03 480 DB With MANs?

Carver370

Carver370

Well-Known Member
Mar 30, 2007
1,928
New Buffalo Michigan
Boat Info
2000 Sea Ray 400 Sundancer - Diesel
Engines
T-3116 CAT - 350 HP
Has anybody ever run one of these boats with the Mans in it? I am looking at one somewhat local to me and wondered what the consensus was?

I would prefer to have the Cummins QSM11's but if the deal is right might as well!
 
Paging Capt. Ryan. Captain Ryan, please come to the forum.
 
Sweet - I didn't know the 480 had a MAN diesel option! With the extra 100+hp I am sure the boat is a rocket and crusies in the high 27+knot range.

I have MAN's in my Sea Ray and love em. Aside from a 20amp starter fuse which went bad, they've been exceedingly reliable.
 
I actually ran a 2003 480 DB with Man engines down the Intracoastal waterway by the Palm Coast Sea Ray plant... it was when I was looking to build/buy my boat. You may want to check as I don't think those engines where electronic at the time... not really sure... we arrived in the morning and the guy kept apologizing about how he didn't leave the heaters on overnight. I've never seen a set of diesels smoke so much.. we were going down the Intracoastal and I swore we were spraying for mosquitoes. They guy told me to opt for the QSM-11's as they didn't smoke (and they don't).

Anyway... that's antecdotal stuff... I do like Man engines... They are pretty much the standard in the Viking convertables at the dock around me... and they don't smoke... but they are newer boats. Make sure you talk to someone who has the model/year of the engines in the 480 and not someone who has different/newer Man engines...

If I remember right, the Man engines were a $75,000 option over the QSM-11's...
 
Which MAN's? My Dad had some in his '03 Cabo 45. They were sweet! Keep the heaters on the blocks to start. The harder you run them the better they are. They sound like a bucket of hammers at idle (I love it!). If I were building a new boat I'd spec. MAN's... Great on fuel too.
 
So far so good, I'm still wondering why there weren't that many made (or at least there aren't that many on the market).

I have run a 2004 500 Sundancer with them and it was beautiful! I can deal with having the block heaters on since I'm used to it with a couple of friends older boats that have Detroits in them.

Keep it coming!

This is the engine model number MAN 2876LE4 I6
 
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Carver370 said:
I'm still wondering why there weren't that many made (or at least there aren't that many on the market).
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I think Gary answered that question.. $75,000 option, they may smoke and they require heaters.
 
You don't see many MANs in Sea Rays because Mercruiser had started their cooperative marketing agreement with Cummins and the Cummins QSM-11 was a much lower cost choice. The QSM was the largest option from Cummins so Sea Ray had to choose someone else for larger engines. The 480DB was a sort of in between size boat......the QSM was adequate, but some buyers wanted more power, hence the MANs for a $75K upcharge.

For my money, the MAN's are almost bullet proof. They are tremendously reliable, but have some negatives, like Mercedes Benz cars, you have to work on them like the manufacturer prescribes, trained technicians are sparce in some areas, parts are expensive and not available at every diesel service outlet, and they can smoke if you don't manage them correctly.

The presence of MAN's in a boat I was interested in would definitely be a positive for me.
 
Ill have to look into MAN service around here. Thanks for all your help and I would love to hear from somebody who owns one with these motors in it, although I'm seeing thats few and far between.

Does anybody have any idea how what kind of fuel usage these boats get with the MAN's in them?
 
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Carver370 said:
Ill have to look into MAN service around here. Thanks for all your help and I would love to hear from somebody who owns one with these motors in it, although I'm seeing thats few and far between.

Does anybody have any idea how what kind of fuel usage these boats get with the MAN's in them?
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I just got through spending time on a 2008 52 sedan bridge with the MAN diesels. We got about .5 mpg and the boat had a max speed of about 37mph. I also drove the same model boat with the cummins engine and the MAN powered boat was considerably more powerful than the cummins powered boat. After driving the MAN powered boat the Cummins boat felt underpowered when we were pushing through some heavy seas. No doubt I would go for the boat with the MAN's.
 
I'm not so sure the MAN engines in a 2008 are the same as they were in 2003...

I've also never felt the 480 DB with Cummins was underpowered... I've been in a lot of stuff... and know people that have a few of these and I've never ever heard the "underpowered" comment before. In heavy seas, you really have to back the boat down or you'll beat the crap out of it...
 
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Four Suns said:
I'm not so sure the MAN engines in a 2008 are the same as they were in 2003...

I've also never felt the 480 DB with Cummins was underpowered... I've been in a lot of stuff... and know people that have a few of these and I've never ever heard the "underpowered" comment before. In heavy seas, you really have to back the boat down or you'll beat the crap out of it...
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One thing to consider besides horsepower is the fact that the MAN powered boat has wheels that are 2 inches larger in diameter and probably a couple more inches in pitch than the Cummins boat. That equals more prop lift. The MAN boat ran a lot less stern heavy than the cummins boat. That helped to reduce the pounding of the bow into the waves. The boat seemed to cut through the seas rather than ride over the top of them.
 
bluebelly said:
One thing to consider besides horsepower is the fact that the MAN powered boat has wheels that are 2 inches larger in diameter and probably a couple more inches in pitch than the Cummins boat. That equals more prop lift. The MAN boat ran a lot less stern heavy than the cummins boat. That helped to reduce the pounding of the bow into the waves. The boat seemed to cut through the seas rather than ride over the top of them.
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I respectfully disagree... If a boat (same hull and weight and balance) is moving at X knots through the water, the thrust (and lift) is exactly the same between the two different engines.
 
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Not to doubt what you are saying but a hull design is a hull design. I have nose loaded the s**t out of my boat knowing that I was going into rough seas and it made no difference.
When you get stuck in 6 to 8's or for that matter 8 to 10's it doesn't matter, you going to crawl along and that's all there is to it. You can have all the torque and power in the world with 36 inch screws but you are still limited to what your hull is capable of.

Jack
 
earthmover17 said:
Not to doubt what you are saying but a hull design is a hull design. I have nose loaded the s**t out of my boat knowing that I was going into rough seas and it made no difference.
When you get stuck in 6 to 8's or for that matter 8 to 10's it doesn't matter, you going to crawl along and that's all there is to it. You can have all the torque and power in the world with 36 inch screws but you are still limited to what your hull is capable of.

Jack
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Exactly. Bigger engines will allow the boat to maybe accelerate faster, have a higher cruise and higher top end speed but at the end of the day, the hull form determines the drag. If you want to push the hull through the water at 26 knots, it requires a certain amount of thrust regardless of how it's created. Given the shaft angles are the same, the thrust vector for the lift component will also be the same. Now the MAN engines may weigh a few hundred pounds more but I can't imagine that will make a big difference in a boat that is probably 46,000 pounds loaded up.

The reality is I can cruise at 26 knots if there is 1' or less... anything over that and the throttles come back quickly... ocean travel and lower bay travel is usually 23 knots... (2-3 feet)... anything over 3 feet and I'm quickly down around 16-18 knots... These boats are no Vikings...
 
Four Suns said:
I respectfully disagree... If a boat (same hull and weight and balance) is moving at X knots through the water, the thrust (and lift) is exactly the same between the two different engines.
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I believe that propellers not only produce thrust they also will produce lift. Cupping the props will exaggerate the lift as will changing the rake of the blades. Cupping also has the added benefit of reducing trailing edge cavitation.
 
bluebelly said:
I believe that propellers not only produce thrust they also will produce lift. Cupping the props will exaggerate the lift as will changing the rake of the blades. Cupping also has the added benefit of reducing trailing edge cavitation.
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I don't really know the geometry of the MAN engine props for the 480 DB but if they are larger in diameter and have less rake, I guess the boat would throw a higher rooster tall and create stern lift... I just can't imagine they are that much different... but maybe they are... There isn't much rake on the props on my boat.

Being a mid-engine boat, I've never really considered the boat stern heavy to begin with. My boat will stay on plane all the way down to 12 knots with the tabs down... Compared to my 380 Sundancer I had, this boat is a dream.
 
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