Advice to brokers

I made sure my boat was professionally detailed and had the cabin cleaned professionally by a local carpet company. Made a world of difference.
 
dpmulvey said:
In my case, I was. give me "x" for mine which was well under ($10K) low retail,for the area. . I want that larger mid 40' aft cabin as a live aboard. If you can find me a 40 or 48 "Sneaker" with diesels, I'm there. I love early spring and late fall cruising a lot.

I got crickets.

You want my business once or do you want my (and my friends) business for life? Your call!. I tried to get my realtor to come out of retirement to work with me on my last purchase.
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Not trying to start an argument at all. Let me try to explain. 10k below low retail is not enough of a spread. Remember when they sell your boat, they must pay commissions 10%, they have to plan for maybe 6 months slip rental, some insurance expense, any up keep while they own the boat, cleaning, possible winterizing, etc. This assuming that no issues are found with the trade. All of sudden that 10K below retail is gone, again, just sell a boat you did not own in the beginning.
 
bahamabreisus said:
Not trying to start an argument at all. Let me try to explain. 10k below low retail is not enough of a spread. Remember when they sell your boat, they must pay commissions 10%, they have to plan for maybe 6 months slip rental, some insurance expense, any up keep while they own the boat, cleaning, possible winterizing, etc. This assuming that no issues are found with the trade. All of sudden that 10K below retail is gone, again, just sell a boat you did not own in the beginning.
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;;;;;;;;Long Reply;;;;;;;

No argument here either. Just the facts as I perceive them. As my ex's mentor (VP of BCBS Florida) told her. Perception is everything.

Perhaps I was unclear in my description. Every person I have seen as a "broker" save 2 has been associated with Marine Max. Maybe the MM folks are just the guy/girl looking for a buck, but it said broker on their cards.

The other 2 either

a.) did not know sh!t about their product, or thought I didn't. With everything from 8 foot of rowboat to 600+ feet of haze grey under me I don't know much but tried to learn over the last 50 + years on the water.

b.) did not care to listen to my requirements. I've made a LOT$ of mistake$ over $everal year$ on $everal boat$. The mi$take$ got $maller over time, to a point that I think I know what$ be$t for me. If I don't, that'$ my problem. When I tell you I need stairs to the bridge because of a knee going bad due to a skiing accident years ago, do NOT show me a boat with a damn near vertical ladder and a tiny hatch to get my fat arse through to get to the bridge unless you have a guy on speed dial to build the workaround.

or

c.) find the average boater a moron they have to deal with in order to put food on the table. Yeah....We'll go with that.

In any event, I've yet to be impressed.


IF instead of crickets, I had gotten a cogent explanation of "WHY", I would have learned something. Instead I got crickets. If I got a "WHY, we cannot accommodate exactly what you want and honestly don't know if anybody can, BUT here is what we can do for you. Are you willing to listen? It's not exactly what you want, but do you think it will meet your short term needs?" Nope..... Just crickets....... To add insult to injury, I continue to get e-mails from cricket asshat asking if I have sold my boat yet because they have a couple of pristine "vessels" that are just what I am looking for. I read them, laugh a bit and toss them in the virtual fireplace I keep lit in the corner of my screen. Is their tactic called quid pro screw or screw pro quo. I forget.


My Intro to Brokers 101 is jaundiced. I'll be the first to admit that.

I'm sure there are lots of good brokers out there. Probably some great ones too. God knows I'd love to find one. Maybe.....Just Maybe, the good ones and the great ones need to rethink their marketing strategy, who they let into the club, and not be afraid to strip a person of their brokers license (if there is such a thing) for (delineate it in the bylaws). Make something with teeth way beyond the CPYB Code of Ethics. If you don't do it, someone else will..... God knows MM had a golden opportunity and for reasons unknown to me, seems to have pissed it away.

Just my perception.
 
mquiet said:
I noticed an interesting point in the OP rant. He was only asking the selling broker and was not using one of his own to get the ball rolling with the selling broker to verify the boat. I know Bahamabreisus personally and he sold my 340 and then I used him to find me my 480. He poured months into finding me 7 to look at in a whirlwind tour or Florida. We settled at 2 to survey. I failed both during survey and we moved on. He found a needle in heap of needles and went to a third survey. Boat checked out and we closed. He then drove to Florida with me overnight from NC to Florida. We arrived at 4;30 am and pushed off the dock later that morning. THAT IS A BROKER! Thanks Reis (Bahamabreisus)


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I specifically wrote "listing broker" in my OP. First sentence, paragraph two. I wouldnt expect any broker to be familiar with a "listed" boat in another state but if I were a broker, and I am in sales, as are brokers, I would make sure I was intimately familiar with my own personal listings, as well as having established a good rapport with the owner-seller.

Thank you all for your comments. My sanity has been well established on this issue....although the Admiral completely disagrees with this assertion. :grin:
 
dpmulvey said:
;;;;;;;;Long Reply;;;;;;;

No argument here either. Just the facts as I perceive them. As my ex's mentor (VP of BCBS Florida) told her. Perception is everything.

Perhaps I was unclear in my description. Every person I have seen as a "broker" save 2 has been associated with Marine Max. Maybe the MM folks are just the guy/girl looking for a buck, but it said broker on their cards.

The other 2 either

a.) did not know sh!t about their product, or thought I didn't. With everything from 8 foot of rowboat to 600+ feet of haze grey under me I don't know much but tried to learn over the last 50 + years on the water.

b.) did not care to listen to my requirements. I've made a LOT$ of mistake$ over $everal year$ on $everal boat$. The mi$take$ got $maller over time, to a point that I think I know what$ be$t for me. If I don't, that'$ my problem. When I tell you I need stairs to the bridge because of a knee going bad due to a skiing accident years ago, do NOT show me a boat with a damn near vertical ladder and a tiny hatch to get my fat arse through to get to the bridge unless you have a guy on speed dial to build the workaround.

or

c.) find the average boater a moron they have to deal with in order to put food on the table. Yeah....We'll go with that.

In any event, I've yet to be impressed.


IF instead of crickets, I had gotten a cogent explanation of "WHY", I would have learned something. Instead I got crickets. If I got a "WHY, we cannot accommodate exactly what you want and honestly don't know if anybody can, BUT here is what we can do for you. Are you willing to listen? It's not exactly what you want, but do you think it will meet your short term needs?" Nope..... Just crickets....... To add insult to injury, I continue to get e-mails from cricket asshat asking if I have sold my boat yet because they have a couple of pristine "vessels" that are just what I am looking for. I read them, laugh a bit and toss them in the virtual fireplace I keep lit in the corner of my screen. Is their tactic called quid pro screw or screw pro quo. I forget.


My Intro to Brokers 101 is jaundiced. I'll be the first to admit that.

I'm sure there are lots of good brokers out there. Probably some great ones too. God knows I'd love to find one. Maybe.....Just Maybe, the good ones and the great ones need to rethink their marketing strategy, who they let into the club, and not be afraid to strip a person of their brokers license (if there is such a thing) for (delineate it in the bylaws). Make something with teeth way beyond the CPYB Code of Ethics. If you don't do it, someone else will..... God knows MM had a golden opportunity and for reasons unknown to me, seems to have pissed it away.

Just my perception.
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You are correct, MM has blown a great deal they have to market Sea Rays. I feel customers are just number to them, not concerned about the next sale with that customer. As you stated earlier, you tried to get your realtor out of retirement, why, because he/she did a great job for you, and thats rare. You most likely consider your realtor a friend, a friend helps you find what you want, not what they want. I pride myself in the fact, I treat your money like its mine.
 
bahamabreisus said:
You are correct, MM has blown a great deal they have to market Sea Rays. I feel customers are just number to them, not concerned about the next sale with that customer. As you stated earlier, you tried to get your realtor out of retirement, why, because he/she did a great job for you, and thats rare. You most likely consider your realtor a friend, a friend helps you find what you want, not what they want. I pride myself in the fact, I treat your money like its mine.
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Maybe we'll do business someday.
 
When I first started looking at boats. MM just wanted to sell me something way out of my price range and was not listening to my wants, needs, finances. Like I said....Reis is it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I've been shopping for about a year now. During that time I've dealt with numerous brokers and private sellers. I've also sold my boat on my own to the very first person that looked at it less than 24 hours after I listed it.
What I have learned is that there are good brokers, and bad brokers. The best way to deal with them is to be familiar with the year, makes, and models you are looking for. Ask a lot of questions, and request specific pictures before going out of your way (long distances) to look at a boat. Once a good broker knows you are a serious buyer, they will usually go out of their way to try to find the right thing for you. If the broker isn't good, you'll know during the question and picture request stage.
Although I wouldn't totally rule out dealing with a private seller, after looking at many privately listed boats I won't go out of my way to narrow my search to boats listed by private sellers. I've found privately listed boats to mostly be in either poor condition, or when they are in pretty nice condition they tend to be priced too high.
This is not to say that private sellers are inherently dishonest. But, very often an owner has learned to live with and accept their boats shortcomings and think you should too. One example might be when you point out something that doesn't work as it should they respond by saying that it hasn't done so in years and they never really missed it. One the other end of the spectrum I've seen some nice boats listed by their owners for way more than they are worth. Usually that owner will point out that "this is what they are going for on Yachtworld" when in reality the listings they are referencing have been on there in some cases since the last Bush administration. What things are listed for and what they actually sell for are completely different things.
I acknowledge that I was very lucky selling my boat, but I also contributed to that luck by realistically pricing a completely "turn Key" boat with absolutely everything working as it should, immaculately cleaning it inside and out, and providing documentation for all maintenance, repairs, and upgrades I'd done over the years organized in a loose-leaf binder along with instructions for winterization and routine maintenance. Essentially, there wasn't a single shortcoming the buyer could point to.
 
fr8dog said:
A Marine Max broker on Long Island listed a 460 Dancer and described it as in “pristine “ condition. I made a deal based on his assessment of the boat. I set up surveys and sea trial and flew from Florida to New York for inspection and the surveys etc. I found the boat to have not seen wax in a long time, upholstery was severely worn. The interior was filthy and worn. The panels on the hardtop ceiling and sides were removed for some reason. The helm gauges were removed for troubleshooting, as they were not working. Canvas was in terrible shape. When I said to the broker “pristine?, seriously?” He said “I hope you don’t think I have mis-represented the boat?” I went home. I know there are honest brokers, but there are some very dishonest ones as well. Buyer beware!
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HUH..I'm sure that one wasn't mine.
 
I was ready to take the hit on my boat, and trade up. As was said here, I found most sales people to be completely ignorant, to the boats they were selling.
Most didn't know how to operate anything on the boat they were trying to sell. I just told them to stand back and let me look for myself. Most times they would leave me on the boat by myself, and told me to come find them when I was ready to talk. Sad really.
Most boats I looked at were in disrepair and needed to be cleaned badly. The worst I looked at was full of leaves. haha
Of course the ads said they were cherry and, priced to sell, so better come look quick.

The dealers said they took clean trades. My boat is perfect, and has added options not offered by Sea Ray. When dealers said they took clean trades, they meant they wanted to steal your boat. " They" offered wholesale, no more. AND, they didn't give the value for any added options. BUT, the boat you were looking at was priced, including options. I told many dealers, I'll trade wholesale for wholesale, or retail for retail, but I'm not giving you my boat, and buying your boat for top money. Then really get pissed when I see you selling my boat for top retail.

Bottom line for me is, I'm keeping my boat, I'm done with the stupidity........So I went and bought me a 2017 4x4 Polaris Ace 900xc, gonna trade my rv for a toy hauler, and play in the woods and mountains of West Virgina, Tennessee, Kentucky, NC, Florida, and Utah!! Lol
In other words I'm spending my big boat money on other toys that will bring me joy instead of frustration.
 
islandhopper00 said:
I was ready to take the hit on my boat, and trade up. As was said here, I found most sales people to be completely ignorant, to the boats they were selling.
Most didn't know how to operate anything on the boat they were trying to sell. I just told them to stand back and let me look for myself. Most times they would leave me on the boat by myself, and told me to come find them when I was ready to talk. Sad really.
Most boats I looked at were in disrepair and needed to be cleaned badly. The worst I looked at was full of leaves. haha
Of course the ads said they were cherry and, priced to sell, so better come look quick.

The dealers said they took clean trades. My boat is perfect, and has added options not offered by Sea Ray. When dealers said they took clean trades, they meant they wanted to steal your boat. " They" offered wholesale, no more. AND, they didn't give the value for any added options. BUT, the boat you were looking at was priced, including options. I told many dealers, I'll trade wholesale for wholesale, or retail for retail, but I'm not giving you my boat, and buying your boat for top money. Then really get pissed when I see you selling my boat for top retail.

Bottom line for me is, I'm keeping my boat, I'm done with the stupidity........So I went and bought me a 2017 4x4 Polaris Ace 900xc, gonna trade my rv for a toy hauler, and play in the woods and mountains of West Virgina, Tennessee, Kentucky, NC, Florida, and Utah!! Lol
In other words I'm spending my big boat money on other toys that will bring me joy instead of frustration.
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DING!!! DING!!! DING!!! DING!!! DING!!! We have a winner.


Just curious if those who are brokers here find this and other perceptions (mine included) out of the norm and see boating going back to being a rich mans sport?
 
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islandhopper00 said:
I was ready to take the hit on my boat, and trade up. As was said here, I found most sales people to be completely ignorant, to the boats they were selling.
Most didn't know how to operate anything on the boat they were trying to sell. I just told them to stand back and let me look for myself. Most times they would leave me on the boat by myself, and told me to come find them when I was ready to talk. Sad really.
Most boats I looked at were in disrepair and needed to be cleaned badly. The worst I looked at was full of leaves. haha
Of course the ads said they were cherry and, priced to sell, so better come look quick.

The dealers said they took clean trades. My boat is perfect, and has added options not offered by Sea Ray. When dealers said they took clean trades, they meant they wanted to steal your boat. " They" offered wholesale, no more. AND, they didn't give the value for any added options. BUT, the boat you were looking at was priced, including options. I told many dealers, I'll trade wholesale for wholesale, or retail for retail, but I'm not giving you my boat, and buying your boat for top money. Then really get pissed when I see you selling my boat for top retail.

Bottom line for me is, I'm keeping my boat, I'm done with the stupidity........So I went and bought me a 2017 4x4 Polaris Ace 900xc, gonna trade my rv for a toy hauler, and play in the woods and mountains of West Virgina, Tennessee, Kentucky, NC, Florida, and Utah!! Lol
In other words I'm spending my big boat money on other toys that will bring me joy instead of frustration.
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The difference between wholesale and retail is called profit. All businesses need to make profit, or they wont be there when you need something. I am sure what ever business you are in makes a profit. The job of a buyer is to reduce the profit as much as possible, but a profit needs to be made.
 
bahamabreisus said:
The difference between wholesale and retail is called profit. All businesses need to make profit, or they wont be there when you need something. I am sure what ever business you are in makes a profit. The job of a buyer is to reduce the profit as much as possible, but a profit needs to be made.
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I would agree if retail were fixed as in a grocery store or CarMax. But in boating it's not. Wholesale (or cost and for the sake of this argument let's include all costs here) and Retail (MSRP) is the negotiation zone. Anything above wholesale is profit. The folks I know who can afford new boats go in with a figure in mind that is at least 25 to 30 percent off retail. Then they start negotiating.

I honestly thought MM was going to take the CarMax business model and put it on the water. Guess not.
 
Best place to buy new Sea Ray is an independent dealer, MM has prices jacked so high they can give you a 100K trade for a yo-yo. :smt021
 
The best sales reps in any business are the ones that talk the least, ask the best questions to assess the buyer's needs, and who listen carefully in order to tailor their talking points to what interests the buyer the most. Did you ever meet someone at a party who got you talking about your favorite subject....yourself? They listened intently to everything you said, asked you more, and didn't bore you at all about themselves. That's a rare but highly skilled, intentional and disciplined tactic. When you get home, that's usually the person you remember the most fondly. Unfortunately, most people's human nature is we don't listen, we impatiently wait to talk about ourselves. Boat sales people who talk first about price, and/or talk too much about the boat before they know a buyer's needs is the trap most sales reps fall into and what turns most buyers like me off right away. Now, when I meet a sales rep who asks me lots of questions about me, my family, my boating habits (all my favorite subjects) and he/she has something that fits my needs, we click and price becomes much less relevant. Every person in sales should read the book Socratic Selling. It's a great read and can change your life (no I'm not the author:)
 
JamesT said:
The best sales reps in any business are the ones that talk the least, ask the best questions to assess the buyer's needs, and who listen carefully in order to tailor their talking points to what interests the buyer the most. Did you ever meet someone at a party who got you talking about your favorite subject....yourself? They listened intently to everything you said, asked you more, and didn't bore you at all about themselves. That's a rare but highly skilled, intentional and disciplined tactic. When you get home, that's usually the person you remember the most fondly. Unfortunately, most people's human nature is we don't listen, we impatiently wait to talk about ourselves. Boat sales people who talk first about price, and/or talk too much about the boat before they know a buyer's needs is the trap most sales reps fall into and what turns most buyers like me off right away. Now, when I meet a sales rep who asks me lots of questions about me, my family, my boating habits (all my favorite subjects) and he/she has something that fits my needs, we click and price becomes much less relevant. Every person in sales should read the book Socratic Selling. It's a great read and can change your life (no I'm not the author:)
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i am a VP of Sales for a healthcare technology company. I have been in sales since 1984. The above is true and accurate.

In over 30 years in sales I've never sold a product.
Most sales people fail because they don't know the secret to sales.

I rarely give away my professional insights but since many here have helped me I'll offer this illustration.

Selling boats is a lot like selling sausage. Your commercial can focus on on a meat packing freezer room with stainless steel saws and a butcher wearing a blood soaked apron squeezing goo through the grinder -OR - you commercial can show a bbq party in a beautiful back yard with beautiful people standing around having a great time, standing around the grill w beers in their hands laughing and enjoying grilling delicious sizzling brats and sausages.

Most brokers are sausage sales people ;)
 
So true. Most people go through their entire life, and never realize why they have two ears, and one mouth. The sales people who figure this out, and have good self awareness are the successful ones.


JamesT said:
The best sales reps in any business are the ones that talk the least, ask the best questions to assess the buyer's needs, and who listen carefully in order to tailor their talking points to what interests the buyer the most. Did you ever meet someone at a party who got you talking about your favorite subject....yourself? They listened intently to everything you said, asked you more, and didn't bore you at all about themselves. That's a rare but highly skilled, intentional and disciplined tactic. When you get home, that's usually the person you remember the most fondly. Unfortunately, most people's human nature is we don't listen, we impatiently wait to talk about ourselves. Boat sales people who talk first about price, and/or talk too much about the boat before they know a buyer's needs is the trap most sales reps fall into and what turns most buyers like me off right away. Now, when I meet a sales rep who asks me lots of questions about me, my family, my boating habits (all my favorite subjects) and he/she has something that fits my needs, we click and price becomes much less relevant. Every person in sales should read the book Socratic Selling. It's a great read and can change your life (no I'm not the author:)
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