27 people on a 34' boat sinks

I can barely imagine, and would not want to be one of, 27 people, on a 50 ft. motorized pleasure boat, tragic ignorance, to say the least......... out of presumably 20 some, adults, no one raised the question about safety or capacity, on presumably one of the busiest (potentially hazardous) water days, and, nights of the year????

A lot of things were really wrong here......gross inexperience, for sure,....excessive drugs, alcohol???,.....no one spoke the same language???.....no good answers...... 20 some, careless adults, made the decision, that cost 3 children, their lives.......
 
D-Sill-D said:
I can barely imagine, and would not want to be one of, 27 people, on a 50 ft. motorized pleasure boat, tragic ignorance, to say the least......... out of presumably 20 some, adults, no one raised the question about safety or capacity, on presumably one of the busiest (potentially hazardous) water days, and, nights of the year????

From what I have read this was a 34 ft 1984 Silverton...1 person every 1.26 feet.
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D-Sill-D said:
A lot of things were really wrong here......gross inexperience, for sure,....excessive drugs, alcohol???,.....no one spoke the same language???.....no good answers...... 20 some, careless adults, made the decision, that cost 3 children, their lives.......
Click to expand...

All indications are that drugs and alcohol were not involved, that most of the 27 were under 21 (cousins, etc.) - and that most of them were related. Relatives said the captain and his co-captain (brother in law) were experienced boaters. Experience doesn't always equal smart. The only thing really wrong here is a captain who carelessly put the lives of his passengers at risk, and should be criminally charged.

I have been on an 80's 34' convertible silverton many times - there is NO question in my mind that he had too many people up on the bridge (where else are they supposed to go? The rear deck is VERY small on that model) - and he rolled it turning broadside into a wake he didn't see. (pitch black, huge wakes from hundreds of boaters speeding home from firework display).

I'm not sure what there is to investigate other than the guy is responsible for three deaths.

Tragedies are tragedies. Clearly avoidable tragedies are criminal.
 
The last report that I saw stated that drugs and alcohol were not involved. They did report that the boat was a recent purchase. I believe what we have here is captain with no relevant experience with his boat. I agree with the previous poster who stated that he probably wanted to take everyone out on his new boat to see fireworks. Other than the parents involved I don't think anyone feels worse about this than the guy that owned the boat. I saw an interview on the local news this afternoon with him and he looks like a living corpse. He will remember this everyday for the rest of his life. The area was hit with a rapid moving storm and a marine warning was sent out moments before the accident according to News 12. The captain stated seeing a couple of lightening strikes right before a rogue wave hit the boat which made it turn and keep turning. I assume everyone on the overloaded vessel was tossed to the inner side of the turn and that contributed to the capsizing.
Regardless, this tragedy combined with the collision at dawn of the Skater and Hatteras will definitely get the local marine forces out and about for the forseeable future here in New York/ Long Island.
 
I moore in this harbor, about a mile away from this horror. Each 4th, Mr. Dolan, the owner of CableVision (and the Knicks, he has a 100 foot plus sailboat he pulls out a few times a year) has a spectacular fireworks show right in the middle of Huntington Harbor. As you can imagine, a large number of boats show up. At the end, they all blow their horns and then race away. I leave my boat moored and watch from this mess from safety, but when people go, they do it quickly. It is scary to watch close to 100 boats just dash away. What a sad mess...
 
tgalloway said:
D-Sill-D said:
I can barely imagine, and would not want to be one of, 27 people, on a 50 ft. motorized pleasure boat, tragic ignorance, to say the least......... out of presumably 20 some, adults, no one raised the question about safety or capacity, on presumably one of the busiest (potentially hazardous) water days, and, nights of the year????

From what I have read this was a 34 ft 1984 Silverton...1 person every 1.26 feet.
Click to expand...

Yes, exactly......very unfortunate.....
Click to expand...
 
TMK988 said:
I moore in this harbor, about a mile away from this horror. Each 4th, Mr. Dolan, the owner of CableVision (and the Knicks, he has a 100 foot plus sailboat he pulls out a few times a year) has a spectacular fireworks show right in the middle of Huntington Harbor. As you can imagine, a large number of boats show up. At the end, they all blow their horns and then race away. I leave my boat moored and watch from this mess from safety, but when people go, they do it quickly. It is scary to watch close to 100 boats just dash away. What a sad mess...[/QUOTE

I imagine this is, unfortunately, a familiar occurrence in numerous places throughout the U.S., on the "Fourth", I know it can be a little edgy here at times also...you have to ask yourself, "do we really need to do that" and if so, you really need to consider what "could happen"...and either avoid or be prepared for that "rouge" happening......what happened to these people is really sad today and you don't get a second chance....
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And as Turtle stated earlier, the CG has made an announcement this afternoon:

Coast Guard stepping up safety checks in wake of deadly tragedy
(07/05/12) JONES INLET - The U.S. Coast Guard says it is stepping up safety enforcement in the waters around Long Island after a boat capsized in Cold Spring Harbor last night, killing three children.
Patrols were out today, making sure boats weren't loaded above capacity and that boat passengers were equipped with approved life jackets.
Law requires any children under age 12 who is not in a boat cabin to wear a life jacket. Below the deck, wearing a jacket could prevent a trapped person from escaping, experts say.
The children who died in the capsizing last night were trapped in the cabin. It's unclear if they were wearing life vests. The 24 other people who aboard the 34-foot boat were rescued from the water.
The Coast Guard says it issues more than 100 safety violations each year to pleasure craft owners.
 
I used to do the fireworks in NYC back in the day. but even the most experienced captain will find it challenging to navigate the waters in darkness, with every one just going full steam ahead trying to get back to home port. Many of them drinking and completely inconsiderate. I can easily see a 34 ft boat capsizing in that, as usually the water is churning from all the boaters. It is so sad that kids had to pay the price. It is also sad that the adults did not see the danger in that.


When I used to boat in Philadelphia too many times have i seen during fireworks on the delaware river a parent with really young kids watching the display in a canoe or inflatable, and the kids not wearing life vest. I just want to scream out WHAT ARE you thinking???!!!!
 
This accident could happen most any place as many boaters start out with good intensions for a fun outing not thinking of the pending disaster they created. The fireworks shows all over are the same, many come early and anchor and some decide to arrive 5 minutes before and place their anchor over the top of someone else or they cannot set an anchor and drift into another boat ( or 2). After wards its mass exiting, go fast boats, cruisers, rowboats leave together and they are not courtious at all. Late at night, dark waters, over loading, currents, winds, etc. contribute to set the stage for something like what just happened. Every year Cincinnati has a very good show that many boaters ( 300 plus) come and anchor many days before to get that best spot and every year I hear someone calling a mayday from being hit or sinking when its over. I think with the volumns of boaters, the Coast Guard needs to think about safety broadcasts on the VHF, TV commericals pitching safety, no drinking and no over loading a day or 2 before a event and post no wake areas even in a federal water way until daylight. As a "Captain" ( 50 ton master) and member of the Power Squadron for 28 years I can speak from experiences about people killed in accidents on boats. Never is it good and most all could have been avoided.
 
We were out out yesterday to watch the airshow with several hundred other boats, we had 4 people on board. I saw many boats about the same size as mine with double or triple that amount of people on board and in my mind that's too many. In comparison to the boat that sunk there would be 23 people on my boat..... that is just insane.
 
tdschafer said:
And as Turtle stated earlier, the CG has made an announcement this afternoon:

Coast Guard stepping up safety checks in wake of deadly tragedy
(07/05/12) JONES INLET - The U.S. Coast Guard says it is stepping up safety enforcement in the waters around Long Island after a boat capsized in Cold Spring Harbor last night, killing three children.
Patrols were out today, making sure boats weren't loaded above capacity and that boat passengers were equipped with approved life jackets.
Law requires any children under age 12 who is not in a boat cabin to wear a life jacket. Below the deck, wearing a jacket could prevent a trapped person from escaping, experts say.
The children who died in the capsizing last night were trapped in the cabin. It's unclear if they were wearing life vests. The 24 other people who aboard the 34-foot boat were rescued from the water.
The Coast Guard says it issues more than 100 safety violations each year to pleasure craft owners.
Click to expand...

I am perfectly OK with this. There are too may inexperienced boaters out on the water. It amazes me how many don't even know who has the right of way. The CG can come aboard my boat any time if it means getting a few drunks off the water. I get the civil liberties aspect, but it is too easy for these A-holes to get out on the water and put other people at risk.
 
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Just heard about the number on the boat. I'm speechless. The capt. should be arrested for premeditated murder. He had to know that nothing good would come from his stupid actions of allowing so many on the boat.
 
tgalloway said:
Last report I read was that "the 1984 Silverton was a very recent purchase". I can imagine the captain telling everybody to come see the fireworks on his new boat. He has no idea how the boat reacts, or even that he is illegal. He goes blindly out to watch the fireworks with an overloaded boat with no clue. You see it every weekend and you wonder how this doesn't happen more often.
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OldSkool said:
Just heard about the number on the boat. I'm speechless. The capt. should be arrested for premeditated murder. He had to know that nothing good would come from his stupid actions of allowing so many on the boat.
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This could be a bit harsh...he honestly may not have known....but common sense should have told him something
if not common sense...the capacity tag would
 
Room for 27 people AND 27 PFDs? No way. Expect some kind of charges or stiff fines to come.

I carry 8 PFDs, there will never be more than 8 people on my 35' boat. I don't know where I would even fit that many people. Ridiculous.
 
tdschafer said:
And as Turtle stated earlier, the CG has made an announcement this afternoon:

Coast Guard stepping up safety checks in wake of deadly tragedy
(07/05/12) JONES INLET - The U.S. Coast Guard says it is stepping up safety enforcement in the waters around Long Island after a boat capsized in Cold Spring Harbor last night, killing three children.
Patrols were out today, making sure boats weren't loaded above capacity and that boat passengers were equipped with approved life jackets.
Law requires any children under age 12 who is not in a boat cabin to wear a life jacket. Below the deck, wearing a jacket could prevent a trapped person from escaping, experts say.
The children who died in the capsizing last night were trapped in the cabin. It's unclear if they were wearing life vests. The 24 other people who aboard the 34-foot boat were rescued from the water.
The Coast Guard says it issues more than 100 safety violations each year to pleasure craft owners.
Click to expand...

This incident was the captain's fault. I don't have an issue with the above other than they should have been out there that day and evening. They may have been able to send this idiot back to port and in turned save 3 kids lives...
 
I have been struggling with this and person capacity. Boats over 20' according the 33 CFR Subpart c do not have to have a capacity plate. I searched all over on my Sundancer and cannot find anything that limits passengers aboard. So I started to search to figure out how to determine it. The fed reg does give a formula but the specs from Sea Ray does not give you enough information to use the formula. What cracks me up is New Mexico formula which is

"If the vessel has no capacity plate then the following formula is used to determine the passenger capacity (Multiply “Overall Boat Length” by “Boat Beam Width”. Take that product and divide by 15. Round any fraction DOWN to the next lower persons. This is according to New Mexico law the LEGAL number of persons that may be on board a boat including children/infants. Length is measured along the centerline of the vessel from the tip of the bow of the hull to the back of the transom at the rear of the vessel. Beam width is the width of the boat at the widest point."
​

According to their registration process that would mean I could carry 28 people. They are nuts.

The other thing that bothers me which we will not find out the answer until they raise the boat this weekend. What if a raw water hose broke and they were not paying attention to the bilge pump kicking on? One of the witnesses said the boat got hit by a wake and rolled over slowly. If they had a couple of hundred gallons of water in the bilge, once that moved to one side would just continue the roll.

When I picked up my boat 4 years ago, I had to replace all those hoses since they were cracked and probably original. We lost a boat at the marina last year for that reason. Within 15 minutes it sunk.

Anyone here know what the capacity should be for a 1988 340 Sundancer? I think 12 is enough.
 
The math says my 270DA could haul 16....that is crazy! My CV-23 is great for 5 but the CP calls for 8. I limit the 270 to 10 tops with a few kids (cockpit seats 10)....thats's on flat water during the daylight with average weight of 150....6 is the normal max for me, Mike.
 
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The math for Old Skool is 10. She only weighs in at 3000LBS dry. Add 24gals of fuel, 48 quart ice chest and I'm only allowing 4 adults and a couple kids on board. Who thinks these formulas up?

BTW Mike, we are going to be full time on Shippensburg after the 14th on July. Might need to take a weekend and visit Williamsport again. I'll let you know.
 
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