2005 420 Sundancer w/ Cummins 6CTA 8.3 advice

J

JHeide58

New Member
Feb 1, 2022
9
Port Jefferson, NY
Boat Info
1988 Hatteras Double Cabin 40
Engines
Caterpillar 3208TA
Greetings all,
We are actively looking for a 44 or 420 Sundancer and we’ve got our eye on one in particular. I’d appreciate some insight. Boat is the 420 model and has 6CTA 8.3 417hp engines.
1.Is that a good match to this boat power-wise, gets on plane easily enough and has respectable cruise speed?
2. This I believe is the pure mechanical version without Smartcraft? Pros cons? My mechanic likes fewer sensors and wife likes less smoke. Are these noticeably smoky with diesel fumes? (Coming out of a ‘88 Hatteras and wife didn’t appreciate the fume trail at startup around our marina neighbors)
3. With V-drives, how easily is access made to the shaft seals?
4. Is there enough access around the outboard sides of the motors to service what needs to be serviced?
Well, this is my starter list. If you’ve made it this far I’d appreciate any and all input.
Thanks in advance.
john in port jeff
 
there are more than a few here with that particular model and I'm sure they'll chime in but I was close on a 42 with the 6CTA's myself and you'll find almost no bad press on that engine. Fully mechanical but no smoke on startup or running (if they're in good shape), relatively cheap to service. I've read the valve adjustment can be a DIY job, as an example.

V drives are a pain for the seals but doable. The 420 I I looked at had a huge engine room hatch that lifs completely out of the way so getting to all components, even the outboard side of the engines and behind toward the transom looked reasonable accessible.

I think the later 420 and 44's got the electronic QSC(?) which has some things to keep an eye out for.
 
First, tons of great info here:

http://clubsearay.com/index.php?threads/420-da-thread.1273/

There are two versions of engines for the 420, the 6CTA 450C which is full mechanical and the 480CE which has electronic fuel. Both good engines and suit the boat well, no power issues at all. The 480CE was WAY over propped by the factory so read up in the thread above and elsewhere here on that issue.

The 44, which was 2006+ all came with QSC 500's which are full electronic.

My wife is SUPER sensitive to diesel smoke, we had a 44 with QSC and she never had an issue with our engines. However we have been next to 450C powered 420's on cool mornings (low 60's) and she could definitely pick up an odor.

Access everywhere is decent, no where near as much room as I would like, but you can get to everything.
 
I sold my 2004 420 last summer. The fellow that started the 420 thread that Waterhouse linked to always said it was the BEST boat/engine package that Sea Ray ever made. She will run 2200 rpm all day and will get close to 1.0 mpg making 24-26 mph depending on how she’s loaded down, wind and current.

Huge engine room to do daily checks, annual maintenance and even the aftercoolers and heat exchangers. The real inconvenient thing is Racor filters. Port side best done from the top, Starboard side done laying over exhaust tube and water heater.

Im not going to lie, there is a bit of smoke at startup. Especially if the water temperature is chilly. Mine had intact grid heaters. Some people like them, some don’t. Once the engines warmed up, the smoke was none existent. I had a valve adjustment performed right before I sold her. There was a little adjustment required, but not much. I was curious to see if that helped with smoke at startup. The new owner is on my dock, so maybe I can report back in April.

Great boat. Be nice to her and she’ll be nice to you.
 
I have a 2005 420 with 480CE engines. I did have an issue with the port engine, it wasn't the valve seat drop problem. It just seized the number 6 cylinder. The failure came at 600 hours. After some investigation and many emails to Tony at Seaboard Marine we concluded that the boat was way over propped from Searay. I had the motor repaired and installed the revised head to prevent the valve issue (as I said the valve seat didn't drop) in the future. I took 2" out of the props down to 25" from 27". Searay propped the 450 Cummins 420 with 25". Yes they smoke a little in the spring when the water is cold, but it doesn't last too long. We went on Americas Great Loop in 2018 - 2019, traveled 6000 miles, burned 5600 gallons of fuel and had NO PROBLEMS. I now have over 1600 hours on the motors, I am very confident in them.
I agree the 420/44 are designed perfectly. You will enjoy the new boat!
 
I have the 2003 420 with the full mechanical 6CTAs. As Jaybeaux stated, there is a little smoke at start up, but once warmed up, almost not noticeable. Wonderful access to the outboard side of the starboard engine and not to bad on the portside. The rear of the ER is wide open. The gen is mounted outboard of the rear of the port engine and can be somewhat of a challenge, but I have not any issues.

Also owned a 44DB with the QSC 500s. All electronic with SmartCraft. 0 smoke ever-cold or hot....Smart Craft is a good thing. I never had an issue and also had it on our first cruiser. However, the sensors can something to deal with. The issue is the sensor can go bad, put the engine in guardian mode, and there is really no problem. I never had that happen, but I have heard of it. I would, in a heart beat, go back to the QSCs and Smart Craft. The 420 and the 44 are both great boats. Be mindful of the valve issues with the overpropping of the 480CE edition and go forward.

Bennett
 
Excellent info all….thank you!
Closing in on an offer hopefully soon.
Pics will follow once the proud new papà finishes the cigar.
 
Okay, I'm still here asking away. I want to clarify which engines these are. The vessel is a 2005 420DA. The engines are advertised as Cummins 6CTA 8.3's 417 hp ea. I was googling to see where this 417hp number comes from...can't find that. I'm adding two pics, can someone tell me what engines these are? I do see a sticker on the side that says Diamond....
 

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JHeide58 said:
Okay, I'm still here asking away. I want to clarify which engines these are. The vessel is a 2005 420DA. The engines are advertised as Cummins 6CTA 8.3's 417 hp ea. I was googling to see where this 417hp number comes from...can't find that. I'm adding two pics, can someone tell me what engines these are? I do see a sticker on the side that says Diamond....
Click to expand...
It’s Cummins 6CTA-M3. Either CPL 2172 or 8089. The switch over occurred in 2003. You’d have to look at the data plate on the engine to see which one you have. Only difference is the 2172 has four hole fuel injector and 8089 has five hole fuel injector. Same amount of fuel goes in but five smaller drops burns with less smoke than 4 bigger drops. It’s easy to replace the four hole with the five hole if you choose to. Just money.

Its a 430hp max output engine. 417hp is a Sea Ray number reflecting its rating at the prop.

The 480CE mentioned is the next generation of that same engine and officially is the 6CTA-M4.
 
Perfect. Thank you. I'm meeting broker, and boat, in three days. Is there a way to determine visually the 2172 or 8089 variant?
 
JHeide58 said:
Perfect. Thank you. I'm meeting broker, and boat, in three days. Is there a way to determine visually the 2172 or 8089 variant?
Click to expand...
Not that I know of other than the data plate. It’s at the top of the front of the engine just behind the coolant tank.
 
Gotta love yet another broker who doesn't know what motors are in the boat he is selling. Hopefully you do not ask the selling broker for a maintenance/service history...
 
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