State of the pleasure boat cruising economy

Theresamarie11 said:
But I do get a bit excited when someone starts to generalize and throw around the wrong facts. FACT: Tax rate as a percentage of gdp is the lowest since 1950 (why we have such a deficit), taxes of companies as a % of GDP is actually lowest for USA versus ALL industrialized nations (again, why we have a deficit). There is a problem but it's not liberals.
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I too "...get a bit excited when someone starts to generalize and throw around the wrong facts."

"U.S. Companies Pay World’s Sixth-Highest Tax Rate, Study Finds"

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-...rld-s-sixth-highest-tax-rate-study-finds.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_rates_around_the_world
 
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sfergson727 said:
I've owned a boat since the early 90's, and run them since the late 70's.

I also keep records of my expenditures.
Average fuel cost per gallon over the seasons:
2005 $2.71 per gallon (low 2.42, high 3.02)
2006 $3.05 per gallon (low 2.63, high 3.46)
2007 $3.40 per gallon (low 3.26, high 3.54)
2008 $4.34 per gallon (low 3.69, high 4.85)
2009, 2010 not available on this computer, I'll post it when I get back to the boat.

We started the season at $4.89 per gallon for 2011, and are currently at $4.19.

In the early 2000's, boat fuel was still in the $1.85 range.

As for your theories on taxes, someone once said not to argue with ignorance, as they will just lower you to the same level and beat you with experience. Suffice to say that if obama had his way, we would all be taxed much much more, and this country would be in the throws of a great depression.
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Scott, don't really understand your need to be insulting. You made my point for me. Gas isn't double since you bought you 2007 (I was using you as an example).
This country enjoys low taxes in general and really low taxes for corporations and those on the very top, which I'm pretty sure you're not one of, and neither am I. The top 400 in the US paid 18% in taxes in 2008 versus 26% in 1992. The country is being duped, and fed the koolaid. You can continue to call names and insult me and others who have a different point of view or use facts instead of rhetoric, but facts are facts. If I have to stop driving a 30' boat so my dad or others can get what they were promised, so be it. My dad never had a 30' boat. But don't tell me my dad needs to suffer and that we should continue corporate welfare and subsidize big oil and that the top 400 should pay 1/2 of my tax rate.
 
Theresamarie11 said:
But lets not fix it by cutting social security to the old who didn't even know what a 401K was when they were working their tails off.

And I do know I'm fortunate. I have 3 wonderful sons the oldest of which is a Marine, who I'm doubly proud of!!
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Who has proposed "cutting social security to the old who didn't even know what a 401K was"? Names and links please.

Congrats on your family and your sons service. MM
 
MonacoMike said:
I too "...get a bit excited when someone starts to generalize and throw around the wrong facts."

"U.S. Companies Pay World’s Sixth-Highest Tax Rate, Study Finds"

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-...rld-s-sixth-highest-tax-rate-study-finds.html
Click to expand...

So who's facts are right Mike, I am not an economist. This is from a white house economic advisor.

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/05/31/are-taxes-in-the-u-s-high-or-low/

I tried to post the table, but can not.
 
sfergson727 said:
Spoken like a true Lib.

First off, as highlighted above, the game has changed. When most of us bought our boats, fuel was half of what it is now per gallon, groceries were half of what they are now, energy for the home was half of what it is now, need I go on? My income sure as hell has not doubled along with the cost of everything associated with living, has yours? Didn't think so.

By the logic that you and gnephew go by, we should be able to absorb $10 gas and be loving life because we are "living in our means"...... BULL****!

Take your high and mighty, holier than thou logic and cram it.
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+10
 
Theresamarie11 said:
Like I said, it's not double. A third higher is a dollar higher which is what i said. And I don't smoke. I am not an economist and don't pretend to be and I bet you're not either. We all want to live a good life, but don't seem to want to pay for good roads or pay for those who paved the way for us (our elders).. I'll be the first to agree the gov't wastes too much money, so lets fix it. But lets not fix it by cutting social security to the old who didn't even know what a 401K was when they were working their tails off. And lets not fix it by cutting taxes more, which just creates a bigger hole for our kids kids kids to dig out of. It has to be balanced. The country has huge issues that need serious and non-political and non-self-serving solutions.. it's going to be painful for everyone. Rhetoric and name calling isn't going to do anything. Corporations do pay taxes, and the US corporations pay less than any industrialized nation. They can't fix the problem, but they can pay their fair share and that's all I'm advocating, is for everyone to pay their fair share.

I'm also pretty sure I didn't pick on the big boat crowd at all, what I suggested is if you have a big boat you should be prepared to put gas in it. And i you're driving a 40' boat and worried about groceries, you prob shouldn't have bought a 40' boat. Not sure that's picking on anyone.

And I do know I'm fortunate. I have 3 wonderful sons the oldest of which is a Marine, who I'm doubly proud of!!
Click to expand...

Terri, you are absolutely correct in your assesment of our current economic troubles. Unfortunately there are way to many that are blinded by their own ideoligy and are only content with blaming Obama for everything including the direction the sun rises and sets. I have to wonder if this hatred would be so vitriolic if he were a white man. Sad to think that, but you have to wonder.

Greg
 
Every TAX PAYER's share of the national debt is now $126,000 each. They could take every wealthy man's money in the country and not have enough money to pay down the debt, estimates are it would pay down around $2 trillion, 12.5 trilliion to go. Taxes just wont work but will just help to feed the machine to keep it growing and spending more. It is a spending problem not a revenue problem. The revenue simply cannot keep pace with the level of spending no matter how much they tax because at some point, and I think we are close, higher taxes will reduce revenue not increase it per the Laffer Curve economics; 0% tax = 0 revenue and 100% tax = 0 revenue. Somewhere around 30 to 40% is max revenue. Between state and federal tax, social security and vehicle fees, I think we are clearly at max revenue now. Gotta control the spending on all fronts. Raising taxes used to work when the tax rate was 10% or 20% but we are at the max on the curve, no easy way out for the government anymore......except inflation, but that is whole different hidden tax animal, and they are already hard at work on that angle anyway.

I wish this was clearly a Rep vs. Dem problem. If it were, it could be easily fixed. The real problem is that it is both, and no matter who is working the controls, they all work for close enough to the same club as not to really change anything. If this werent true, things would get better, but when you really look at it, we have been getting into a deeper and deeper hole for many decades.
 
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Just had to play the race card. I'm certain there are people who would hate Obama if he looked like Brad Pitt. I haven't been very hopeful about the so called change.
gnephew511 said:
Terri, you are absolutely correct in your assesment of our current economic troubles. Unfortunately there are way to many that are blinded by their own ideoligy and are only content with blaming Obama for everything including the direction the sun rises and sets. I have to wonder if this hatred would be so vitriolic if he were a white man. Sad to think that, but you have to wonder.

Greg
Click to expand...
 
JediJD said:
Also, corporations don't pay taxes...people pay taxes. Corporations are owned by people.
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Theresamarie11 said:
Corporations do pay taxes, and the US corporations pay less than any industrialized nation. They can't fix the problem, but they can pay their fair share and that's all I'm advocating, is for everyone to pay their fair share.
Click to expand...


There are only three sources of money in a corporation the shareholder that own it, the employees that work there, or the consumers that buy from it. A corporation has NO money; any cash is in a conduit on its way to someone. Corporate taxes act as a leak of cash from that pipeline leaving less to go to the rightful owners. A shareholder gets less return on their investment to pay corporate taxes. Employees get paid less as there is less money left to pay them with after paying corporate taxes. Consumers pay more for goods and services so the corporation can pay taxes. If just forming a corporation instantly has amonetary value not from the above sources let me know how to create one for me.

The corporations leave this country for many reasons already posted by others in this thread.
 
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Theresamarie11 said:
Like I said, it's not double. A third higher is a dollar higher which is what i said. And I don't smoke. I am not an economist and don't pretend to be and I bet you're not either. We all want to live a good life, but don't seem to want to pay for good roads or pay for those who paved the way for us (our elders).. I'll be the first to agree the gov't wastes too much money, so lets fix it. But lets not fix it by cutting social security to the old who didn't even know what a 401K was when they were working their tails off. And lets not fix it by cutting taxes more, which just creates a bigger hole for our kids kids kids to dig out of. It has to be balanced. The country has huge issues that need serious and non-political and non-self-serving solutions.. it's going to be painful for everyone. Rhetoric and name calling isn't going to do anything. Corporations do pay taxes, and the US corporations pay less than any industrialized nation. They can't fix the problem, but they can pay their fair share and that's all I'm advocating, is for everyone to pay their fair share.

I'm also pretty sure I didn't pick on the big boat crowd at all, what I suggested is if you have a big boat you should be prepared to put gas in it. And i you're driving a 40' boat and worried about groceries, you prob shouldn't have bought a 40' boat. Not sure that's picking on anyone.

And I do know I'm fortunate. I have 3 wonderful sons the oldest of which is a Marine, who I'm doubly proud of!!
Click to expand...


fair share ? what do you consider fair share ? how about this 50 % of people living in this country pay NOTHING thats right NOTHING ya think they should kick in a bit ? and please don't hand me that they pay SS and Medicare because that isn't a tax its them paying into there retirement
You are correct name calling will do nothing but call a spade a spade
But all that being said we are all talking about the wrong number we should be talking about unfunded liabilities that number is 65 TRILLION
the problem is not revenue its spending we waste more money and baby way to many people
people in this country have a rite to get a job
they have a rite to get a fair wage they have a right buy and PAY for a home they have a rite to BUY health care nothing is free what one person gets another is paying for
LIBS just like to spend other peoples money
 
gnephew511 said:
Terri, you are absolutely correct in your assesment of our current economic troubles. Unfortunately there are way to many that are blinded by their own ideoligy and are only content with blaming Obama for everything including the direction the sun rises and sets. I have to wonder if this hatred would be so vitriolic if he were a white man. Sad to think that, but you have to wonder.

Greg
Click to expand...


Really! Rreally! the race card? you got to be kidding....
 
gnephew511 said:
Terri, you are absolutely correct in your assesment of our current economic troubles. Unfortunately there are way to many that are blinded by their own ideoligy and are only content with blaming Obama for everything including the direction the sun rises and sets. I have to wonder if this hatred would be so vitriolic if he were a white man. Sad to think that, but you have to wonder.

Greg
Click to expand...

That quote is out of bounds in my opinion.
 
gregkjones said:
Every TAX PAYER's share of the national debt is now $126,000 each. They could take every wealthy man's money in the country and not have enough money to pay down the debt, estimates are it would pay down around $2 trillion, 12.5 trilliion to go. Taxes just wont work but will just help to feed the machine to keep it growing and spending more. It is a spending problem not a revenue problem. The revenue simply cannot keep pace with the level of spending no matter how much they tax because at some point, and I think we are close, higher taxes will reduce revenue not increase it per the Laffer Curve economics; 0% tax = 0 revenue and 100% tax = 0 revenue. Somewhere around 30 to 40% is max revenue. Between state and federal tax, social security and vehicle fees, I think we are clearly at max revenue now. Gotta control the spending on all fronts. Raising taxes used to work when the tax rate was 10% or 20% but we are at the max on the curve, no easy way out for the government anymore......except inflation, but that is whole different hidden tax animal, and they are already hard at work on that angle anyway.

I wish this was clearly a Rep vs. Dem problem. If it were, it could be easily fixed. The real problem is that it is both, and no matter who is working the controls, they all work for close enough to the same club as not to really change anything. If this werent true, things would get better, but when you really look at it, we have been getting into a deeper and deeper hole for many decades.
Click to expand...
:smt038Some one else agrees with this country bumpkin. This is a Washington thing not a Dem or Rep thing. With a couple exceptions Washington has been guilty of deficit spending for 60yrs and we have seen the associated increase in the national debt. What's the mystery here?
 
Theresamarie11 said:
Scott, don't really understand your need to be insulting. You made my point for me. Gas isn't double since you bought you 2007 (I was using you as an example).
This country enjoys low taxes in general and really low taxes for corporations and those on the very top, which I'm pretty sure you're not one of, and neither am I. The top 400 in the US paid 18% in taxes in 2008 versus 26% in 1992. The country is being duped, and fed the koolaid. You can continue to call names and insult me and others who have a different point of view or use facts instead of rhetoric, but facts are facts. If I have to stop driving a 30' boat so my dad or others can get what they were promised, so be it. My dad never had a 30' boat. But don't tell me my dad needs to suffer and that we should continue corporate welfare and subsidize big oil and that the top 400 should pay 1/2 of my tax rate.
Click to expand...


We can agree on one thing we really need to stop subsidizing not just cooperation which we should but also everyone and everything else, it is not the governments responsibility to subsidize
 
Theresamarie11 said:
So who's facts are right Mike, I am not an economist. This is from a white house economic advisor.

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/05/31/are-taxes-in-the-u-s-high-or-low/

I tried to post the table, but can not.
Click to expand...

Do you care what the gross income of your neighbors is? I do not care what the GDP is, only what I have to pay. In my opinion they are playing with numbers to jusify the rates they support. The chart I linked to shows the actual rate payed on corporate income. The blog you linked is a political advisor. Bloomberg is a credible source quoting a study by PricewaterhouseCoopers LLP. MM
 
I need to buy a bigger boat to piss off the liberals!
 
jrock1062 said:
fair share ? what do you consider fair share ? how about this 50 % of people living in this country pay NOTHING thats right NOTHING ya think they should kick in a bit ? and please don't hand me that they pay SS and Medicare because that isn't a tax its them paying into there retirement
You are correct name calling will do nothing but call a spade a spade
But all that being said we are all talking about the wrong number we should be talking about unfunded liabilities that number is 65 TRILLION
the problem is not revenue its spending we waste more money and baby way to many people
people in this country have a rite to get a job
they have a rite to get a fair wage they have a right buy and PAY for a home they have a rite to BUY health care nothing is free what one person gets another is paying for
LIBS just like to spend other peoples money
Click to expand...
Unless it's an option it sure looks like a tax to me.
 
gnephew511 said:
I have to wonder if this hatred would be so vitriolic if he were a white man. Sad to think that, but you have to wonder.
Greg
Click to expand...

Well that didn’t take long…good for you, right out of the playbook.
 
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