. For my family and I, the boat is 50% RV (a place to sleep), 30% cruiser and 20% fishing platform and the 320 works very well for that. I still miss the 280 but have become at peace with the 320 and have even considered buying a trailer for it (which is one thing I miss about my 280) since I am not going to move up or down in the near term. In hindsight, I do wish I would have paid the extra money for the 340 with the 8.1’s.
Significant areas that I still struggle with after three seasons are the poor straight line performance at cruise, ride angle underway and much lower than expected quality (as measured against my 220 and 280). Now it must be said that I seem to stand alone in my assessment of the boat so take my opinion with a grain of salt as everyone else has been very satisfied.
Go Boating! (in whatever you have)
Marq
Based on my history now, I would have to separate my rating in to two categories, the general rating of a 320 and my personal rating of “my” 320. In general, I would give the boat a solid 6 and have come to appreciate the boat on many levels (cabin accommodations, roominess in the cockpit, ride quality in the rough, sleep quality and comfort, visibility and physical layout). Personally regarding my specific boat, well let’s just say it is south of 5 for sure (if you want to know why, PM me).
There are so many boat choices out there for someone and as one writer stated; you must first understand how you will use the boat. For my family and I, the boat is 50% RV (a place to sleep), 30% cruiser and 20% fishing platform and the 320 works very well for that. I still miss the 280 but have become at peace with the 320 and have even considered buying a trailer for it (which is one thing I miss about my 280) since I am not going to move up or down in the near term. In hindsight, I do wish I would have paid the extra money for the 340 with the 8.1’s.
Significant areas that I still struggle with after three seasons are the poor straight line performance at cruise, ride angle underway and much lower than expected quality (as measured against my 220 and 280). Now it must be said that I seem to stand alone in my assessment of the boat so take my opinion with a grain of salt as everyone else has been very satisfied.
Go Boating! (in whatever you have)
Marq
