420/44 DB Owners Club

The only time I turn my batteries off is about 2 weeks/year when the boat is getting it's annual hydraulic lift scraping and painting (I'm really into hydraulics these days). My current AGM's are going on their 5th season and still going strong. The boat is always plugged in with the converter running....
 
bmac said:
Alex

To avoid any of the beer going bad I stay on the boat until it's all gone!!! ....
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Hey Brian,

With the amount of booze I have there's no chance I would even attempt to finish it all....:lol:

It looks like we have mixed responses where some folks (like myself) turn the batteries off and some leave them all on. I feel that in my situation it's a bit more riskier to leave the fridge running, b/c in the event of a power lose for extended period I'll be at risk of loosing the battereis. It's very different to what Greg described, turning everything off on the 12v side, except the cockpit lights.
 
I never turn off my batteries and never did in our 320 either, and now with the 480, nope leaving them on and if we have an issue at least 'i'll know immediately.
 
Some info from the long weekend...

Last Summer we noticed the salon A/C was having trouble keeping up on 85+ degree days. This Spring, I called Gioia Sails (OEM canvas maker) and ordered a salon windshield cover in white canvas (well it is really more like a cross between canvas and sailcloth...). They sent it to me about 10 days later - perfectly cut and bound - for $300. We did have to put the snaps on ourselves...

Downside: It is nicer with the original black mesh cover when you want an open feel in the salon. Being able to see forward makes a definite difference.

Upside: It feels like I bought a 32,000 BTU A/C for the salon!!!

Before I put the white cover on, I shot the windshield with an I/R thermometer gun. It was 132 degrees. The shelf below it (with the skylights for the heads) was 108 degrees. An hour after I put the cover on (same sun, higher temps outside), the windshield was 94 degrees and the shelf was 83 degrees.

Very happy with this purchase... The salon A/C cycles on and off even when it is over 90 outside. Instead of just grinding away with a cabin temp of 80+.
 
Keeping salon cool is something I've noticed that differ from 320DA or I guess any DA for that matter. With all large windows providing 360 deg. view it gets hot and takes more to cool it off. For a moment I though that there's something wrong with my A/C unit. I had it set at 72-73 and it felt much warmer. But, when I used I/R thermometer gun at the vent it read 67deg. I'll be testing it more by slightly closing the blinds to restrict some son light but provide some visibility.

BTW, do you usually run forward A/C unit as well to help the salon unit to keep the salon cool?
 
You may want to search for threads that Festivus posted about his AC issues with the 420 DB and how he addressed them (some involved Cruisair if I recall). It seems a lot of people complain about the ability of the 420 DB HVAC design to cool the cabin. I know on the early models of the 480 DB, they had issues with the main cabin cooling but the later models where a lot better. I don't have any trouble keeping the cabin at 72 degrees on 100 degree days... and yes, cooling the lower floor with the staterooms will help the salon (my wife keeps those at a meat chilling 68). Otherwise, the salon AC has to remove the heat from the air that lower section of the boat is putting out (heat rises).
 
What temp is the air when you are seeing 67 in the vent? That seems a little warm, but the key is the differential - how much cooler the outlet is than the inlet...

I definitely find that the window shades help keep the salon cooler. I also keep the forward cabin A/C on at all times - helps tremendously. Our salon temp was 73 all weekend - even with outside temps in the 90's.

The fundamental problem with the 420/44DB is that we have two 16,000 BTU A/C's. I've heard that to go to a stronger unit requires 240V compressors - which would mean a different generator and a more complex electrical system.
 
First_Mate said:
What temp is the air when you are seeing 67 in the vent? That seems a little warm, but the key is the differential - how much cooler the outlet is than the inlet...

I definitely find that the window shades help keep the salon cooler. I also keep the forward cabin A/C on at all times - helps tremendously. Our salon temp was 73 all weekend - even with outside temps in the 90's.

The fundamental problem with the 420/44DB is that we have two 16,000 BTU A/C's. I've heard that to go to a stronger unit requires 240V compressors - which would mean a different generator and a more complex electrical system.
Click to expand...

My thermostat was set to 72 or 73 (I don't remember 100%), the forward A/C unit was on set to 75deg. Since the master stateroom area is smaller and has only a small hatch it stays way cooler and 75deg feels good. My friend had the I/R gun and my only concern was if the salon A/C is functioning correctly. With the thermo set to 72-73 the air coming out of the grill was 67deg. So, we thought that the unit works fine. We didn't take salon temp reading but I would guess it was in the mid or upper 70s. It was comfortable but I just remember that if I had set the thermostat to 73 in 320DA we'd be freezing.

I later tested by adjusting the blinds and cranked the FAN on HIGH. I figure that while the complressor stay at the same rate it'll help if the fan will blow the air harder and it'll help to cool the area. I felt that this approach helped, but I'll be monitoring it in the future and see if anything needs to be done.
 
I'll shoot my temps all the way around this weekend. It's supposed to be 94 and sunny, so the A/C's will definitely be tested...
 
I can tell you last weekend in NY it was in the high 80's low 90's. My MSR AC was set at 68 and would cycle on and off all day and mostly stay off at night. My Salon AC was also set at 68 and struggled to maintain 70, never cycling off. It did cycle at night. We had virtually no humidity last weekend. When the temps climb into the mid 90's with the usual humidity, my Salon AC will work all day to keep that space at 73. The solar gain through the front windshield is the primary culprit but the poor ducting design and outlet locations, as well as the unit not being sealed to outer spaces, doesn't help the situation.
 
Four Suns said:
You may want to search for threads that Festivus posted about his AC issues with the 420 DB and how he addressed them (some involved Cruisair if I recall). It seems a lot of people complain about the ability of the 420 DB HVAC design to cool the cabin. I know on the early models of the 480 DB, they had issues with the main cabin cooling but the later models where a lot better. I don't have any trouble keeping the cabin at 72 degrees on 100 degree days... and yes, cooling the lower floor with the staterooms will help the salon (my wife keeps those at a meat chilling 68). Otherwise, the salon AC has to remove the heat from the air that lower section of the boat is putting out (heat rises).
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Gary,

I remember Tim's thread about adding bridge A/C where he also mentioned redoing some dock work from forward stateroom to the salon area to make the forward A/C help the salon A/C. But, I looks like I just found another link you're referring to: http://clubsearay.com/showthread.php/3914-How-Cold-is-Cold-(A-C-question)

I have a feelling that redoing some dock work will be on my to-do list for this fall/winter.

bmac said:
I can tell you last weekend in NY it was in the high 80's low 90's. My MSR AC was set at 68 and would cycle on and off all day and mostly stay off at night. My Salon AC was also set at 68 and struggled to maintain 70, never cycling off. It did cycle at night. We had virtually no humidity last weekend. When the temps climb into the mid 90's with the usual humidity, my Salon AC will work all day to keep that space at 73. The solar gain through the front windshield is the primary culprit but the poor ducting design and outlet locations, as well as the unit not being sealed to outer spaces, doesn't help the situation.
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Brian,

I think I'm not at the point when I'm complaining about unit not being able to keep up, I hope it stays that way. But, I felt a big difference between how my 320DA was cooling and felt a need to verify that my salon unit was functioning. As the emidiate steps I have to make some adjustments and see if there's improvment. The fact that forward unit works with ease my first thought was adding/merging the
dockwork with salon unit.

Another area where I did noticed the temp difference were the heads, but I guess this is due to poor dock work. On my 320 it was blowing so hard (fan was on auto) that my wife was always closing the vent when she was in there. On 420 (with fan set to auto) it bearly blows in both heads, and this is fed from forward A/C unit.
 
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bmac said:
The solar gain through the front windshield is the primary culprit ...
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Do you guys have a shade to cover the front windshield? I have a black mesh snap on cover that blocks a lot of the sun. Helps with privacy also, from inside you can look right out, but from outside it is harder to see in.
 
Yes Greg, my boad has the windshield mash shade. I'm sure it helps a ton.
 
Greg said:
Do you guys have a shade to cover the front windshield? I have a black mesh snap on cover that blocks a lot of the sun. Helps with privacy also, from inside you can look right out, but from outside it is harder to see in.
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Yes, Greg, I have it. I believe it was standard on the 420/44DB. Sunbrella is the manufacturer of the mesh. They make it in two different weaves, the ones we have and a tighetr one. They also make it in many colors though i've only seen black ones. My canvas guy suggested he make one out of white with the finer weave to block more sun. I may do that this summer, I'm just not sure I'll like the way the white looks.
 
Brian,

I will add extra dock outlets fed from forward A/C (if I have to) before I would mess up the sexy look with white mash. :grin:
 
Alex F said:
Another area where I did noticed the temp difference were the heads, but I guess this is due to poor dock work. On my 320 it was blowing so hard (fan was on auto) that my wife was always closing the vent when she was in there. On 420 (with fan set to auto) it bearly blows in both heads, and this is fed from forward A/C unit.
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FWIW, I had little air flow from part of my AC system. I checked the duct work and found where a pc of the flexible duct work had come off a plastic flange. All that had held it together were two screws into the plastic, plastic broke and hose fell.
 
Alex, I find the forward AC unit (does the forward stateroom and the head) has a much easier time than the salon unit does - mainly b/c there's only one hatch to allow light in AND that part of the cabin is partially under water.

I have every millimeter of salon window covered, which kinda sucks b/c there's little natural light - and that unit still struggles on hot days, just like you bigger guys. I just had the grey canvas cover for the forward salon windows re-made and I often toyed with having a white one made, since it will reflect the heat rather than absorb and transmit it to the glass - my concern is with how it will resist dirt and bird poop and stuff. Did Gioia make it out of sunbrella or more of a nylon type material? They are local to my marina and they made my bridge cover 3 years ago.

InSlip-1.jpg
 
I guess this past weekend no one in our area had issues keeping the salon cool :grin:. Due to lower temps the bay and the river temps slightly dropped as well.

I got another puzzle. The vacuuflash hose from guest head runs through the guest stateroom under the port side berth. Obviously, none of the openings around the hose are sealed. When I lift the bed platform to access the storage below I get the bad odor. I don't see any leaks as far as the eyes can see. The odor is not very bad, but very noticable. It's fine when the bad is in normal position and the storage is closed, but I would still like to get rid of the smell. Do you guys have something similar or is your under berth storage is totally odor free? Any suggestions?
 
Alex, if you haven't already done this, you might want to check the hose while the vacuum pump is running, assuming the hose is between the head and pump. That's how I discovered a problem; I could hear and feel the leak which was causing the pump to run often and causing a smell.
 
My setup is similar, hose runs under the floor along the port side. But no smell when I open the floor storage compartments.

Hose is also not sealed where it passes through the bulkheads.
 
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