410 Sundancer/Express Cruiser and 400 Sundancer/Express Cruiser **Official Thread**

Stee6043 said:
I just had to make an edit...I missed a receipt for gas. Looks like my mileage did suffer a bit. More like 0.64mpg vs 0.71 I last calculated (with no dinghy).

I cruise between 22-23kts. With a following wind/sea yesterday it was closer to 24kts. 3,600rpm...
Click to expand...

nice, that's fast. I can't run 23kt fully loaded comfortably for very long as its on the high end of rated cruise, we're more like 20kt and occasionally less than that.

I know we've all beat it to death but I think the diesel/gas mpg is closer that it seems if we consider running at the same speed. Any idea what your mpg is if you back down to ~20kt?
 
Strecker25 said:
nice, that's fast. I can't run 23kt fully loaded comfortably for very long as its on the high end of rated cruise, we're more like 20kt and occasionally less than that.

I know we've all beat it to death but I think the diesel/gas mpg is closer that it seems if we consider running at the same speed. Any idea what your mpg is if you back down to ~20kt?
Click to expand...

Promise me you won't tell @RollerCoastr but I've been waiting for 6 weeks to have my Fox Gateways installed by my marina. Sadly I didn't have them for this trip.

Yeah, I'd expect I could definitely improve the mileage if I ran slower. I can keep the boat on-plane down to 17/18kts. I'll know for sure once those gateways get installed...soon, very soon.
 
Stee6043 said:
Promise me you won't tell @RollerCoastr but I've been waiting for 6 weeks to have my Fox Gateways installed by my marina. Sadly I didn't have them for this trip.

Yeah, I'd expect I could definitely improve the mileage if I ran slower. I can keep the boat on-plane down to 17/18kts. I'll know for sure once those gateways get installed...soon, very soon.
Click to expand...

you'll love those things, I really miss the data from our 290 but I can't justify the cost of the diesel floscan's (right now, at least ;))

I ran 100 or so miles this weekend around 20kt, probably going to fill up this afternoon so I'll see what we burned
 
Stee6043 said:
You guys only stayed the one night, right? I watched you guys take off. I wanted to walk over and have a look before you departed. I missed my chance.

We had such a blast up in Elk last week. What a great spot. As evidenced by your photo we used their dinghy shuttle service twice to get up on the upper harbor. There's so much to do up there!

I ran into 3 other CSR members in Leland on my way back this weekend. Small world!
Click to expand...

Yes we did, unfortunately they told us that they only had room for us for one night and had to be out by 11. I was looking for you to come back to the boat the night before but our schedules didn’t align. We went to Suttons Bay the following day.

We had a couple of really great meals there!
 
Small and somewhat easy project. Installed 12 v LED strip under galley cabinets. Really brightens up the counter space. Could see the LED's when sitting at the table, so I also installed L shaped flexible molding in front of them with 3 M 2 sided tape. LED's wired to existing wall switch above the fridge.

lights.png
 
Stee6043 said:
I just completed my first long(ish) trip with my extended platform and the center console dinghy I added in 2021. I still need to fill up the gas tank one last time but I'm trending toward my fuel mileage not changing with the 500lbs dinghy and extended platform. It's looking like I'm still right at 0.7 statute MPG. 400 miles, 570 gallons +/-.

EDIT - I missed a receipt on my fueling! Looks like my mileage did go down a bit. 0.64MPG...outstanding!

We hit Frankfort, Elk Rapids and Leland during our trip. We also stopped in Pentwater for some fuel (a stop you diesel guys could have avoided :)).

Northern Michigan does not disappoint (in summer)...

52287643454_ced4d76662_b.jpg


52287865240_9d4f0892e4_b.jpg


52287865200_b45a26e9ef_b.jpg


52269720083_1fa704f05f_b.jpg
Click to expand...
Thanks for that report, I'm leaving for my first trip with the new dinghy/davit/extension in about 10 days, so I was a bit worried about how that would work out. I have my tie down options coming today and will hopefully get them installed by tomorrow or Weds, then I want to make a run at speed to see how everything goes. That's what I'm most nervous about - how will the davit hold position and not move around.
 
Stee6043 said:
Promise me you won't tell @RollerCoastr but I've been waiting for 6 weeks to have my Fox Gateways installed by my marina. Sadly I didn't have them for this trip.

Yeah, I'd expect I could definitely improve the mileage if I ran slower. I can keep the boat on-plane down to 17/18kts. I'll know for sure once those gateways get installed...soon, very soon.
Click to expand...

Your expectations are correct - you can save a LOT of fuel by pulling back on those sticks on the right side of the helm...

y4m-smJeVpKxBv4PhiVvnKn7AjElEA4pt27NcEp0Uknl61SJexfWTDjpizuu1Y_YEIbGBWdM9Vw6KejeXRCIDeGyTuvgvixMJOV1N6tBXwMAh-3u3z398vpIAVbQQDesoOyCCbGg3YhaXWpykluMKk9kBhTSUKBqT90Ube705AmCIU


I wish you confessed the installation challenges before your trip! You don't actually need the marina's help to get data from your gateways. Just grab them and a couple of zip ties and climb into the ER. Temporarily secure the gateways with the ties and plug them into your diag ports and you're done! They each push a Bluetooth signal, so buy the $5 app you'll actually have access to more data than your Garmins can display. (you'll have to manually calculate econ, but you'll have everything you need)
 
RollerCoastr said:
Your expectations are correct - you can save a LOT of fuel by pulling back on those sticks on the right side of the helm...

y4m-smJeVpKxBv4PhiVvnKn7AjElEA4pt27NcEp0Uknl61SJexfWTDjpizuu1Y_YEIbGBWdM9Vw6KejeXRCIDeGyTuvgvixMJOV1N6tBXwMAh-3u3z398vpIAVbQQDesoOyCCbGg3YhaXWpykluMKk9kBhTSUKBqT90Ube705AmCIU


I wish you confessed the installation challenges before your trip! You don't actually need the marina's help to get data from your gateways. Just grab them and a couple of zip ties and climb into the ER. Temporarily secure the gateways with the ties and plug them into your diag ports and you're done! They each push a Bluetooth signal, so buy the $5 app you'll actually have access to more data than your Garmins can display. (you'll have to manually calculate econ, but you'll have everything you need)
Click to expand...

Ohh you have to be kidding me! I must have mis-read the manual then. I was ready to plug my gateways into the diagnostic ports and just use my iPad for this trip but I saw something in the manual that lead me to believe they'd only operate with 12V being supplied from the NMEA network. Ugghh!!! I should have messaged you! Such luck.
 
We just came back from around 700-710 miles round trip. The best I can calculate is that I burned about 620 gallons of diesel. Most of this was at cruise speed 2250 RPM between 24.5-25 mph (21/22 knots) with the gen running 100% of the time away from the dock.

I am continually amazed at how fuel efficient this boat is, the first day of our trip was a straight shot from New Buffalo to Charlevoix 270 miles. I didn't need to but I stopped in Frankfort (199 miles from New Buffalo) to top off fuel and took on about a half tank.

I am very happy with the 400 and the Cats.

We hit Charlevoix, Harbor Springs, Beaver Island, Old Mission Harbor, Elk Rapids, Suttons Bay, anchored at Sleeping Bear Dunes for an afternoon, Frankfort, Ludington, and finally back home to New Buffalo.
 
GnrlPatton said:
Thanks for that report, I'm leaving for my first trip with the new dinghy/davit/extension in about 10 days, so I was a bit worried about how that would work out. I have my tie down options coming today and will hopefully get them installed by tomorrow or Weds, then I want to make a run at speed to see how everything goes. That's what I'm most nervous about - how will the davit hold position and not move around.
Click to expand...

I've been quite pleased with my "2.0 version" of tie downs this year. My dink moved way too much last year.

I added three padeyes to the red spots below over winter and it's now all I'm using:

upload_2022-8-15_14-36-42.png


I run 5 ratchet straps. I don't know how well you can see it below but I have both transom bolts strapped to the starboard-most padeye. I have the bow eye strapped to the port-most padeye. I then run two longer straps to the center(ish) padeye. One from the dink's starboard side transom bolt (over the transom and under the tube) and the other from the bow ring.

Works like a champ.
upload_2022-8-15_14-41-10.png
 
My report: 74.2 miles traveled and 91 gallons total, so I just cracked .8nmpg. I ran a lot of the time down around 2100 so we were only traveling about 16-17 knots.

However, that was 7.8hours of engine runtime and 11 hours of generator runtime so average hourly burn was only around 12gph. Of the 7.8 hours I’d estimate 1 hour was spent not on plane

We had rather unfavorable conditions the entire time so I ran with a lot of tab and really put the bow into the water. I suspect it would still be around the 1nm/g mark in some flatter water. Our bottom is also a bit dirty
 
Last edited:
Stee6043 said:
Ohh you have to be kidding me! I must have mis-read the manual then. I was ready to plug my gateways into the diagnostic ports and just use my iPad for this trip but I saw something in the manual that lead me to believe they'd only operate with 12V being supplied from the NMEA network. Ugghh!!! I should have messaged you! Such luck.
Click to expand...

oh wait - maybe I had them on the backbone... I wanted to compare GFS-10 data to FG data and I know I didn't add T's to the backbone to do that, but I probably just used one side at a time.

Sucks that you had to take a long trip without the use of them. We probably shouldn't calculate how much cash they could've saved you...!
 
What were you guys paying for fuel? I was generally $0.40 +/- more than diesel on my trip.

I also ran my generator 100% of the time but I think our Beke's burn 0.5gph? Barely a fart in the wind of my Merc's appetite.

Now I'm really curious to see what my slow cruise MPG can be. I suspect it'll be close to @RollerCoastr but maybe a bit worse with my dinghy arrangement. As mentioned above...it's probably better not to know if we're being honest. 600+gallons of fuel burned in 2 weeks...this has impacted my whiskey budget for what's left of summer :)
 
Stee6043 said:
What were you guys paying for fuel? I was generally $0.40 +/- more than diesel on my trip.

I also ran my generator 100% of the time but I think our Beke's burn 0.5gph? Barely a fart in the wind of my Merc's appetite.

Now I'm really curious to see what my slow cruise MPG can be. I suspect it'll be close to @RollerCoastr but maybe a bit worse with my dinghy arrangement. As mentioned above...it's probably better not to know if we're being honest. 600+gallons of fuel burned in 2 weeks...this has impacted my whiskey budget for what's left of summer :)
Click to expand...

just paid 6.98 for diesel in Rochester. Brutal
 
Stee6043 said:
Yikes, that would hurt. The highest I paid was $6.09. $5.89 was the most common price I paid for 90 octane rec. @$6.98...I'd have been drinking mich ultra the entire two weeks :)
Click to expand...

i know. It’s the only place in rochester with diesel so they don’t have much competition. I meant to fuel up before coming home at 5.75 but the lake was quickly deteriorating so I ran out of time. Like 5.75 is such a good price, lol
 
I was able to pick up diesel at $4.95 in Ludington but the average price for diesel was about 5.40.
 
We haven’t cut back on the travel or runtime to get places this summer but we generally don’t go cruising around once we get there. The dinghy gets a lot of use this year
 
Strecker25 said:
We haven’t cut back on the travel or runtime to get places this summer but we generally don’t go cruising around once we get there. The dinghy gets a lot of use this year
Click to expand...

I think I burned 9 gallons of gas in our tender during my trip. We ran the heck out of that thing! :)
 
Carver370 said:
I spy @Stee6043

View attachment 131877
Click to expand...

Spotted Stee6043 and Carver 370 in Elk Rapids last week and both have beautiful 400's. Briefly met Stee6043 as he came in on my slip neighbor's boat just long enough to say hello. Wish I had more time to socialize. I would agree that he gets a lot of use from his tender as I watched him being chauffeured around the harbor by his personal captain on several occasions. Surprising the water cops with your tender captain's(son's) boaters safety cert when they decided to harass you the night of the fireworks was priceless.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Forum statistics

Threads
113,173
Messages
1,427,907
Members
61,086
Latest member
MrWebster
Back
Top