I tried to do a search as this must have been discussed here before. I took delivery last Thursday of my boat and got 15 minutes into my first ride and then "knock knock knock knock". Dropped a valve in the infamous #4 cylinder. Cummins has replaced 11-12 engines alone on my lake I'm told. Anyone else have this happen to you? If so, what kind of participation did you get/or hear from Cummins? I knew about the issues in the early 480's so that's why I focussed on the 6CTA's. I've been quoted $12,500 to repair and waiting to hear if Cummins will step up to the plate. Any input is greatly appreciated.
2005 420DA - 6CTA's - lost #4 cylinder @ 150 hrs!!!!
- Thread starter Stod
- Start date
trit21
Active Member
You should visit boatdiesel.com and talk to Tony Athens from SBMAR (his company name). He would know of problems associated with Cummins engines.
Asureyez
New Member
- Apr 22, 2007
- 1,535
- Boat Info
- Sea Ray 460 Sundancer Hardtop 2001 - SOLD
- Engines
- Cummins 450 Diesels
The big question at this hour level is did you follow maintenance specs and have the valves adjusted as per schedule. To burn off a valve seems to require very lean combustion.
Also has your habit to run WOT most of the time? I'd agree it doesn't seem right. With so many engines failing in the same waters, is there a link to a common mechanic?
Also has your habit to run WOT most of the time? I'd agree it doesn't seem right. With so many engines failing in the same waters, is there a link to a common mechanic?
skolbe
Well-Known Member
- Oct 3, 2006
- 3,549
- Boat Info
- 320 Sundancer, Zodiac 290 Wave Inflatable Tohatsu 6HP, Boston Whaler 130 Sport
- Engines
- 350 Mag V-Drive - Kohler 5ecd
As I read it - he just took delivery - so most likely the previous owner probably didn't maintain it properly (If I read it right). Maybe the dealer and/or previous owner ran the boat hard. Curious if you just bought the boat whether the engine was gone over prior to closing. If so, would want to talk with that mechanic first. If that is the case - expensive repair on a boat you just took delivery on. Did you buy it from MM? The boat is 6 years old. So, it would be interesting to see if Cummins helps.
I bought the boat from a guy that had the last service done at 120 hrs. It came from St Clair Shores MI. When I was purchasing the boat, I contacted Cummins Bridgeport to come out and run the tests for me. The guy there took my engine serial numbers, looked them up and told me they just did some tests for another prospective buyer back in July last year at the 135 hr mark. He started talking about blow by and other stuff and told me it would be wasting my money for them to come out as the engines were within specs and not even broke in yet. He talked me out of spending the $1k I planned on spending. I bought the boat after a sea trial and here I am. No word yet from Cummins on their participation. So far no kiss or reach around.
Sorry to hear of this bad luck. As mentioned, check on Boatdiesel.com but normally the 6CTA is a trouble-free motor. Valve lash adjustment isn't required until 500 hours but there is a time qualification which might be two years so Chad may have a point. I just had mine done by Bridgeway Cummins at 500 hours but eight years. I have found Bridgeway to be reliable, reasonable and respected in SE Michigan. However, I had their mechanic come on the sea trial with me just to get his opinion and I was willing to spend the money. Too bad that you were talked out of it. Good luck.
skolbe
Well-Known Member
- Oct 3, 2006
- 3,549
- Boat Info
- 320 Sundancer, Zodiac 290 Wave Inflatable Tohatsu 6HP, Boston Whaler 130 Sport
- Engines
- 350 Mag V-Drive - Kohler 5ecd
Wow - sorry to hear that. I don't blame you for not doing the test. Why did the other buyer back out? Good luck.
Alex F
Well-Known Member
- Nov 14, 2006
- 9,166
- Boat Info
- 2005 420DB with AB 11 DLX Tender, Raymarine Electronics (2x12" MFDs) with Vesper AIS
- Engines
- Cummins 450Cs, 9KW Onan Generator, 40HP Yamaha for tender.
While reading this thread I see two warning flags:
1. Very low hours for 2005 diesel vessel.
2. Something I've learned that with diesels you can't save the money on good surveyor or you might be spending a lot more.
My boat was in great shape. According to the hull surveyor she was mint. However, cummins tech was able to provide good list of recommendations where valve lash adjustment was one of them. My boat had just over 600hrs and this was due.
I'm a bit surprized that at 150hrs there was an issue with yours. But, I recall reading number of posts and complaints regarding valves go bad, so the minimum I would do is spend couple of hundreds to have them checked just in case. It's obviously easy to say that you should have done the valve job after the fact that we know about the problem, but this is where we can see an example on combination of low hours with lack of proper and intensive testing. It's very possible that good cummins tech could have herd some extra noise and advise to do the valve job ASAP preventing the failure.
I'm sorry that you had a really bad luck with the valves. These engines have great reputation of being rock solid, if properly maintained. So, it's very upsetting to hear such issues on fairly fresh engines. No buyer would expect this, but it could happen to anyone.
I hope that you get positive response from cummins to share the cost. Good luck with repairs and keep us posted.
1. Very low hours for 2005 diesel vessel.
2. Something I've learned that with diesels you can't save the money on good surveyor or you might be spending a lot more.
My boat was in great shape. According to the hull surveyor she was mint. However, cummins tech was able to provide good list of recommendations where valve lash adjustment was one of them. My boat had just over 600hrs and this was due.
I'm a bit surprized that at 150hrs there was an issue with yours. But, I recall reading number of posts and complaints regarding valves go bad, so the minimum I would do is spend couple of hundreds to have them checked just in case. It's obviously easy to say that you should have done the valve job after the fact that we know about the problem, but this is where we can see an example on combination of low hours with lack of proper and intensive testing. It's very possible that good cummins tech could have herd some extra noise and advise to do the valve job ASAP preventing the failure.
I'm sorry that you had a really bad luck with the valves. These engines have great reputation of being rock solid, if properly maintained. So, it's very upsetting to hear such issues on fairly fresh engines. No buyer would expect this, but it could happen to anyone.
I hope that you get positive response from cummins to share the cost. Good luck with repairs and keep us posted.
Last edited:
News was better today. Heads off and the sleeves out. That was the only damaged one. Didn't look like any metal got anywhere else so they are now NOT recommending the oil cooler or pump. That will save time and money for sure. Turbo and new head going in tomorrow and (knock on wood) I should be boating this weekend.
The low hours didn't worry me as much coming from MI. On my lake, I only do about 50-55hrs per year. So, at an average of 30 up there I just didn't see that as alarming. Cummins Marine has still not responded to calls from my service guy at Cummins Mid South regarding possible cost coverage.
I'm kicking myself in the ass that I let the guys at Cummins Bridgeway talk me out of the shakedown I wanted them to do. Heck, had the 15 minutes I had run it were part of the time they would have been doing diagnostics, the valve would have dropped on the original owner and Cummins may have been more forthcoming in the cost participation.
The low hours didn't worry me as much coming from MI. On my lake, I only do about 50-55hrs per year. So, at an average of 30 up there I just didn't see that as alarming. Cummins Marine has still not responded to calls from my service guy at Cummins Mid South regarding possible cost coverage.
I'm kicking myself in the ass that I let the guys at Cummins Bridgeway talk me out of the shakedown I wanted them to do. Heck, had the 15 minutes I had run it were part of the time they would have been doing diagnostics, the valve would have dropped on the original owner and Cummins may have been more forthcoming in the cost participation.
Alex F
Well-Known Member
- Nov 14, 2006
- 9,166
- Boat Info
- 2005 420DB with AB 11 DLX Tender, Raymarine Electronics (2x12" MFDs) with Vesper AIS
- Engines
- Cummins 450Cs, 9KW Onan Generator, 40HP Yamaha for tender.
That's good to hear. Hopefully it'll be over soon and with minimum expense.
I guess, as with any situation, all we can say just live and learn. Don't we all? Unfortunatelly, you had to learn it the hard way, but what can you do, such a life...you just can't always win. BTW, one other thing could have save you all the trouble if you weren't too shy and posted your question here on CSR prior making the final decision. You would get number of suggestions helping you to avoid making the mistake. Thanks to some CSR members I was saved several times. So, another lesson we could all learn is never rush with the purchase process. The boat is not going anywhere until you buy it. It's not like there are lines of buyers out there just for this boat. By taking it slowly you allow yourself to review the proper steps in the overall process and identify what's missing.
Keep us posted how the repairs go.
I guess, as with any situation, all we can say just live and learn. Don't we all? Unfortunatelly, you had to learn it the hard way, but what can you do, such a life...you just can't always win. BTW, one other thing could have save you all the trouble if you weren't too shy and posted your question here on CSR prior making the final decision. You would get number of suggestions helping you to avoid making the mistake. Thanks to some CSR members I was saved several times. So, another lesson we could all learn is never rush with the purchase process. The boat is not going anywhere until you buy it. It's not like there are lines of buyers out there just for this boat. By taking it slowly you allow yourself to review the proper steps in the overall process and identify what's missing.
Keep us posted how the repairs go.
cod
Active Member
Don't beat yourself up over not having the engines surveyed. Who's to say that the diesel surveyor would have picked up on and internal problem. Highly unlikely in my opinion. If it happened during the survey, you may have ended up in a legal battle with the owner accussing the mechanic of doing something wrong. 150 hours is nothing for these engines. Probably the worst thing you can do is not run them enough. These engines are built to run and the biggest culprit is extended periods of time without use. Get it fixed and use it often......
Well, repairs are complete and boat runs well. The Cummins mechanic even left my bilge in great shape too. I did get an email late yesterday stating that Cummins was going to pay for 100% of parts not including consumables (filters, oil, etc). I'm happpy with that and cudos to Cummins for stepping up out of warranty. I haven't see my final cost yet but it should be somewhere in the $6k's.
Alex F
Well-Known Member
- Nov 14, 2006
- 9,166
- Boat Info
- 2005 420DB with AB 11 DLX Tender, Raymarine Electronics (2x12" MFDs) with Vesper AIS
- Engines
- Cummins 450Cs, 9KW Onan Generator, 40HP Yamaha for tender.
I'm glad that Cummins stepped in and you're back on water. Now it's time to enjoy the boat.
Bottom Line
Well-Known Member
- Oct 6, 2006
- 1,809
- Boat Info
- 2003 360 DA
2002 Sea Doo GTI (sold)
2002 300 DA (sold)
- Engines
- Twin Mercruiser 8.1L
Westerbeke Generator
Stod...congrats on the new boat...and getting the repair done. You don't see that many diesel 420/44DA at LOTO. Most in that size are gas. Do you keep the boat at a house/condo? We are on Table Rock.
Sum Escape
Member
- Apr 7, 2009
- 393
- Boat Info
- 2020 Tiara 53 Flybridge
- Engines
- CAT C 12.9 1000 HP Straight Shaft
Likely around 2200 RPMs (unless of course you want to proceed at idle speed!)
First_Mate
New Member
Has anyone ever measured lash on a 6CTA before it subsequently failed? Are there signs of the valve elongating prior to failing? Or of a receding seat perhaps? Would the lash get tighter?
Also, which valve failed? Assuming exhaust...
Also, which valve failed? Assuming exhaust...
Gofirstclass
Well-Known Member
Stod, glad to hear that Cummins stepped up to help with the repair costs. That's a VERY nice thing on their part.
Did you buy the boat through a dealer in the Lake St. Clair area or from a private owner? If a dealer, would you mind sharing the company name (either on here or in a PM to me). I'm just curious. I bought my boat from a dealer there last year and caught them in several lies. Just wondering if it was the same dealer.
GFC
