Calling all canvas people....Let's have an honest discussion....

MonacoMike said:
Could you send me the contact info?

MM
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Fairwinds Canvas, Racine WI
https://fairwindscanvas.com/
262-632-5025
Kathryn Maisto kat@fairwindscanvas.com

During the busy season they can be a little hard to get a hold of, but once I connected with Kat she was absolutely great. Asked very good questions about how we use the boat and the canvas, probably spent an hour talking about options for construction to prevent the leakage problems we were experiencing.

Their info on training classes is on the site as well.
 
yobub said:
We had custom canvas made ..... I was amazed at the difference in construction techniques in how the new company approached the canvas. ...
I'll be up at the boat tonight or tomorrow and I'll post some pictures. It may provide some context for how a professional approaches the project, and may give you some ideas if you decide to take it on yourself.
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It absolutely will, look forward to the picts...
 
It's not the hourly rate so much as a combination of the rate x # of hours. Some of the quoted prices on here defy gravity. I would expect a pro could do it in less time since they have the right gear and experience.
 
I have had a local shop do both of our boats. I got estimates from 2 others on my 1986 250DA. We had the configuration changed to have isinglass above the windshield. They used thick walled aluminum for the tubing and all stainless connectors with Sunbrella material. The total cost was about $2100 and they also modified my cockpit cover to fit around my poles so I didn't have to take the hardware down to put the cover on. The 2 other quotes I got were around $4300 each.

Just had the same shop do our Crownline this spring. They re-used all the hardware but did add 2 struts to the rear bimini since it had straps from the factory and I wanted it changed. The configuration stayed the same as factory other than that. Got Sunbrella and the inner 'lining' so you don't have to treat it every year. Also had them make a new Aqualon cockpit cover. Total was just over $2800. It's the one in my sig pic. Got the whole enclosure for that price. Very happy with the quality and they were great people to deal with. The shop is owned/operated by Mennonites.

I don't know how much the materials would have been but guessing labor had to have been pretty low.

Anyone in the western PA area (or eastern Ohio) want the contact info let me know.
 
This is very interesting. I have been thinking, what happens when the employee screws something up or it just doesn't look good enough and you have to start cutting things up and redoing the project. We go through this every now and then with our gates and when the dust settles at the end of the year there has to be a profit. People, (employees included) think we are cutting a fat hog when we charge 15 to 20 k for a gate system. After shelling out for the mistakes that are made the profits drop rapidly. I believe going into the shop with a list of your concerns BEFORE the project will help to get the project going in the right direction rather than waiting till the end and saying, hey what about this or that. I wasn't happy with the work that was done on our boat after we put the hard top on it but I don't think I made it clear how I wanted some details done. So I said nothing.
 
@hillsideshortleg, you make interesting points.... I should point out, which I haven't previously, that I'm a small business contractor. So those that bring up insurance, business expenses, etc... I get it... Now you want to say have a "fudge factor", ok, add that in....We don't estimate jobs expecting to make mistakes, and if we do, we fix it and it's on me....I'm not expecting, nor am I charging clients for our mistakes...I guess it's just a different world today. Agreed, you should make it clear what you want, but keep in mind, they are the experts and they should know you want the best.

BTW everyone who says I'm not factoring in templating and the drives back and forth to the boat etc....That wasn't included in the estimate....That's additional...and trust me, around here you can guarantee it'd going to climb fast.... $100/hr additional for templating and drive time and fitting... So that est. was just for the canvas...
 
I've been looking for a good canvas guy. The quality I've seen so far doesn't impress me at all. When I finally got the name of someone that was 'really good' I made an appointment to go over what I want with him, in person, at the boat. I told him that I can be there anytime that fits his schedule because I'm not working. He picked date and time, I arrived and he didn't. When I called him he told me he had already looked at the job without me. I was pissed, I drove 250mi for nothing and told him he won't be doing anything on my boat. I still don't have new canvas....don't know who I punished me or him.

High hourly rate alone doesn't scare me off, there's such a difference in expertise, speed, and efficiency one individual to the next...get the right guy and everything can come out OK. If the guy shows up forgetting his tools and his helper is named Mr. DoLittle(really) look out.:( Don't ask me how I know this.
 
$100.00 an hour labor rate for a tradesman who has overhead for a shop and employees is considered pretty reasonable around here. You can get someone who does side jobs and works out of his house cheaper but sometimes you get what you pay for.
 
Craig said:
Mine was $9400 for a full camper, both strata glass and canvas panels, helm cover and cockpit cover. Six month lead time with a third up front. Sunbrella plus with solarfix.
A one guy company with a helper. They charge these rate because we pay it. I do like the end result.
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Missed your post...congrats on being happy... I agree, people pay it...
 
Boat Guy said:
Thanks guys...All good info....

Doozle, do you recommend him?
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Absolutely, the only issue being it’s pretty much just him, like he says if someone says I can get right on it, ya might what to figure out why
 
Craig said:
Mine was $9400 for a full camper, both strata glass and canvas panels, helm cover and cockpit cover. Six month lead time with a third up front. Sunbrella plus with solarfix.
A one guy company with a helper. They charge these rate because we pay it. I do like the end result.
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That's a lot of work and some serious material.
 
The one thing I am not seeing you guys include in the list of qualifications you are looking for ........besides cheap by the hour, do good quality, be on time, etc. .........are the experience you should be paying for in a skilled canvas craftsman.
Does he have the equipment and ability to do the metal work needed for top frames if you are altering SR OEM canvas?, Why 40ga strata glass should not be used on some aft enclosures, What type of thread to use? Why vinyl coated Sunbrella is a mistake. What are your other canvas options?...............Glen Raven Mills, the maker of Sunbrella, and the owner of the finishing patent had their patent expire a few years ago. Woven canvas always has been in the public domain and now with the finishing patents expired, the finishing process is too, and there are several companies making products identical to Sunbrella and sell it for about 1/3 less.

Somebody who knows this industry, has invested in the right equipment and knows what questions to ask can save you an expensive do-over.
 
I suppose I’ve been lucky. I have a really good canvas guy that does high quality work, is on time, and for what I consider a reasonable cost. He also does much work for the local Sea Ray dealer.

A couple years ago I had the whole canvas top redone including the windows. I also had a custom camper made with screens. And full blackout canvas for the entire cockpit. And the original fatback canvas was modified to fit the new camper supports. The canvas guy did all the measuring, templating and installation for one charge. IICR the whole job was about $5000. It turned out fantastic.

I needed new vinyl for a window this year. It was $100 and he had it done in 2 days.

I have tried my hand as sewjbf and enjoyed the challenge. I needed a chafe panel for the back of my camper where the dinghy was rubbing and decided to sewmy own. I got the sunbrella and binding material, templated it and made the panel. It was a simple project as they go, but I can certainly see the need for skill and experience on anything more complex. This is what you pay for. Related, I ran out of binding material and asked my canvas guy if I could buy some as he was repairing another worn out set of windows. His answer? He took my little project and finished it off for me - no charge. Love him for it.
 
fwebster said:
The one thing I am not seeing you guys include in the list of qualifications you are looking for ........besides cheap by the hour, do good quality, be on time, etc. .........are the experience you should be paying for in a skilled canvas craftsman.
Does he have the equipment and ability to do the metal work needed for top frames if you are altering SR OEM canvas?, Why 40ga strata glass should not be used on some aft enclosures, What type of thread to use? Why vinyl coated Sunbrella is a mistake. What are your other canvas options?...............Glen Raven Mills, the maker of Sunbrella, and the owner of the finishing patent had their patent expire a few years ago. Woven canvas always has been in the public domain and now with the finishing patents expired, the finishing process is too, and there are several companies making products identical to Sunbrella and sell it for about 1/3 less.

Somebody who knows this industry, has invested in the right equipment and knows what questions to ask can save you an expensive do-over.
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I very much agree with Frank on this one. I have spoken to many customers for quite some time in advance of quoting and ordering. Frank highlighted some of the discussions I have regularly regarding the use of Seamark and the different types of Eisenglass materials. Sometimes a customer is asking for something by name when they do not really understand why. Depending on use a basic 30g eisenglass panel is sometimes a better choice over the 40g Strataglass panel.

-Kevin
 
b_arrington said:
I suppose I’ve been lucky. I have a really good canvas guy......A couple years ago I had the whole canvas top redone including the windows. I also had a custom camper made with screens. And full blackout canvas for the entire cockpit. ....... It turned out fantastic.

I needed new vinyl for a window this year. It was $100 and he had it done in 2 days.

....... I could buy some as he was repairing another worn out set of windows. His answer? He took my little project and finished it off for me - no charge. Love him for it.
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This is what I'm saying...finding a guy like that is hard to impossible here. Congrats...
 
Boat Guy said:
It absolutely will, look forward to the picts...
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Here are some examples of the construction details that I would never think to do, and I don't think I could fabricate myself, and that certainly increase the cost to construct:

They constructed strips that thread through the channels on the radar arch, that the main bimini and the bimini over the helm zip into. If you take the entire canvas up and down (which we do regularly) it makes it much easier to thread those into the channels on the arch, and then zip the large pieces to the threaded piece. If you've ever taken the main top off, you know what a pain it can be to thread it back in that channel while managing the large piece of canvas. It also means you can take the pieces down with just a zip, and you don't have to remove the piece in the channel, and if you need to get to the gear on the radar arch, no need to remove the top - just unzip to open.

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The main rear window has a large screen zippered in for airflow. I know many fabricators will do this.
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One of the problems we had with our previous canvas was that the "smiley" windows would all leak, even though they were only a couple years old. Our fabricator designed the Strataglass to overlap the outside of the zipper, so the zipper itself isn't directly exposed to rain. It's hard to see from the pictures, but the Strataglass on the outside of the winder is wider than the opening all around, and just overlaps with the outside glass. If forms a flap that keeps water away from the zipper.

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All of the zippers are covered by canvas, with a velcro closure, so that canvas overlaps canvas and is closed, and the zipper sits underneath without being exposed to rain.
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They put in a rubber gasket sewn into the canvas that runs the length of the windshield that seals the canvas to the windshield, so if you are running in rain or waves or wind it won't splash up under the canvas. It also serves to help keep bugs out.
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