240 Sundeck, Click, no start, new batteries, Where's my solenoid?

[JimGrig]

I've seen many photos and did some homework, but cannot locate my slave solenoid on my particular boat. Mine appears to be different than the other model years I've seen. Where is this thing so I can test it? Thanks much for any guidance.

 

[Espos4]

Should be right on the starter.
Starboard side, down really low and difficult to access.

You’ll need to lay across the top of the motor and squeeze your arms down below the exhaust to even feel the starter.

Alternatively, Removing the exhaust manifold and riser will give very easy access to the area.

 

[JimGrig]

You (quickly) answered my question as asked. Thank you. I believe I was actually looking for the slave solenoid that many photos show right next to the red reset button on the top of the engine. Do you know where that one lives?

 

[Espos4]

I don’t think there is one as far as i can remember.

The heavy red battery cable runs right to the starter.

 

[scoflaw]

It's inline with the y/r wire. Fused power.

 

[Arminius]

The partition starboard of the engine and dividing off the steering mechanical and storage area has a snapped in oval of canvas on my boat. Remove it for easy access to the starter. Probably the solenoid too. Fuel filter.

 

[Espos4]

The partition starboard of the engine and dividing off the steering mechanical and storage area has a snapped in oval of canvas on my boat. Remove it for easy access to the starter. Probably the solenoid too. Fuel filter.

That’s a convenient configuration for access to the starter area.

Unfortunately the 240 Sundeck of that era has no such easy access to the starter.

 

[Arminius]

A sabre saw would open it right up. A couple 1/8" tabs would allow you to screw the removed piece back and close your new port. A good marina would probably offer you that option when replacing the starter. By way of speculation, I got involved in replacing my optional halon bottle and figured I had about 60 cu. ft. to suppress with the original or the replacement bottle. Having a large port closed only with canvas should have increased the rated size. That could have been the reason the good folks at SeaRay did not provide access. But your boat may have limited access for an entirely different reason.

 

[Lazy Daze]

A sabre saw would open it right up.

I think you missed Espos4's point. A 240SD is not constructed the same as your boat. Different boats are often constructed differently. There is no "wall" like your boat has. If he used a sabre saw, it would be into the boat, itself.

Heck, in your 220BR, that entire stbd-side divider wall can be COMPLETELY removed in about 5 minutes and you can sit down next to the stbd side of the engine. Can't do that in a 240SD of this era.

 

[Espos4]

What he said

 

[jim98zj]

I just picked up an '01 240SD with the 5.7efi that needs a starter. If I remember my phone I'll try to do a walkthru on replacement with pics since it's so hard to access.

 

[Espos4]

I just picked up an '01 240SD with the 5.7efi that needs a starter. If I remember my phone I'll try to do a walkthru on replacement with pics since it's so hard to access.

Save yourself a lot of trouble and just remove the starboard riser and manifold. Still a bit of a reach once they are out of the way but it will be easier. Also gives you a chance to inspect the exhaust components and exhaust valves of your “new to you” boat.

 

[jim98zj]

Save yourself a lot of trouble and just remove the starboard riser and manifold. Still a bit of a reach once they are out of the way but it will be easier. Also gives you a chance to inspect the exhaust components and exhaust valves of your “new to you” boat.

Thanks, for the tip. The seller claims the risers/manifolds were replaced 75hrs ago, and they look new but I was going to pull the risers to do gaskets and inspect. I was hoping with just the riser off and not the manifold I'll have enough room to reach around it and pull the starter but I'm prepared to go all in as you suggested.

 

[jim98zj]

Save yourself a lot of trouble and just remove the starboard riser and manifold. Still a bit of a reach once they are out of the way but it will be easier. Also gives you a chance to inspect the exhaust components and exhaust valves of your “new to you” boat.

So my recommendation for anyone that needs a new starter for the 240 sundeck to just pay for someone else to do it. I've lost count of the hours I've got into this repair with a hurricane hitting in the middle of this project. I am mechanically inclined and hate paying people to do things but never again for this one... Here's what I can provide:

This will start easy, taking off the throttle/shift linkage from the starboard riser, you can pop the riser off by loosening the second rubber down on the exhaust and the 4 nuts on the bolts up through the riser (this is easier than undoing the closest rubber sleeve as the motion will be a straight upward lift this way from both disconnects). The manifold is simple, 4 more bolts. You can get a great look at some old spark plugs at this point so you might as well replace them (and wires) too. The port side can be easily done anytime with better access but with the tight area here I'd do them since the manifold is off. Then you get to the starter... so where is it? Good luck. It's still hidden at this point.

You can feel for it and even at 38 years old I'm pretty flexible and only 5'6" so I got in there deep but here's where I ran into trouble. The 2 bolts holding the starter on didn't want to budge and you can't exactly get leverage on an upside down wrench from the full stretch position you'll be in with only a few inches for the wrench to move. I managed to get my Dewalt impact driver in there with a 3/8" socket adapter and a 6 point 12mm short socket. This involves stuffing your impact down in the sump and blindly feeling to get it on the bolt. You can't remove the bolts this way because there won't be clearance between the hull and engine to back the bolts out more than a hair, but holding that trigger down for a solid minute or more was the only way I could get the bolt to turn at all. Mine was pretty rusty like the previous owner didn't have the plug out for yard storage or something and the starter was in water for some time.

Getting the new starter in will be a feat of finger/forearm strength and determination. I think I ended up laying on an angle with my feet pointed towards the port midship with my belly on the alternator to get enough angle and reach for my left hand to put the starter place and start one bolt a thread. You have to shove the starter down in the sump, then put the bolt through it, then line it up and hope for the best. Once you get one bolt started it's smooth sailing.

I replaced my 90amp fuse while I was at it because I will pay to have the engine removed before I go down in there again! If I had to estimate, I'd say by myself I have about 5 hours into it so far. If there was no struggle with the starter bolts and everything went smooth, maybe the whole thing would take 2-3 hours. I still have to hook up wires and then put everything easy back together over top.

 

[Arminius]

So I've turned the key and the gauges have come on but there was no starter noise. Old car habits come to the fore and I open the engine compartment of this 200 Select, 5.0. No visible solenoid. Then I am reminded to wiggle the shift stalk and be sure it is in neutral. Problem solved. But why would I look for that solenoid? To jump power to it in order to rule out other problems. The schematic shows a continuous Yellow/Red from the solenoid to the ign switch with only one interruption, the neutral lock out. I guess if I were nervous or something, I could identify the two leads of 4 to the stalk and then scrape and tape them. Then I could twist them together and jump to the Yellow/Red if the problem arose in the future. Just an idle thought.

 

[Pirate Lady]

On an Alpha there is what is commonly called a micro switch under the throttle cover. It temporarily shuts off things as you go forward to reverse. It probably was hung up, wiggling solved it. Like you said, sort of neutral safety switch. Glad it was easy fix.
Old habit- I jiggle the handle a bit before starting even though I’m told Bravos don’t have it. Old habits die hard.

 

[Fill Ess]

On my 5.0 mpi it's on top ... just left of the red breaker button, under the rubber insulator. But there's also a bigger one attached to the starter

 

[Arminius]

Original poster said he had a click, I missed that. I'd think that would mean the starter is getting power from the solenoid and is bad, assuming the selected battery is good and the connections are tight. I have but one battery but I also have a lithium jump pack. It has a USB cord that I leave plugged into a cig lighter converter in the port top gunnel shelf, front, otherwise forgotten but now keeps the lithium wonder topped off.

 

[Fill Ess]

@Arminius I would agree ..... wiring is good up to that point, if it clicks. That points to a bad/low battery, bad solenoid, bad ground, stuck starter etc.

I do sometimes have to move the throttles a little to start if they aren't quite in Neutral, because of the NSS.

 

[Arminius]

Schematic shows the red circuit breaker protects the boat wiring while the 90 amp fuse is for the starter. The micro-switch momentarily interrupts power to ignition as effort is applied to shifter stalk to move it out of gear, on injected engines it just affects half of the cylinders. This switch is not in solenoid/starter circuit. The red breaker could interrupt power to the ignition switch preventing power flow to solenoid. In my example, my gauges moved so I had power at ignition switch and could switch or short to yellow/red. The neutral safety switch would be the only possible impediment to getting power to the solenoid and hearing a click or better yet, the starter's growl. Well, back to boat cleaning in a very tardy effort to sell. True, a blown 90 AMP fuse would allow a click with a good starter but it seems real unlikely.