Broken mooring....Do I have to pay?

Its irrelevant whether or not you knew someone else's property was public or private. It is also irrelevant what condition the mooring was in. You damaged someone else's property and therefore owe them the cost of repair or replacement.

Additionally, think about the Golden Rule here. Yes, you owe it to them on that basis alone. Ethically, its the correct thing to do.
 
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sfergson727 said:
If I broke it, I expect to pay for it. Same thing if I broke something at my marina here in Michigan City. Public versus private does not matter. If I was using it, and it broke, I'm not going to blame someone else.

When I was a child, my best friend let me play with his toy, and I broke it. I took my paper route money and bought him a new one. Yes, my answer would be the same.
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Scott is 100% right. You broke it, you fix it.
My rationale: You used it - you didn't have permission - while you were using it, it broke. Step up, be a responsible boater, pay the owner and apologize for the inconvenience he may have suffered without offering excuses.

I suggest you pay up, $750 tends to grow exponentially when lawyers and the courts get involved.
 
Interesting reading. As a matter of full disclosure, I am a mooring owner. We mooring owners have a simple perspective; if it ain't yours, or you don't know who owns the mooring, you ask before using. If the harbormaster goes off duty at 5:30 and you arrive later and he is the only one who can tell you who owns the mooring, you have two choices; a) use the mooring at your risk and responsibility, or b) go somewhere else.

Not only is this courteous, it is also smart. The mooring location and ball we use for our 280 is the same we used to use for our 18' Zodiac RIB. The chain is two sizes larger and the block 1,000 pounds heavier though.

If the ball and any chain were never returned to the owner, then $ 750 sounds about right, or rather it is about what an installed replacement would probably cost me.

The counter for the 'it was used already' argument is; 'After you left I had no place to safely moor my boat.' But it just doesn't matter. You used it, you broke it. Do the right thing and pay the money.

Henry

As to Comsnark's comments: Technically speaking all moorings and docks in salt/ tidal waters are in the public domain. The distinction between 'private' and 'public' is that the appropriate authority licenses an individual to use a specific location exclusively, public moorings may be maintained either for hire e.g. yacht club, or by the town in a manner to public street parking.
 
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I agree with the vast majority, you need to pay up. Insurance will most likely have a $500 deductible or will just increase because you made a claim. I would offer him $500 and leave it at that. :wink: $750 does sound like a lot but that is most likely new tackle and paying someone to go out and do the job. It is a "marine" job and we all know what adding the word "marine" will do to the cost of things. :grin:
 
You broke it you pay for it is the right thing to do. It seems as though you agree with that.

But, before you just pony up the $750, ask for a break-down of exactly what you are paying for. As mentioned above, this could (and rightfully should) include the retrieval of the ground tackle - possibly just hooking it with a small anchor, maybe paying for a diver. Your responsibility is to replace the pieces you broke and the labor needed to return the mooring to it's prior state. For example... If there is no damage to the ball itself, you should not be paying for a new one.
 
You owe for the fair market value of the mooring that was damaged not the replacement cost new. If I total your car I am not liable to buy you a new one but only to pay for the fair market value of the car. If the mooring was in poor condition you should offer to pay a reasonable percentage of the replacement cost.
 
I hope that the worst set of bad decisions/bad consequences I have on my boat results in my owing $750. Sorry, but put me in the "you used it without permission and it broke while you were using it...pay the man" camp.
 
I would get a price quote from someone to install a new mooring. If it is less than $750 simply hire it done and let the owner know you have replaced it in kind and walk away. I agree that it sucks that it had to happen the only time you used the mooring but I would probably request that you replce it if it were mine.
 
searaycruisn said:
Maybe the question I should ask is, do most people assume that unmarked moorkings at resort harbors such as Block Island are public moorings...or do you normally believe them to be private unless they are marked as public?

And what conclusions would you reach about an unmarked mooring?

Or maybe it does not matter, and you believe the boater is responsible for a public as well as a private mooring?
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If it's unmarked assume it's private. Public moorings often have color codes and the charts or cruising guides call them out.

Someone else mentioned a harbor master, call the harbor master and ask if there is a mooring you can stay on and is there a charge. Mooring balls rent for $15 - $25 a night, pretty short money and they are likely not to break.

Speaking as someone who does own a mooring, I would be mighty displeased if someone poached my mooring ball, broke it, and then took off without leaving a note as to how to contact them to discuss payment for the damage they caused.

If my chain was rusted and the boat that tied up to it was not oversized, I'd probably let it go and take it as a lesson to be better about having my chain inspected. If the boat was oversized for the mooring I'd want payment.

You asked, so I'm providing input.

Good luck with whatever your decision; $750 is short money for good kharma in my opinion.
 
I know it stinks, but I think you kind of have a moral obligation to pay. It might have been a rusted POS to begin with, but it broke when you were using it. It's too bad that you didn't know it was private, but it kind of is your responsibility to know, or at least go out of your way to know.
Unfortunately, ignorance isn't really a plausible excuse.
 
I agree that you need to take responsibility for the fact that it broke when you were using it. However, if the ball is still usable and you can recover the chain to the anchor, I think you should have it recovered and repair the break. That avoids the questions of replacement in kind and whether the original mooring was in poor condition to start with. It may also be cheaper than replacing the entire mooring.
 
Does this sound like a buoy that will hold a 38 foot boat? I do not want to replace a bouy that holds a small boat, with a buoy that holds my boat. How big a boat will this bouy hold assuming a 400 - 500lb. base?

The letter I received included an invoice as follows:

2 1/2 inch shackles 3.98
3 3/4 inch shackels 86.67
2 3 strand mooring pendant 58 X 12 85.38
1 Sur Moor 18 inch Mooring Buoy 174.99
16 Chain 5/8" 118.88
16 Chain 1/2" 80.00
Sales Tax 38.89

Total $588.39

Labor $150.00
 
So the guy wants EVERTHING brand new then ??. Thats bullsh*t !!!, :smt021
 
Nobody's asked this yet, so I will:

If the mooring was completely unmarked, as indicated by the OP, then I would wonder how the late to come forward owner can even prove that he was in fact the owner? I would pay to repair what I broke, not replace everything with brand new, and ONLY after it was PROVEN to me that I was dealing with the rightful owner.

And sorry "Scott of the most excellent Sea Ray "Destiny"" - If I, you, or anyone else totals your car, you won't get a brand new one, unless of course it was brand new at the time of the loss.
 
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We probably don't have a mooring within 500 miles of us so this is new to me, but I wonder:

1. Why can't transient boats anchor over night and completely avoid this potential problem?

2. Obviously, the owner expects to be repaid for his damage, but have you considered depreciating the total claim by the amount of use he effectively got out of it before you damaged it? Like a mooring has a 10 year useful life (I'm estimating) and it was 7 years old so you owe him 30% of the amount he requested for parts + the $150 labor since the last 3 years is what he lost.

3. Can you source some of that stuff somewhere at less t han retail? For example, we can buy 1/2" stainless steel anchor chain for under $3/ft. from a wholesaler and make up the mooring pendant from bulk line........
 
searaycruisn said:
Does this sound like a buoy that will hold a 38 foot boat? I do not want to replace a bouy that holds a small boat, with a buoy that holds my boat. How big a boat will this bouy hold assuming a 400 - 500lb. base?

The letter I received included an invoice as follows:

2 1/2 inch shackles 3.98
3 3/4 inch shackels 86.67
2 3 strand mooring pendant 58 X 12 85.38
1 Sur Moor 18 inch Mooring Buoy 174.99
16 Chain 5/8" 118.88
16 Chain 1/2" 80.00
Sales Tax 38.89

Total $588.39

Labor $150.00
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The mooring buoy's main job is to float the chain underneath it. It all depends on the size/length of the chain, which ultimately results in a weight. The ball, itself, really has nothing to do with the size of the boat. It looks like you're being asked to completely rebuild the whole thing, save whatever is being used as an anchor.

Does all of it need to be replaced, or was some of it there when you left? Was some type of float attached to the chain to avoid searching for it?

Looking only at that list (and doing some assuming), I would say the depth at high tide there is no more than about 12 - 15 feet. That would make finding the chain that is still on the bottom quite easy.
 
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The point of my post is that you could likely prove ownership of your car through title and/or registration before any money exchanged hands. I would expect the same of the mooring ball owner before any discussion of compensation took place.

And as for the car example, you will only get fair market value for your totaled car. If you are careless with your financing and upside down by $2k, then why would it be anyone elses problem (expcept for Obama maybe) to bail you out?
 
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but suppose I owe $8000 on the now totalled car, and the person who wrecked it only came forward with $6000,
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That's the chance you take when you lend out your car to friends !!. :smt001
 
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Your character is showing, and it isn't pretty my friend.
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I'm sorry i just tell it like it is !!. Why sugar coat things??. The guy is trying to hose him for all BRAND NEW parts. Thats not right. :smt021. Up here you'd get your a$$ kicked for sending a bill like that.
 
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Sorry, but "odds favor" won't pass my check book. There are a lot of people out there trying to make a buck - maybe even a friend of the harbor master kid referenced earlier. It's even more peculiar to me that it took the supposed "owner" this long to come forward. PROVE ownership to me, and I would pay for what I damaged or broke.

I don't get the intent of your second point, unless you are trying to imply that any individual or insurance company is going to reward your financial ineptitude by "giving" you $8k for a car that has a FMV of $6k.
 
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