260 Sundancer Thread.........Comments questions and answers

[liv2ryd]

So we have a chance at a pretty good deal on a 2009 250 Sundancer. In researching the 250, I go to
Sea Ray's website to past models, and also follow this thread. It would appear that the 250 is a designation that was used only on 2009. Models previous to '09 were designated 260 and the '10 is designated 260. The dealer tells us the 250 is the same as the 260, and it appears to be so. Any input from any of you experienced hands would be welcome :smt038

 

[ChuckW]

So we have a chance at a pretty good deal on a 2009 250 Sundancer. In researching the 250, I go to
Sea Ray's website to past models, and also follow this thread. It would appear that the 250 is a designation that was used only on 2009. Models previous to '09 were designated 260 and the '10 is designated 260. The dealer tells us the 250 is the same as the 260, and it appears to be so. Any input from any of you experienced hands would be welcome :smt038

Close, but not quite. The '09 250 is a bit smaller and lighter than the '05-'08 260. You can see the specs for both on the Sea Ray site if you look at past models. Doesn't offer the 496 MAG, like I have, and doesn't offer a Genny I have either.

 

[Dave S]

The 2009 270DA was the replacement for the 2008 260DA. In 2010, the 270DA was renamed the 280DA even though a 2008 260DA and a 2010 280DA have the same overall length. :smt101:smt101

The 2009 250DA was a new model that slots in between the (2008) 240DA and the 260DA. In 2010 they renamed it the 260DA...........CONFUSING EVERYONE. Way to go Sea Ray.:smt021

 

[Lazy Daze]

The 2009 270DA was the replacement for the 2008 260DA. In 2010, the 270DA was renamed the 280DA even though a 2008 260DA and a 2010 280DA have the same overall length. :smt101:smt101

The 2009 250DA was a new model that slots in between the (2008) 240DA and the 260DA. In 2010 they renamed it the 260DA...........CONFUSING EVERYONE. Way to go Sea Ray.:smt021

That pretty much sums it up, Dave.... confusing as all get out. :smt101

 

[liv2ryd]

Thanks for your responses, that's kinda what I figured since they did also change the interior layout in '09, and it seems like how each mfr. measures their boat is a free-for-all. It's a pretty good deal so we'll probably jump on it. :huh:

 

[skibum]

Do you mean this?
http://www.searay.com/boat_graphics/electronic_brochure/Company1729/1C1_23_74DEJAKVP74.pdf

No, that is the owner's manual. I have the hard copy of that. The supplement manual that Dave linked to for the 1999 260 was more technical. I searched Sea Ray's web site for a supplement manual for an '05 and couldn't find one.

 

[Dave S]

Skibum..........The link that Todd posted is the 150 page detailed manual and is the only thing that is available. It is no different than the 1999 "supplement" manual in terms of it's content.

Dave

 

[jballen]

I purchased a 2004 260 sundancer with a 350mag BR3 back in the spring. I have a couple of questions....The first being what is the normal cruising speed for this boat. I seem to have to run about 3800rpms for it to stay planed out. I can go as low as 3500 but the bow seems to stay pretty high in the water and i am doing less than 24mph.

The second question is one of the plastic guides on the hatch came unscrewed( they are the white plastic guides on the top of the door with 2 philip screws) and fell out. Is there a trick to getting it back on.

Thanks

 

[bjac]

I purchased a 2004 260 sundancer with a 350mag BR3 back in the spring. I have a couple of questions....The first being what is the normal cruising speed for this boat. I seem to have to run about 3800rpms for it to stay planed out. I can go as low as 3500 but the bow seems to stay pretty high in the water and i am doing less than 24mph.

The second question is one of the plastic guides on the hatch came unscrewed( they are the white plastic guides on the top of the door with 2 philip screws) and fell out. Is there a trick to getting it back on.

Thanks

As far as your speeds and RPM's they are pretty much in line with most 260s like yours............given the number of people on board....total weight....wind....and all the other variables. I run around 3800 cruising speed on my 2008 260 and can go as low as around 3200 before losing plane.
With your hatch as you call it...I assume you mean the sliding door to the cabin. Your in for some fun there. Mine went as well and the plastic guides broke into pieces. My wife could not open the door from inside the cabin without help. (could be a good thing......just kidding) Luckily after much complaining to Sea Ray about safety factor etc. they agreed to allow the dealership to redo the door track and all parts under warranty. This is about a 12 hour job as the windshield has to be removed and the entire control console as well before the door can be removed and repaired. Good Luck.

Bill

 

[Lazy Daze]

I purchased a 2004 260 sundancer with a 350mag BR3 back in the spring. I have a couple of questions....The first being what is the normal cruising speed for this boat. I seem to have to run about 3800rpms for it to stay planed out. I can go as low as 3500 but the bow seems to stay pretty high in the water and i am doing less than 24mph.

The second question is one of the plastic guides on the hatch came unscrewed( they are the white plastic guides on the top of the door with 2 philip screws) and fell out. Is there a trick to getting it back on.

Thanks

JB - I have a smaller engine than you and I can stay on plane at slower speeds than you mentioned. Unless you have something physically wrong (dirty bottom?), my first guess to why you're having a problem may just be due to not using the drive trim and tabs the right way. Conditions will dictate speed/RPM, but offhand I would say I usually am turning 3300-3400 and speed is somewhere in the low to mid 20's. I can go slower and still stay comfortable on plane, too. Top end for me is 40MPH.

Take a look at this thread - it's all about the '99-'04 260DA (the thread you're in now is for a 260DA, but this thread deals with the '05-'09 260DA. It is a different boat with, among other things, a different hull design. http://clubsearay.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23453

 

[jballen]

JB - I have a smaller engine than you and I can stay on plane at slower speeds than you mentioned. Unless you have something physically wrong (dirty bottom?), my first guess to why you're having a problem may just be due to not using the drive trim and tabs the right way. Conditions will dictate speed/RPM, but offhand I would say I usually am turning 3300-3400 and speed is somewhere in the low to mid 20's. I can go slower and still stay comfortable on plane, too. Top end for me is 40MPH.

Take a look at this thread - it's all about the '99-'04 260DA (the thread you're in now is for a 260DA, but this thread deals with the '05-'09 260DA. It is a different boat with, among other things, a different hull design. http://clubsearay.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23453

Hey Thanks for the info. The bottom of the boat is painted but I trailer it everywhere we go so the bottom is clean, except for the paint. I have read a lot of posts now and I beleive the difference is in the prop. The older 260's have the 24P prop and I have the 20P prop. It appears that is the 500rpm difference in the boats. Is there any reason I couldnt change the props to a 24P so I dont have to run the motor so hard for long periods of time? I assume running at 3800 for a longer period time wouldnt be good for the 350 mag motor but I really dont know. I will also try trimming the drive more this weekend if IGOR doesnt mess me up from going to the coast.

Thanks for any and all help.

JB

 

[jballen]

As far as your speeds and RPM's they are pretty much in line with most 260s like yours............given the number of people on board....total weight....wind....and all the other variables. I run around 3800 cruising speed on my 2008 260 and can go as low as around 3200 before losing plane.
With your hatch as you call it...I assume you mean the sliding door to the cabin. Your in for some fun there. Mine went as well and the plastic guides broke into pieces. My wife could not open the door from inside the cabin without help. (could be a good thing......just kidding) Luckily after much complaining to Sea Ray about safety factor etc. they agreed to allow the dealership to redo the door track and all parts under warranty. This is about a 12 hour job as the windshield has to be removed and the entire control console as well before the door can be removed and repaired. Good Luck.

Bill

Thanks for the reply

:smt089 I was afraid of that. That is the only thing i could see was to remove the control console. I wasnt even thinking that the windshield would have to be removed to raise the console up. I was hoping the console could be just unscrewed and lifted up enough to lift the door off the track to screw the sliding guide back in. Not sure I want to spend 12 hours to get the slide guide back on or even worst pay the dealer to do it.

I guess I will have to sit in the boat barn with a cold beverage and study this for a while.

Thanks
JB

 

[Lazy Daze]

Hey Thanks for the info. The bottom of the boat is painted but I trailer it everywhere we go so the bottom is clean, except for the paint. I have read a lot of posts now and I beleive the difference is in the prop. The older 260's have the 24P prop and I have the 20P prop. It appears that is the 500rpm difference in the boats. Is there any reason I couldnt change the props to a 24P so I dont have to run the motor so hard for long periods of time? I assume running at 3800 for a longer period time wouldnt be good for the 350 mag motor but I really dont know. I will also try trimming the drive more this weekend if IGOR doesnt mess me up from going to the coast.

Thanks for any and all help.

JB

Well, the first thing to check is your wide open throttle. I *think* the 350MAG has a max RPM of 5000. If you can easily get that (and higher), then a higher pitch would help. If you can just barely get 5000 (or not quite), then do not change. You may have a different gear ratio, as well. Or, maybe the previous owner propped down because he was always running with a heavy load.

Brand new, a set of Bravo 3 props is about $1,600!!!!

Don't worry about 3800 RPM's - you can run that all day long and the engine won't skip a beat.

Maybe your boat was originally sold to a high altitude area?

Remember to use the tabs, too, when you run it again.

 

[jballen]

Well, the first thing to check is your wide open throttle. I *think* the 350MAG has a max RPM of 5000. If you can easily get that (and higher), then a higher pitch would help. If you can just barely get 5000 (or not quite), then do not change. You may have a different gear ratio, as well. Or, maybe the previous owner propped down because he was always running with a heavy load.

Brand new, a set of Bravo 3 props is about $1,600!!!!

Don't worry about 3800 RPM's - you can run that all day long and the engine won't skip a beat.

Maybe your boat was originally sold to a high altitude area?

Remember to use the tabs, too, when you run it again.

Dennis

The boat was not sold in high altitude area nor did the previous owner reprop. He actually only had 29 hours on the boat and had not even seen it in 3 years. He had it dry stacked......It was a great find considering they had never even slept on the boat.

I will try try the trim tabs and triming the motor from the other posts....I just thought that running that hard wasnt good for the motor. My neighbor keeps telling me he has never had to run any of his boats more than 3000-3300.

I acutally can not quite get to 5000 WOT but really close 4950 I thnk.

Thanks for all input.....

 

[Hornblower]

Dennis

The boat was not sold in high altitude area nor did the previous owner reprop. He actually only had 29 hours on the boat and had not even seen it in 3 years. He had it dry stacked......It was a great find considering they had never even slept on the boat.

I will try try the trim tabs and triming the motor from the other posts....I just thought that running that hard wasnt good for the motor. My neighbor keeps telling me he has never had to run any of his boats more than 3000-3300.

I acutally can not quite get to 5000 WOT but really close 4950 I thnk.

Thanks for all input.....

Looks like your propped and powered the same as me. 3,500 is my minimum for staying on an acceptable plane too, but the bow does rise a little bit. I suppose I could use the tabs to correct but I figure rather then add that additional drag I just bump it up to 3,600 instead.

For what its worth I trim the outdrive up two notches from the bottom on my trim gauge. High enough so the boat is not plowing and the engine isn’t laboring, and low enough so it doesn’t draw down air from the surface. Just listen to the engine; you can hear the sweet spot or range.

My maximum RPM at WOT is a little over 4,800 according to the Tachometer, I’ll have to check it on the Smartcraft gauge next time I’m out.

Great find on the ’04 with 29 hours, I picked up my ’04 with 16 hours last September (I have over 70 now).

 

[Lazy Daze]

Looks like your propped and powered the same as me.

This is one reason why it can be so hard to to compare one boat to another. Typically, the higher the HP, the higher the prop pitch. But in both of your cases, you both have higher HP than me, but lower pitch... which means Sea Ray made changes over the course of this model ('99 to '04) to give it a little better hole shot, but also must have changed the gear ratio to compensate.

For what it's worth, don't shy away from using the tabs. Just drop them down a bit and you'll be amazed at what it does for your running attitude, without even affecting speed that much.

 

[wastinaweigh]

jballen,

Your performance that you posted sounds normal. I will look for the RPM/Speed/Fuel Consumption curve that I saved years ago and repost it if I can find it.

WOT is 4600-5000, so you are within spec. Going to a 24P propset will only hurt your engine, not help it.

You stated that you are turning 4950 at WOT. The general rule for cruising speed is 75% of your attainable WOT, which is 3675 RPM's in your case. This matches my boats performance almost exactly, which you would expect since they are the same boat and engine combo. I hit 4700-4800 WOT with full fuel and water, plus 30 feet of chain on my anchor rode and two adults.

The 260 is not a speed demon - its best cruise speed is going to be around 25-28 mph at around 3700 rpms.

Mine has a sweet spot right at 3700 RPM's, although I usually run it at 3650.

As for the use of the tabs - I use mine for two reasons. First, to correct any list that it has while running caused by passengers moving around or caused by a crosswind - this vintage 260 likes to lean into the wind. Second, when running into a chop, I sometimes trim the drive all the way down and push both tabs all the way down. This forces the bow down and makes a much smoother ride.

I do not normally need the tabs to get up on plane.

 

[Hornblower]

jballen,
As for the use of the tabs - I use mine for two reasons. First, to correct any list that it has while running caused by passengers moving around or caused by a crosswind - this vintage 260 likes to lean into the wind. Second, when running into a chop, I sometimes trim the drive all the way down and push both tabs all the way down. This forces the bow down and makes a much smoother ride.

I do not normally need the tabs to get up on plane.

I’m going to experiment with lowering the bow and using the tabs when it gets choppy. I was cruising on the Great South Bay on Saturday running 4,000 RPM/30MPH, as we headed west the chop got noticeably worse and the “Admiral” complained so I pulled back to 3600 and it got much better. Would’ve liked to have seen how your suggestions would’ve improved things.

I also don’t normally use the tabs to get on plane; I find this boat gets out of the hole without any difficulty. I have however used them on the skinny water in Hart Cove where I keep my boat. When the tide is low there so you might have only 2 feet between your keel and the soft muddy bottom. As I head out under those conditions when I find a small hole, let’s say 3’ (Only on Moriches Bay can you call 3’ a hole), I’ll jump up on plane with the tabs all the way down. This obviously keeps the transom from sitting to far down and the props off the bottom when going up on a plane; Otherwise its1500RPM and 10 minutes to the channel. I have 40 over years of local knowledge in that area, needless to say I wouldn’t recommend doing that with a sandy no less rocky bottom.

 

[jballen]

Ken

Thanks for the info. Just knowing that cruise speed should be about 75% or WOT is excellent.

Hey I looked at your blog and it looked great except a little out of date. I think I will start one. Its cool to see how other people use their boats.

JB

 

[wastinaweigh]

jballen,

Yeah, I need to update it but blogs are one of those things that wind up at the bottom of the list of things to do.

Here is the performance chart from one of the magazines back in 2004. It should help you, although you may want to fill in the gaps between 3500-4000*

RPM **MPH **Knots **Total GPH **MPG**NMPG **Range **NM Range **dBa
**650 **3.7 **3.2 **.8 **4.56 **3.97 **345 **300 **61
**1000 **6.3 **5.4 **1.2 **5.21 **4.53 **394 **342 **68
**1500 **7.3 **6.3 **2.2 **3.32 **2.89 **251 **218 **69
**2000 **8.6 **7.5 **4.1 **2.12 **1.85 **161 **140 **74
**2500 **10.1 **8.8 **6.8 **1.5 **1.3 **113 **98 **77
**3000 **14.4 **12.5 **9.7 **1.48 **1.29 **112 **98 **81
**3500 **23.8 **20.7 **10.7 **2.23 **1.94 **169 **147 **83
**4000 **30.1 **26.2 **13.4 **2.25 **1.95 **170 **148 **84
**4500 **35.2 **30.6 **16.7 **2.11 **1.84 **160 **139 **86
**4800 **38 **33 **20.2 **1.88 **1.64 **142 **124 **87

Edited to add: Well, that came out ugly, but hopefully you can piece it together.