2003 380 Water Heater challenge...

[JediJD]

I have searched, but haven't found the information I need on this-so I am seeking wisdom. Background...2003 380DA. About two weeks ago the Only Mate noticed a mildewy aroma. I did the basics and everything looked fine. Last week I noticed the water pump was running suspiciously when the faucets were not in use. I couldn't find a leak, but did notice an odd through hull fitting that seemed to be draining the excess water. I deduced, ultimately, that my water heater had gone south and began the "Great Water Heater Hunt". Looking at my manual (yep, even did that) the water heater was referenced, but its location was not specified in either the manual or the supplement...nor online. For those who didn't know, it is in the last place you will look...under the center panel beneath the midberth. (If you look for it while it has a leak, you will find it comfortably burbling in about six inches of stagnant water with stuff growing in it.)

Questions.
1. I thought there was a heat exchanger? The unit has hot and cold compression fittings on the front, a drain and a pop valve, but I didn't see a heat exchanger? In the back of the unit maybe? (haven't removed it, and I was too ^%$^%$ stupid to copy the model number before I left the boat in frustration).
2. There seem to be several types...Attwood has 6 gallon and 11 gallon sizes. Other makers have stainless steel innards, and one company sells a stainless exterior with aluminum coils (can't for the life of me figure out why, but OK). I assume I want stainless innards if I am going to keep the boat, but other than longer showers, an reason for the bigger unit? Since I don't have one, I'm not even sure the bigger unit would fit.
3. Any particular recommendations for sources other than eBay?

Any comments would be, as always, appreciated...however, I completely recognize that this one looks like a learning experience is fast approaching.

 

[Skip]

I had the same problem on my 2003 420DA. The pressure relief valve on my boat's Seaward S-1100 hot water heater was releasing at ~30 PSI, so the 12V water pump would pressurize the system, the relief valve would open prematurely, drain water, close, then the water pump would cycle again. This repeated until the water tank was empty and the water pump failed.

Before you buy a new hot water heater, consult the serial number sheet for your boat (probably came in the valise full of owners manuals, etc) If you don't have your serial number sheet, Sea Ray customer service can fax it to you by referencing your Hull ID Number. As I am the second owner of my 420DA, this is how I got my serial number sheet. At any rate, get the HWH model and serial numbers and order a new pressure relief valve as a start point. This is a less expensive course of action that a new HWH.

Skip

 

[Jimmy Buoy]

There is an "exchanger". Coolant from a designated engine flows out via a coolant hose which is connected to the "inlet" fitting on the side of your water heater. The coolant then passes through a small metal tube that circles through the inside of the tank and exits via a "outlet" fitting. There will be an outlet hose on that fitting which will carry the engine coolant back to the engine. With the coolant being 150-170 degrees, therefore the small metal tube will become hot, therefore the fresh water surrounding the tube within the water heater will also become hot. That's an exchanger.

Just don't confuse the fresh potable water in/out with the exchanger in/out. The exchanger will be the hose fittings.

 

[BDO86]

I had the same problem. Yes the delima is where to find the little 6 gallon box. I had to remove the aft seat to get to it.
I had to replace the pressure relief valve. It kept dumping water out the drain hole on the port side.
I do not think that you will be able to get a bigger on as there is not enough room under the mid state room couch. It is the height that is a limiting factor and also the recess that the heater sits in.

If I were to replace the unit I woulod go with a stainess steel one. They may cost a bit more but worth it in my opinion.

I hope this helps.

Bryan

 

[JediJD]

Replies appreciated. Thanks. What I may have are two different issues. Issue 1...there was water six inches deep around the hot water heater, which suggests to me that something internal has broken. When the water pump is on, I can actually see the water rise externally around the water pump. Problem number two is that water is exiting from the hull fitting, which may be related to problem number one, but more likely is the pressure valve. I will work on replacing both, and probably spend the extra $100 or so for stainless.

Any other input, please feel free.

 

[osd9]

On my 2002 model 380DA, there was no connection from either motor to the HWH. The ports on the HWH existed, but they were not connected. I wouldn't think you would want to connect water lines from the motors to the HWH when the HWH is located in the cabin area.

You should have three water lines to your HWH. two blue cold water supply lines and one red hot water return line. First is to try the obvious and confirm that none of those lines are leaking. Some tissue paper around the connection will easily let you know that answer. You also should have a permanently attached hose to the drain of the HWH that exist the cabin and drains into the forward section of the bilge just by the forward bilge pump by your AC strainer. make sure that the drain valve hasn't worked it's way loose (I doubt that that is your problem because you say you see water uner the rear sette). Then, I would excercise the pressure relief valve a few times....open/close/open/close/etc. Then, I would dry up the area the best I could, fill the fresh water system and sit there with a flash light and some rags and try to determine where the water is coming from.

IMPORTANT....until you fix the leak, do NOT connect to city water. Running from the fresh water tank, at least you know how much water that could fill your boat is only a few gallons....connected to city water....unlimited!!!

 

[Two Peas]

My 2002 360 is plumbed like osd9 describes... No exchanger hoses.

 

[Lazy Daze]

I replaced my 6-gallon about two years ago with the 11-gallon. Mine is in the engine bay, so I had extra room to deal with. I don't recall the exact price bump for the 11-gallon, but it wasn't that much more ('course, buying at cost helps, too!). In hindsight, we really don't use the hot water all that much so I don't know why I did that.:huh:

As you're doing your research, don't forget that the heaters are actually from Atwood Mobile, not Attwood Marine. Note the (1) "T". Just a friendly FYI.

You can test to see if that thru-hull is for the pressure valve by simply lifting on the little handle to open the valve. You should see water (or more water, if it's currently dripping) come out of the thru-hull. Of course, you'll need the water turned on (or at least some pressure built up inside the unit).

EDIT: You wouldn't want to buy a part like this from a Sea Ray dealer, unless they also have a good ship's store - which means they can get this from other sources (meaning, not through Sea Ray). If they can get products from other suppliers than Sea Ray, they can likely get you a good price.

 

[osd9]

Here's a pic of the HWH in my 2002 380DA with the supply and feed lines bypassed for winterization.

you can see that room is limited. You can also see in the pic the dedicated drain hose that exists to the bilge area.

 

[Russ Calasant]

Interesting thread, I have had a constant nagging problem with my water heater since I have owned the boat. The hot water exit pipe was a smooth copper pipe connected to a "Whale" fitting to red plastic pipe. When I turn on the heater or run the motors for extended time the Whale fitting would blow off the end and dump all the water out followed by the pump contiueing to fill...and dump until the water tank is empty. I tried many different solutions until the most recent that seems to be working. I changed the copper fitting to a barbed end, removed the Whale fitting and double clamped the plastic pipe right to the fitting. I still get a few drips but I can live with it. Thoughts? osd9 - not sure wat that is on your hot water exit fitting, pressure release? I think my problem may be temperature related. Ideas? Sorry for hijacking Jedi but you may have a similar or related problem - check that fitting.

 

[osd9]

...osd9 - not sure wat that is on your hot water exit fitting, pressure release? ....

the 380DA, and some other models, came from the factory with a mixing valve on the output side of the HWH. I honestly don't see the need for it. My 410DA does NOT have the mixing and neither did either of my 330DAs have the mixing valve.

It only made bypassing for winterizing more difficult.

 

[Pseudomind]

I had the same problem. Yes the delima is where to find the little 6 gallon box. I had to remove the aft seat to get to it.
I had to replace the pressure relief valve. It kept dumping water out the drain hole on the port side.
I do not think that you will be able to get a bigger on as there is not enough room under the mid state room couch. It is the height that is a limiting factor and also the recess that the heater sits in.

If I were to replace the unit I woulod go with a stainess steel one. They may cost a bit more but worth it in my opinion.

I hope this helps.


Bryan

What is the trick to removing the aft seat?. I hear there are four bolts and two are near impossible to remove?

 

[osd9]

When I did it, I remember having to extend the sette out a bit, not fully, to get to the rear screws....btw...there were 4 self tapping philip head wood screws if I remember correctly...one on each corner. You need to contortionize a bit, but it's really not that difficult. [Have a hack saw around in case your arm get's stuck in the gears and no one knows where you are....(man, that had to take a some serious courage!)]

 

[ZaGaSaRha]

My 2002 360 is plumbed like osd9 describes... No exchanger hoses.

Ditto