Docking with stern drives on 310

My dock neighbor is new to boating. He has a 2010, 310 with stern drives. I took him out today for docking practice. The salesman told him to use the steering wheel, and I said do not. We therefore started with the basics of maneuvering with the shifters only. With my v drives and no thruster I have complete control of my boat. His boat, man it was tough. I could spin the boat on its axis, stern dock, etc but it was not easy. I know the smaller engines and tight drive spacing (small moment arm) are likely the issues. So my question. Am I giving him bad advice to dock/manupeuver with shifters only, or should he also use the wheel? Thanks, Bill.

I am a new owner of a 280 (older version of the 310). I can assure you are giving him sound advice. Using the wheel sends the stern in all directions except the desired. I am becoming more proficient every trip out. When coming down the fair way my drives are straight. As I approach my slip (which is a starboard tie I bring the port engine into reverses to start my swing and usually gas it a bit to stop forward momentum. Port engine basically stays I'm reverse the whole time until in the slip. I use the starboard engine (forward and reverse) to make corrections. I am by no means an expert but my experience has been that as soon as I get nervous and touch the wheel I am all out of whack. Light throttle adjustments are what keep me moving smooth. I am learning real fast that slow and steady is best and if at first I miss my mark I go around again.

Wheel straight, use the throttles. No, it's not as easy with sterndrives, but it's still correct. Of course, sometimes I fall back to using the wheel when I'm getting frustrated (wind or current), but it almost always makes it harder. I usually just need to settle down, change my approach and try again the right way.

Even skilled inboard captains use their rudders when it's advantages...he should learn how to use both.

330 With Stern Drives, Volvo Duo Props. I use the shifters as you have taught him. As previously mentioned I find I have mor turning power with the reverse, I dont favour either side though, just depends which way I am swinging her. I also use quite a bit of just knocking in and out of gear.
The previous owner tells me he always used one motor and the wheel.
Honestly, I believe i control it better than he does though using the sticks. And I have docked it in some pretty strong winds.

I had quite a bit of verbal help from a maritime officer docked behind me, he was operating a Cat with twin outboards, which are closer together than my sterndrives, and he always docked it with the sticks.

I tend to use both approaches. I try to only use only throttles as much as possible but stern drives are at a disadvantage with respect to rotating the boat as easily as v-drives, so you need to use it's advantage in that it can push or pull the stern as needed to slide the boat sideways without moving the bow. With some practice you can maneuver quite well with stern drives and a large cruiser.
The biggest thing to remember is that with the transition from using the wheel to only throttles, you need to get the drives back to center other wise throttles are all but useless.

I agree with woody! You are probably not giving him good advice to only use the forward and reverse. In some situations it is ok, but in wind and current, the wheel and for/rev can really help bump the aft to where you need to go! The pivot point on sterns is very different and doesn't react as well as inboards. He should definitely learn both techniques!

Jeremygavin said:

The biggest thing to remember is that with the transition from using the wheel to only throttles, you need to get the drives back to center other wise throttles are all but useless.

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I had a 89 280 and would use the wheel rarely but at times it was needed and the biggest thing was making sure the drives were centered when going back to just the sticks, I put a ring of tape on the top of the steering wheel and knew it was 2 1/2 turns from hard starboard

I have a 310 with B3's and have experienced the following. First off, the pivot point is waaaaay on the ass end. If it's calm, I center the OD's and only use forward and reverse. Works well. On the other hand, I tried that in a stiff crosswind and had a hell of a time. Ended up using a combination of forward/reverse with the wheel. Definately helped. I've also found using the "thumb" method to be very beneficial.

All that being said, as a newbie - stern docking is a PITA. I need more practice, and after that - some more practice.

Woody said:

Even skilled inboard captains use their rudders when it's advantages...he should learn how to use both.

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I'll second this one.
Backing in with occasional high winds I sometimes grab the wheel for added leverage pulling the stern over.
I always find it funny how people say drives are tough, it just takes practice and awareness - knowing where you pointed them.

Does he have a thruster? If he's planning to keep the boat for a long time without scratches, he should get a thruster. Stern drives with a thruster are better than the complexity and cost of Axius and just as precise in docking. My 290 had no thruster. The 330 did. I went from a zero to a hero when I switched from the 290 to the 330. Any cross wind or current is going to be a disaster every time without the thruster. These boats react to the wind and current like a weathervane and the stern drives just can't overpower the forces.

To answer your question, center the drives and use the throttles with a person on the bow, people on the dock, and anticipating the wind and current like a Zen master.

With the thruster, use the throttles, wheel and thruster together and you can make that boat an extension of your body.

Don't scare the guy, sterndrives can power any issues. Every mooring approach is different, it's all about learning your craft and how it reacts to your power and/or steering actions relative to calm, windy or current conditions.

His boat. His call. Personally, I would say learn both particularly if the drives are not counter rotating. Thrusters are nice. My preference is external vice internal as an after market. The cost is my biggest decision maker here.

KC_Sundancer said:

Don't scare the guy, sterndrives can power any issues. Every mooring approach is different, it's all about learning your craft and how it reacts to your power and/or steering actions relative to calm, windy or current conditions.

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+1

I would encourage him to learn to use everything to get back in the slip. Sometimes the centered wheel and shifters will be enough, other times he may have to use the drives, sometimes you just have a h&ll of a time no matter what you use. The drives will cause the boat to pivot much farther aft than a comparable boat with inboards.

I think the "sticks only" approach is why I/O's get an unfair rap. The ability to direct thrust is very powerful, and as mentioned, the aft pivot-point of stern drives presents challenges. Directed thrust mitigates them.

For example, when you want to correct your angle near a dock to pull your stern closer. An inboard will pivot close to the center, so that's easy, but an I/O will really only want to swing the bow. Use the wheel with I/O's and you'll have control of the stern: toward the dock in reverse, away from the dock in fwd, and done!

RollerCoastr said:

I think the "sticks only" approach is why I/O's get an unfair rap. The ability to direct thrust is very powerful, and as mentioned, the aft pivot-point of stern drives presents challenges. Directed thrust mitigates them.

For example, when you want to correct your angle near a dock to pull your stern closer. An inboard will pivot close to the center, so that's easy, but an I/O will really only want to swing the bow. Use the wheel with I/O's and you'll have control of the stern: toward the dock in reverse, away from the dock in fwd, and done!

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There is the problem, you stated it. With the 310 I/O, as soon as you start messing with the wheel, you need to be ready for lots of unexpected things to happen.
You contradicted yourself, but made a great point too. When you try to control that stern, the bow swings in the other direction.

When backing into a slip with a finger on the port side, docked boat on the starboard side, and wind and current on the port side, the boat is going to drift into the docked boat, with the bow moving faster than the stern. As soon as you start turning that wheel to move the stern closer to the dock or fight the current, the bow is going to go hard into the docked boat.

The better option is to time the wind and current, keep the drives centered, and reverse throttle up the port side while pulse forward throttling on the starboard to keep the line.

Docking anything with twin I/O or OB is difficult with any wind or current at the beam.

I would say it is definitely useful to know how to use both but to provide a learning path, first master using only fwd/rev shifting in calm conditions, then add-in the steering wheel (again in calm conditions) later as it can be useful to move your stern laterally a little. One important technique, whether using the wheel or not, is bumping in and out of gear. If you are using the wheel, shift to neutral, point the wheel, shift into gear, shift to neutral, centre the wheel, point the wheel if necessary again or leave centred, shift into gear, etc. If you start turning the wheel while in reverse gear, it's likely going to get a little hairy. You have to be able to find centre in an instant at all times, likely by quickly going to one lock and then backing off a memorized amount, or by only turning the wheel a prescribed amount that you can always reliably back-off from.

I only use the shifters unless wind or current make it advantageous to use the wheel. And if there is a lot of wind and/or current, I unabashedly use shifters, wheel, thrown lines, dock hands, fender pivot points, and pretty much anything else I can put at my disposal!

That all being said, if I am docking forward alongside a dock or wall, I often drive the boat like a single sterndrive or outboard. In on an angle bow-first, neutral, wait, steer hard toward the dock, reverse both engines to suck the stern over, neutral, centre the wheel, sometimes a little forward with the drive furthest from the dock to push the bow over if it drifted out, maybe a little shot of reverse or forward to arrest any remaining momentum. It's just a lot less shifting.

One other thing I would say, it is a skill not only to learn how to dock, but also to be making many adjustments quickly without it being a panic (or looking like you are in a panic!), or descending into panic. In dead calm weather you can get docked with very few shift changes, none of them close together, no steering wheel input, in a very relaxed manner. Add-in 10mph or so of cross-wind and some gusts, everything changes and it's normal to be making many frequent shift changes with the varying conditions of the moment. And if you use the wheel, you will likely be moving it fairly quickly to direct and then back to centre.

It's an ego thing for some captains to want to look like they just came straight in without hardly touching anything, nodding and waving to onlookers, but in reality there is typically a lot going on whether it is obvious or not to observers.

Finally, in my opinion an important thing to share with a new boat owner is that backing into a slip never gets to the point that it is a no-brainer all the time. It can be a no-brainer sometimes, but not often. In non-ideal conditions and/or in unfamiliar water, it requires careful thought and analysis and then sufficient concentration to use your learned physical skills of operating the controls.

JV II said:

Does he have a thruster? If he's planning to keep the boat for a long time without scratches, he should get a thruster. Stern drives with a thruster are better than the complexity and cost of Axius and just as precise in docking. My 290 had no thruster. The 330 did. I went from a zero to a hero when I switched from the 290 to the 330. Any cross wind or current is going to be a disaster every time without the thruster. These boats react to the wind and current like a weathervane and the stern drives just can't overpower the forces.

To answer your question, center the drives and use the throttles with a person on the bow, people on the dock, and anticipating the wind and current like a Zen master.

With the thruster, use the throttles, wheel and thruster together and you can make that boat an extension of your body.

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I disagree 100% with your Axius statement. Axius is not a maintenance hog - no more so than any other hydraulic steering. I have Gen I which is the "most expensive" to maintain - and it still serves me better than any bow thruster would. No extra holes in the boat. No extra battery. No extra inaccessible parts to get to when things go wrong. No fouling or anodes in the thruster to maintain. And the "family" safety factor is huge. Teaching them to use Axius - easy peasy - teaching them to use engines and bow-thruster - nowhere near as easy.

The price difference between Axius and Bow Thruster is $10.000-$15.000 (Bowthrusters are ? $9000+) - even at that cost I would not hesitate for a SECOND to chose Axius.

Thanks for the input, it is appreciated.

Before we left the dock we talked through the process, different scenarios of docking, small/incremental shift changes, etc. IE, only go as fast as you are willing to hit something, and to stay calm.

Good point, about the pivot point being further aft, than my V drive props.

I dont use the wheel to dock, so I am not going to tackle that one. I will therefore encourge them to use the shifters, but only go out when the wind is low. As they improve their skills, they can add in the wheel later if needed, for winder days.

JV II said:

There is the problem, you stated it. With the 310 I/O, as soon as you start messing with the wheel, you need to be ready for lots of unexpected things to happen.
You contradicted yourself, but made a great point too. When you try to control that stern, the bow swings in the other direction.

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Why do you say unexpected? Everything that happens can be predicted when you know what forces are at work.

The strategy I described moves the stern much more than the bow. Imagine no wind, no current and the bow boat is angled in the slip and stern is too far away. Sticks only won't move the stern effectively without using considerable fore-aft movement. Directed thrust WILL move the stern.

In the scenario of wind and current, I totally agree with your strategy. My point is, and I'll always stand by it, is that never using directed thrust when it's available to you is a mistake, and it has lead people to falsely believe that twin I/O's are hard to handle. (they have more variables, they're more complicated, but they have MORE maneuverability than inboards)