2005 420 Sedan Bridge - Battery Charging Issues.

[Tenacious]

I searched but could'nt find anything specific to my question so I started this new thread. Sorry if it turns out to be a repeat.

I recently purchased an immaculate 420 with 240 hours. It's powered by Cummins 480 CE's (446HP). Broker installed six new interstate batteries at start if season and upon my taking delivery, as a result of survey.

After putting on about 20 hours I've noticed the port side batteries seem not to charge when underway. If I run generator there are no issues but without, the batteries will eventually faiil. The morning after a recent overnight at anchorage was met with dead house batteries. The only thing on during the overnght were the galley and cockpit fridge. These same batteries are evidently used for starting the generator as when I tried, gen would not turn over. I then went to bridge and started starboard engine with no issue but port engine would not start without emergency bypass. I ran them both hoping I could then start gen but that did not work. As a result, I swapped out the thruster batteries with the house and was then able to start generator and charge all. Upon doing so the port engine also started without the need for bypass. After starting generator I left on for a couple hours and all batteries charged with no more issues.

To further explain the layout, there is one battery bank on the starboard side for the bow thruster set up for 24V. There are two banks on the port side. The one forward to port is the one which seems to lose charge and die. I half hoped that I may have had a bad battery and by swapping could identify this as such but that was not the case as issue still occurrs.

While underway and with generator off, I've been monitoring the smartcraft gauge for the batteries and see that the port side seems to be drawn down by something. When underway we listen to Siruis and have have nav electornics and fridge on but that's it. This should not cause the issue. I've checked the DC panel to insure I'm not running anything I shouldnt be and all appears as it should.

Could this issue be simply due to faulty alt on port engine? Or maybe just a lose belt? I've never had one go bad before.

Thanks for any info that anyone is able to share!

 

[Steve36]

What does your Volt Meter read when you are cruising (without the Genny on). I had a similar problem on my boat and traced it to loose connections on the batteries. I would go ahead and check that before anything else.

Good luck.

 

[dantheman]

I've had a charging wire corode at the isolator, maybe take a look there. I gave a tug on the wire and it came right out, all green.

 

[Tenacious]

VM drops to under 10 at cruise on stbd engine with no gen. The other side is at 12+.

 

[Tenacious]

Thanks. I'll check that as well.

 

[Tenacious]

To anyone who may be interested, the V/M drop below 12 was indicative of alt. failure. Batteries take a charge from gen. when running, or from shore power when in the slip but when I shut down external power sources and check batteries, they were not being charged. Had a mechanic check and he confirmed. Advised that the alt. on the 480 c-series is really undersized for the needs of the motors plus accessories... which I have a lot of. Cummins does make a larger one but does not use it on this motor. ??? Anyway, he pulled both and had rebuilt using a lower gauge wire which will increase longevity. Once both alts. were back in and with engines running my V/M on both starboard and port was at 14+. Nice! Problem resolved. Cost to rebuild alt. was $50 ea. plus a $50 expediting fee per (rebulit while he waited.) = $200.00, plus same day service on pulling and reinstalling both alt. = $800.00 for a grand total of $1,000. Not cheap but a lot less than 2 new alt.

 

[Alex F]

I'm glad the issue is solved. I was actually thinking about and talking to other DB owner regarding not using the genny as soon as you leave the dock. It seams that majority start up their genny the minute they disconnect the shore power and shut it down when return to a slip. I would imagine that the alternators should be properly sized to keep the batteries charged while the mains are running. So, if you don't need A/C in the main salon I think it's an overkill to run the genny just for the fridge.

Can you share your exepriense with cruising while the genny is off (after the alts. were fixed)?

 

[Four Suns]

I would imagine that the alternators should be properly sized to keep the batteries charged while the mains are running. So, if you don't need A/C in the main salon I think it's an overkill to run the genny just for the fridge.

Can you share your exepriense with cruising while the genny is off (after the alts. were fixed)?

My fridge and freezer are 120v... it can't run on 12v... and people are generally down in the cabin while the boat is running and most of the other crap is 120v as well... and it all gets used. A typical "run" for us though is 4-5 hours... I can't tell people to turn off the 120v stuff... it's not boating without cold food/ice/beer and a microwave, 4 TV's with sat hookup, air conditioning, playstation and surfing the Internet... how do you people LIVE??!!!!

I don't worry about the generator... its a low-rpm (1800) non-turbo 4 cylinder diesel and people get 20,000+ hours on these things. They are designed to run forever.

 

[Tenacious]

While I went through this process I worried about the batteries not charging so if the trip was longer that 1.5 - 2 hrs. I would run the gen. At about the 2 hour mark I would see the port batteries go below 10 if gen was not on. I hbought a jump pack now just to be safe but as long as I watched it, did not have a problem. On the hook I would need to start gen ever so often to insure batteries were charged. I needed to do more than usual. Now I have no issues whatsoever. Last week I ran from CT to the Vineyard, Nantucket, Falmouth, Newport, (all without running the gen while underway.) At no time was there a drop in battery charge. With that being said I try to keep as much of my toys off as possible as I don't want to tax the alt. (Mechanic suggested this) I have two frig. units which must stay on while underway but I shut my DSS sat. system down as it's rigged for 12 volt operation and does draw juice. I have a cockpit camera and 19" LED on bridge which I also keep powered down through separate accessory switch. Otherwise, the only things on are my electronics, Raymarine C120, Navigator II, VHF, and Serius. Boat runs as it should with V/M's at 14. Bottom line, there should never be a need to run gen while underway as the eng. alt.'s more than make up for the power draw of the electronics and frig units.

On another note, mechanic told me that bridging the batteries using the emergency start switch when starting each motor is a good idea with the 480CE's. He indicates that it provides the starters with more juice and will help prevent premature starter failure. I have new batteries so have max. cranking power but what he says does make sense and can't hurt I suppose, especially when the batteries have a few years on them. I've been doing this ever since.

 

[Tenacious]

Too Funnny! (all the toys)

I've got a friend with a 1999 480 DB and he needs to run the gen for his fridge as well as his are 120vlt. I know some need to do this. Running the gen in my boat consumes about a gal. per hour. Not bad and some say it is actually better to run the gen than let sit idle for to long a period. One of my mechanic friends says by regularly usuing the gen it will have a longer gen life with less problems than if you only ran it for a few hours a year. Personally, I'm not afraid to use it. When on the hook I need my A/C at night and keep it fired up for the duration. Also I need the SAT TV for the games. ;-)

 

[Alex F]

My fridge and freezer are 120v... it can't run on 12v... and people are generally down in the cabin while the boat is running and most of the other crap is 120v as well... and it all gets used. A typical "run" for us though is 4-5 hours... I can't tell people to turn off the 120v stuff... it's not boating without cold food/ice/beer and a microwave, 4 TV's with sat hookup, air conditioning, playstation and surfing the Internet... how do you people LIVE??!!!!

I don't worry about the generator... its a low-rpm (1800) non-turbo 4 cylinder diesel and people get 20,000+ hours on these things. They are designed to run forever.

Gary,

Thanks for your feedback. I remember that in larger yachts like yours those fridges don't run on 12v (only 110v or even sometimes 220v), so there isn't a choise. I'm happy to learn that the gennies can run for so long, it's great comfort level that we don't have to worry about extra 10hrs on it for the day.

However, I've come across DAs and DBs 420/440 range that have dual voltage fridges, so that's why I was surprise to hear that folks still run their gennies like you while they have an option to power them via 12v. Do you think it's a bad idea to run them of 12v?

 

[The Bill Collector]

Gennies are better running then sitting idle for months...
But if mine has been run recently and I don't need it running (heat/ac) then I don't automatically run it as soon as I disconnect from shore power. The same goes for my RV gennie, I try to run it for an hour or so at least once a month just to keep things spinning.....