2018 Tax Survey

Discussion in 'The Tiki Bar' started by Jaybeaux, Jan 29, 2019.

Did your 2018 tax as a percentage of taxable income go up or down compared to 2017?

Poll closed Apr 29, 2019.
  1. It went up.

    22 vote(s)
    40.7%
  2. It went down.

    31 vote(s)
    57.4%
  3. It stayed the same.

    1 vote(s)
    1.9%
  4. It stayed the same because I voluntarily paid more in taxes than required.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Jaybeaux

    Jaybeaux Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    661
    Jan 3, 2016
    Upper Potomac River
    420 Sundancer 2004
    Naught On Call
    Cummins 6CTA-8.3's with V-Drives
    9KW Onan Genset
    Isn't that what I have?
     
  2. OllieC

    OllieC Active Member

    765
    Mar 11, 2013
    MinniSoCold
    Sara Belle
    2005 Weekender 215
    Mercruiser 5.0 mpi, Bravo III
    As a percentage, down.

    However like some have stated, my non reimbursable business expenses are usually right on the cusp of the automatic deduction for a family...so we'll see. I pretty much pay every year. Some years less, and some years more. Like some have said, I'd rather pay in at the end of the year than give free loans to the Government.
    May not have to worry about that as much next year tho....I'll have different tax issues instead - crossing my fingers.
     
  3. Woody

    Woody Well-Known Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Nov 20, 2007
    N. Wisconsin/Lk Superior
    2005 420DA
    Cummins 6CTA8.3
    Not questioning your intent, just the choice of words. You refer to 'taxable income' which is different than total income. On the 1040, adjustments and deductions are done first, that generates 'taxable income'. Example...student loan interest deduction is an adjustment to total income(you don't have to itemize to get it), itemizing or standard deduction is a deduction from total income.

    You can see that dividing tax liability by 'taxable income' would then give you a deceptively higher effective rate. In the process it would be ignoring the tax policy that allows those adjustments and deductions that are a benefit to you.
     
  4. midexp

    midexp Active Member

    249
    Oct 5, 2016
    Harrison Township, Michigan Lake St.Clair
    1999 40' Sundancer
    454 merc
    Yes it does have to do with refund. What "tax benefit" did I gain if Trump took $2000 less per year out of my pay in federal taxes but eliminated the $2000 refund I used to get back in at the end of the year? It's a shell game, not a tax benefit. Least wise for me.
     
  5. midexp

    midexp Active Member

    249
    Oct 5, 2016
    Harrison Township, Michigan Lake St.Clair
    1999 40' Sundancer
    454 merc
    Yes technically I agree, but I kind of used it as a forced way to save. It was the money I used for my summer well. With a reduced refund this year, I'm going to have to sell blood to get enough money to afford the well for my forty footer. Life's just not fair!
     
    sfergson727 likes this.
  6. Jaybeaux

    Jaybeaux Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    661
    Jan 3, 2016
    Upper Potomac River
    420 Sundancer 2004
    Naught On Call
    Cummins 6CTA-8.3's with V-Drives
    9KW Onan Genset
    I chose Taxable Income (which is Line #43 on the 2017 forms) because that is net of all exemptions, deductions, etc. One point of contention on the Trump Tax law was that people were complaining that SALT were being limited to $10,000. So to determine if the changes were good or bad, you need to take everything to which you were entitled in the old and new way. If you just took total income and divided that into your tax liability, it doesn't answer the question.

    I stand by my calculations :D

    I am not an accountant, but the math isn't that hard.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2019
  7. Southern Cross

    Southern Cross Member

    65
    Jul 29, 2013
    Alexandria, VA
    2005 320DA
    Twin 350 MPI, V Drives
    Thanks for the survey Jaybeaux. Back of the napkin math shows about a 3% difference in our favor.
     
    Jaybeaux likes this.
  8. Jaybeaux

    Jaybeaux Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    661
    Jan 3, 2016
    Upper Potomac River
    420 Sundancer 2004
    Naught On Call
    Cummins 6CTA-8.3's with V-Drives
    9KW Onan Genset
    So you're not a fan of the tax law changes. But you never answered the question asked.....have you run the numbers?
     
  9. Golfman25

    Golfman25 Well-Known Member

    684
    Sep 12, 2009
    IL
    281
    V8
    You can always withhold more.
     
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  10. Woody

    Woody Well-Known Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Nov 20, 2007
    N. Wisconsin/Lk Superior
    2005 420DA
    Cummins 6CTA8.3
    Hearing some of these stories is making me nervous. I'm seeing images of me pushing a shopping cart down the road picking up cans, on a positive note at least I'll lose some weight and able to fit all those pants stacked up in the closet.:)
     
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  11. boatman37

    boatman37 Well-Known Member

    Jun 6, 2015
    pittsburgh
    2006 Crownline 250CR. 5.7 Merc BIII
    Previous: 1986 Sea Ray 250 Sundancer. 260 Merc Alpha 1 Gen 1
    5.7 Merc BIII
    So just got our tax papers back from the CPA today so I ran the calculations. 2017 our tax liability as a percentage of taxable income was 13.55% and we itemized. Last year we had about $17,000 in write offs. This year we took the standard deduction. Our income went up about $5000 and our taxable income went up about $6000 but our tax liability was about $700 less this year. Our tax liability this year was 11.45% of our taxable income so we were better off by just over 2% under the new tax structure.

    2017: 13.55%
    2018: 11.45%
     
    Jaybeaux likes this.
  12. JVM225

    JVM225 Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 8, 2008
    Farmingdale, NY
    2002 410 Sundancer, Monaco Edition.
    3126 Cats.
    Not bad! The benefit that is harder to measure is what the tax cuts have done for jobs and the economy overall. More people have jobs now so they are spending more money. People spend money and business makes more. Dividends were pretty good for 2018.
     
    MonacoMike likes this.
  13. Jaybeaux

    Jaybeaux Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    661
    Jan 3, 2016
    Upper Potomac River
    420 Sundancer 2004
    Naught On Call
    Cummins 6CTA-8.3's with V-Drives
    9KW Onan Genset
    Thank you Boatman37!!!!
     
  14. Boat Guy

    Boat Guy Well-Known Member

    This is all well and good....But, while I'm happy people's individual tax bit might be down, it's not really relevant when you don't pay your bills... My point is, when we have a massive deficit and national debt, don't be patting yourself on the back just yet.

    Don't misunderstand, I'll be happy with a lower total tax rate...I really don't like even contributing to a fiscally irresponsible broken system...Seriously, if we are just going to kick our problems down the road for future generations, why not just reduce everyone's taxes by 10%? Why not a 20% reduction?....Congrats, right? Problem is spending is still out of control... The bill is going to come due.... In my opinion, our legislature has a fiscal fiduciary responsibility to provide sound fiscal decisions and start reducing our debt. I'd be happy to pay my share to make this country truly fiscally strong...Until then, I'm not sure what we are talking about.

    If we had a system where our tax bills covered our annual budget and included paying down the debt and we were able to do that at a lower effective rate....Then I'll be high-fiving...
     
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  15. Woody

    Woody Well-Known Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Nov 20, 2007
    N. Wisconsin/Lk Superior
    2005 420DA
    Cummins 6CTA8.3
    Buckle up, going by last years numbers we'd need a 1.3 trillion swing to just hold even.
     
  16. sfergson727

    sfergson727 Administrator TECHNICAL Contributor PLATINUM Sponsor

    Oct 12, 2007
    Washington Park Marina, Michigan City
    '07 340 DA, E97, A75, VV4, Soft Top
    '18 Boston Whaler 15 Montauk
    8.1 Mercruiser V-Drives, Mercury 60 HP Bigfoot
    That okay, according to AOC, they'll just print more money, so debt/deficit doesn't matter anymore.
     
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  17. FootballFan

    FootballFan Well-Known Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Jun 20, 2012
    Florida
    Marquis 59
    MTU Series 60
    Every time there has been a tax cut (from JFK in the 60's forward) the result was an increase in total revenue the government received from taxes.

    Tax cut is a valid tool to increase revenue.

    You are correct - we still have a spending problem.
     
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  18. MonacoMike

    MonacoMike Well-Known Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Sep 15, 2009
    Indiana lakes and Lake Michigan
    2000 Cruisers 3870
    8.2 Mercs
    85 Sea Ray Monaco 197
    260hp Alpha 1
    There are few things I will guarantee, one of them is fiscal sanity will never come back and they will ride the borrowing horse until it is lame and the country is bankrupt.

    MM
     
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  19. Woody

    Woody Well-Known Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Nov 20, 2007
    N. Wisconsin/Lk Superior
    2005 420DA
    Cummins 6CTA8.3
    As Boat Guy has said, Washington has been kicking the can, to the point we have more than a spending problem now. Snap your fingers so we had a balanced budget in 2018 and the National Debt still grew by .5 Trillion.

    If we proceeded with balance budgets from now on our National Debt would continue to grow. It's a safe bet that it'll grow even faster in the future due to rising costs of financing. This chart shows the weighted average interest rate on our outstanding debt, from GAO 2018 Audit.
    Debt interest rate.JPG
     
    FootballFan likes this.
  20. FootballFan

    FootballFan Well-Known Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Jun 20, 2012
    Florida
    Marquis 59
    MTU Series 60
    Good point.

    Consider the impact on the deficit we are carrying if/when interest rates rise.

    We have been in a world of artificially low interest rates due to the Quantitative Easing policies under the previous administration.
     

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