Having trouble understanding current events

Golfman25 said:
Point is they know who did the move and can check them out.

Got any pics of the visitors in the room, going thru docs? If you think Hillary's computer was more secure than an room in the private residence at Trumps house, you're delusional.
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Well, both the Clinton and Trump properties are under the protection of the Secret Service, so physical security ought to be about the same but one is also a hotel/restaurant and the other is not. There could have been cyber intrusion in the Clinton cased but that was looked for and never found.
What gets me is that, having made such a big deal about Clinton, President Trump didn't make doubly certain that his skirts were clean with respect to information security. Self-inflicted wound that should have never happened.
 
MonacoMike said:
Nope, if he says he declassified them you and I too can possess them…
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Cool. That would indeed be the case if NARA had possession of said documents and they had, indeed, been de-classified.

The first didn’t happen because FPOTUS took them and the second isn’t proven to have happened.

And that’s the problem.
 
MonacoMike said:
Nope, if he says he declassified them you and I too can possess them…
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Mike you're 100% wrong on that. The National Archives decides what documents Trump is allowed. He is no longer President and has no clearance to have classified material. His defense has no evidence he declassified any of the documents. That would solve some of his problems. If the NA decides Trump can have the other documents then he gets them back. Every thing he produced in office is owned by the people not Trump.
 
Golfman25 said:
Says who? He can declasify things on the fly, such as when he is in a meeting with foriegn powers.
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It has to be documented to prove the documents have been declassified without the documented evidence how does anyone know what is documented classified and and what isn't.
Also in the link I posted for you to read it states there was classified documents there. Trump created 99% of his troubles.
 
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Woody said:
I hope not, the best thing that could happen for the country is for Biden to tell everyone to back off of Trump. That is, as long as this is just about record retention/possession. Otherwise all we will have is each party trying to 'get' the other each time they are in power. They already can't work together well enough, this constant investigation BS has to stop.
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You do realize Trumps lawsuit against Clinton over the Russian Gate scandal was just thrown out of court this week. The Judge was right on with his summation. Hard to let sleeping dogs lie with Trump
 
MonacoMike said:
This?


Executive Order 13526
As president, Trump has the legal power to declassify information. He also has the authority to share information with whomever he wants, including foreign adversaries.

“Trump is protected under an executive order that was signed by Barack Obama in 2009 establishing a uniform system for "classifying, safeguarding and declassifying national security information."

“The order allows the president to determine the system of designating classified information, and he is the ultimate authority over U.S. intelligence agencies, which gather and classify the information.”
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You still don't get it that Trump can't prove he declassified those documents.
The appeal to the judges decision over the master to view the documents lists documents that Trump had that were not declassified. All Trump has to do is produce the paper work where these documents were declassified. You can't wave a magic wand say all of this is declassified, it has to be documented and a paper trail.
 
Iprof said:
Mike you're 100% wrong on that. The National Archives decides what documents Trump is allowed. He is no longer President and has no clearance to have classified material. His defense has no evidence he declassified any of the documents. That would solve some of his problems. If the NA decides Trump can have the other documents then he gets them back. Every thing he produced in office is owned by the people not Trump.
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Apparently you do not believe judge Berman. Take it up with her.
 
Iprof said:
You still don't get it that Trump can't prove he declassified those documents.
The appeal to the judges decision over the master to view the documents lists documents that Trump had that were not declassified. All Trump has to do is produce the paper work where these documents were declassified. You can't wave a magic wand say all of this is declassified, it has to be documented and a paper trail.
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Apparently you do not believe judge Berman. Take it up with her.
 
Just why has this never been an issue in the past? Did every President in history except Trump do it perfectly to the professor and his lackies understanding? Nope, I proved that most recent Presidents have kept documents. This is all about get Trump and using those they have infected with TDS.

You may think you are in the right here but this witchhunt is truly corruption of unprecedented levels and threatens our constitutional processes…
 
MonacoMike said:
Apparently you do not believe judge Berman. Take it up with her.
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The Clinton ruling was if the tapes were personal records or not. Documents created by a government agency are clearly not personal records.

Apple and oranges.
 
MonacoMike said:
Just why has this never been an issue in the past? Did every President in history except Trump do it perfectly to the professor and his lackies understanding? Nope, I proved that most recent Presidents have kept documents. This is all about get Trump and using those they have infected with TDS.

You may think you are in the right here but this witchhunt is truly corruption of unprecedented levels and threatens our constitutional processes…
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He had been given the chance to do it right, return the records on his own. He declined. Then he was subpoenaed and still didn’t provide all records that were relevant. So, yea, he has gone about this differently than any other modern president. And that’s why it’s never been an issue before, but it is now. It’s not us. It’s truly him.
 
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MonacoMike said:
Just why has this never been an issue in the past? Did every President in history except Trump do it perfectly to the professor and his lackies understanding? Nope, I proved that most recent Presidents have kept documents. This is all about get Trump and using those they have infected with TDS.

You may think you are in the right here but this witchhunt is truly corruption of unprecedented levels and threatens our constitutional processes…
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It’s the omicron variant of TDS.
 
Cdillerud said:
The Clinton ruling was if the tapes were personal records or not. Documents created by a government agency are clearly not personal records.

Apple and oranges.
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Reading comprehension is paramount. Judge Amy Berman’s ruling disagrees with what you think it means. Try reading it slowly next time.
 
OllieC said:
Reading comprehension is paramount. Judge Amy Berman’s ruling disagrees with what you think it means. Try reading it slowly next time.
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Absolutely not, in fact the ruling and the decision by the archivist falls exactly in line with what Mike thinks should be applied to Trump. To a degree.

The Archivist made the determination that the Clinton tapes were personal records and thus did not seek to have them brought under NARA control. The Judge held there was no legal basis to force the NARA to gain custody of personal records that would then become public property as the plaintiff Judicial Watch requested in the suit.

NARA isn’t looking for custody of personal items that Trump possessed, but rather presidential records that belong to the government per the PRA. If the FBI did seize personal records, like passports, those should be returned after the filter.

Mike intimates that anything Trump de-classified becomes personal records but that is not true, they remain government property and fall under the custody of NARA regardless of classification.

If Trump had personal dirty
notes to Ivanka his sock drawer, the same ruling would and should apply as in the Clinton case. Those do not belong in the archive as public property.

The Presidential Records Act, passed in response to disputes over President Richard Nixon's records following his resignation from office, does include a procedure for the Archives to ask the Attorney General to try to recover official presidential records. But, Jackson wrote, "The statute does not mandate that NARA invoke this enforcement scheme but rather vests complete discretion with the agency to utilize that mechanism."

The agency has deemed FPOTUS to have been holding official presidential records and the archivist sought their return, at their discretion, to NARA custody per the mechanism afforded them by the PRA.

But tell me what I misread.
 
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Golfman25 said:
It’s the omicron variant of TDS.
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Funny! Still not true.

If any POTUS had willfully and knowingly taken government records that belong in the NARA per the PRA I would have the exact same position. Presidential records belong to us as a country, not to one person who used to be president.

When the question of why all the things that have happened during the Trump era have never happened before…the answer, of course, is Trump himself. It’s not TDS. He has been treated “differently” because he behaves the way he does.
 
Judicial watch asked the court to force NARA to take custody and control of the Clinton tapes as they wanted them in the public domain as I am sure they felt there was something embarrassing they could find on said tapes. NARA made the determination that the tapes did not constitute official presidential records and thus did not seek to have them returned to the archive. The court ruled there was no mechanism to force the archive to go get the tapes if they do not deem the tapes to fall under the PRA. Simple.

That is not the case with the FPOTUS documents. The archivist made the determination, as is their role, that official presidential records that should be in their custody were missing and that FPOTUS had them. They asked nicely, they subpoenaed and then executed a legal search warrant. All per the PRA.
 
Cdillerud said:
Absolutely not, in fact the ruling and the decision by the archivist falls exactly in line with what Mike thinks should be applied to Trump. To a degree.

The Archivist made the determination that the Clinton tapes were personal records and thus did not seek to have them brought under NARA control. The Judge held there was no legal basis to force the NARA to gain custody of personal records that would then become public property as the plaintiff Judicial Watch requested in the suit.

NARA isn’t looking for custody of personal items that Trump possessed, but rather presidential records that belong to the government per the PRA. If the FBI did seize personal records, like passports, those should be returned after the filter.

Mike intimates that anything Trump de-classified becomes personal records but that is not true, they remain government property and fall under the custody of NARA regardless of classification.

If Trump had personal dirty
notes to Ivanka his sock drawer, the same ruling would and should apply as in the Clinton case. Those do not belong in the archive as public property.

The Presidential Records Act, passed in response to disputes over President Richard Nixon's records following his resignation from office, does include a procedure for the Archives to ask the Attorney General to try to recover official presidential records. But, Jackson wrote, "The statute does not mandate that NARA invoke this enforcement scheme but rather vests complete discretion with the agency to utilize that mechanism."

The agency has deemed FPOTUS to have been holding official presidential records and the archivist sought their return, at their discretion, to NARA custody per the mechanism afforded them by the PRA.

But tell me what I misread.
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Were those tapes in Bill Clintons sock drawer tapes of, Bob Seger, Foreigner & Loverboy, or government property? Asking for a friend.
 
OllieC said:
Were those tapes in Bill Clintons sock drawer tapes of, Bob Seger, Foreigner & Loverboy, or government property? Asking for a friend.
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The NARA determined not government property. Maybe they were Leonard cohen outtakes
 
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