Broken mooring....Do I have to pay?

It's easy to tell the OP about his moral obligation to pay for this $750 incident. How moral would you'all be if it was you, and this was a $75,000 issue? My guess is you would be running to your lawyer and looking for a way out.

Possible, but I don't think so. There have been several times in my life where I haven't lived up to my personal expectations. Doesn't mean I don't continue to try. The trick is to keep trying...and if you are honorable about the little things...the big things come a lot easier.
 
I think people are hardwired to either embrace personal responsibility, or to avoid it. I have tried to instill in my kids (by example and occasional thrashings) that it rarely hurts to step up to the plate and take responsibility for things that simply could be your fault...but should be your responsibility. However, all around us, I see SO much effort spent rationalizing how to avoid responsibility. How can you be a responsible individual when 500 commercials a day tell you its always everyone's fault but your own.

The difference in attitude is striking.

Maybe my former job has given me a special irritation for responsibility avoidance...and generally churlish behavior. I think that I would have been mortified to have hooked up to a mooring, and then found it was someone else's property and that it broke while I was on it...mortified and absolutely responsible. I certainly wouldn't have wanted someone to take advantage of my responsible nature, but within reason I want to be the standup guy that steps up. I made a pretty good living being paid to shift responsibility where it didn't belong and hope that in my personal life I have tried to bend over backward in the other direction. As I have tried to explain to my kids...sometimes that may make you a shmuck. Sometimes it will cost you a few bucks that you could have otherwise invested in bacchanalia. But in exchange, you get both a sterling reputation and a sense of what it means to be honorable. And my actual experience has been that stepping up to the plate is cheaper in the long run...people don't expect it and tend to be pretty forgiving.

Just a rant...not directed at anyone in particular.

Thank you
 
Look, there is what one is required to do under the law,
and there is what one should do because it is just right. It is the difference between a legal choice and a moral choice. At the end if the day it is your choice. You either know the difference, or you don't.

So on that note, good night all. In 11 minutes it will be one day closer to boating season.

Henry
 
Apples and Oranges. Nievely, he thought it was public. There were zero markings on it. It went away during the storm. He notfied the people he thought owned it. Not a perfect scenario, but he's making good of it. He's asking our advice before proceeding. His intentions may not have been perfectly pure, but he didn't run away. Let's help him proceed appropriately.

If they hit your boat and sunk it before seeing the name, and then notified the Coast Guard, that would be a better analogy.


Well said. I liked Hampton's previous comment as well.

The OP notified the harbor master. He left *legitimate* contact information. What more was he supposed to do? what more could he have done? Finding out who owns the ball could be a bit challenging, no? Especially if there was no identifying markings and there are multiple mooring owners in the area. (Excuse me, did you lose a mooring ball?)

As for the replacment aspect. . .. yeah. . this is not a depreciating asset. It is not like a car or boat that has significant value. How is this differnt than shredding a mooring line? Or clipping a mailbox by backing into it. You bust someones mooring line. . .you replace it. Pure and simple.

Of course. . you just replace the morring line, and not the dock to which it was attached. That seems to be part of the question here. . . is the OP being asked to replace more than what he broke? I can't speak to that at all.
 
Scenario 1- You don’t pay for it under the following scenario:
You contacted the Harbor Master before tying up and they instructed you to tie up to a public mooring that was rated for your boat.

Scenario 2 – You do pay for it when:
You find an open mooring and assume that it is public, you don’t pay up front because “you plan on paying before you leave” (Yeah,, I know. The check is in the mail…). The mooring breaks because it was not rated for your boat.

In this scenario Not only should pay to have it replaced, but you should apologize AND PAY THE OWNER FOR THE INCONVENIENCE THAT YOU CAUSED HIM! I wonder what this poor guy had to go through to tie up his boat when he returned to the harbor and found his mooring gone?

Your comment “I did not break it, it failed” and “I will pay to replace the failed shackle” speaks about your character. I hope one day you and Wayne find yourself as dock buddies.


If the insurance company deems this to be a covered loss...they can negotiate, or pay the owner. If it is not a covered loss, I will call the owner and agree to pay a reasonable amount of money to replace the failed shackle.
 
Last edited:
Scenario 2 – You do pay for it when:
You find an open mooring and assume that it is public, you don’t pay up front because “you plan on paying before you leave” (Yeah,, I know. The check is in the mail…). The mooring breaks because it was not rated for your boat.

I believe there are now two questions on the table;

Question (1) Should he pay for the broken mooring?

Question (2) What do you do if you reach a harbor and there is no harbor master to be found?

As to question (1) - - - that has been addressed in a number of posts.

As to question (2) - - - that is interesting. In this case, the OP didn't contact the harbor master because the harbor master couldn't be found. If the harbor master leaves at 4:40pm and you show up at 5:15pm. . what do you do?

By the logic you present, that means that you should anchor out and NOT take the mooring, since you didn't pay in advance.

Is that the right answer?
 
I believe there are now two questions on the table;

Question (1) Should he pay for the broken mooring?

Question (2) What do you do if you reach a harbor and there is no harbor master to be found?

As to question (1) - - - that has been addressed in a number of posts.

As to question (2) - - - that is interesting. In this case, the OP didn't contact the harbor master because the harbor master couldn't be found. If the harbor master leaves at 4:40pm and you show up at 5:15pm. . what do you do?

By the logic you present, that means that you should anchor out and NOT take the mooring, since you didn't pay in advance.

Is that the right answer?

I believe I presented an answer to question 2 in my post # 53. To repeat: a) Use the mooring at your risk and responsibility, or b) go elsewhere.

If you wish to attach your boat to an unknown mooring, as in unknown condition, strength and capacity, and ownership, go ahead. But, YOU are responsible for the risk you are putting your vessel and passengers in, as well as any risk to the mooring tackle that belongs to someone other than you.

Personally, I wouldn't use an unknown mooring. Not because it isn't courteous, but because it is potentially unsafe.

Henry
 
Boy this has been a fun read but I do believe everthing that could be said has been said. How about we hear from the OP that he has meet the owner and paid the bill and everyone is the happier for it. :thumbsup:
 
Yep. This is like if i used your car or truck with 2.189823.00 mi's on it and the motor blew !!. Does this mean i owe you a BRAND NEW MOTOR.??. :grin:.
 
I tend to feel a conversation between the owner of the mooring and yourself is needed. The longer these things fester the more expensive they get. But, I would approach it with the attitude that I am paying this guy something. I tend to feel like some compensation is owed to what extent is hard to determine. I personally would probably pay the $750 and be done with it. The certified letter sounds like the first step in going to small claims court. Then you could get into temporary storage for the owner / rental fees you owe... Who knows what all could come up. I understand you thought it was a public mooring. Maybe a phone call with the harbormaster could give you a perspective on what is going on as well. The hassle of going to court could be more expensive in lost time at work/family/boat...
 
I'm sorry i just tell it like it is !!. Why sugar coat things??. The guy is trying to hose him for all BRAND NEW parts. Thats not right. :smt021. Up here you'd get your a$$ kicked for sending a bill like that.

....but you wouldn't get your ass kicked if you broke someone's mooring bouy and didn't fix it?

It costs what it cost to repair it. The OP is liable for the damage he's caused, pure and simple. Maybe, he wants to claim it on insurance, but my guess is the deductable is close or more than paying the guy.

Pay the guy to fix his bouy, don't tie up to bouy's you don't know who owns, learn how to anchor properly and don't pretend this is not your responsibilty.
 
Yep. This is like if i used your car or truck with 2.189823.00 mi's on it and the motor blew !!. Does this mean i owe you a BRAND NEW MOTOR.??. :grin:.

Actually, if you took a car without permission and blew up the engine, what you owed on the engine would be the least of your problems since stealing a car is a felony.
 
Remember it wasn't marked private or public ??. I'm with Eric on this one :smt001. I'd repair it !! but i wouldn't buy him all the new things he's asking for. :smt021
 
Pay the $750 and chalk it up to an expensive learning experience.

Didn't your insurance company just drop 40K on a new engine? I don't think I'd be calling them for this...
 
It's interesting that the question had to be asked at all. It is clear what the right thing to do is. I've encountered people who have used my slip at a public marina so they could shop. They expected me to wait for their wives to return before I could get back into my rented slip. I've had a person break off a spring pile while I was not home and stuck me with the $1200 to replace it. I've run into an individual who ruined a Friday night because he was in the slip I rented and would not move until the police threatened him. By that time my dinner reservation was missed. There is a small percentage of the general public who sees nothing wrong with using other people's stuff. They have little class in my view.
 
This topic has been hacked to death, but there is some vital local knowledge and background that might help some of you re-think your position.

1. There are no rental moorings in Old Harbor on Block Island. The only rental moorings on the island are in Great Salt Pond and these are clearly marked and either orange or green in color, depending on the capacity of the ground tackle.

2. Permits are required to set a private mooring and no private mooring owner has the right to rent out his mooring. Only the permit holders and their designated guests are allowed to use a private mooring.

3. Old Harbor is small. There is basically no room to anchor a 38 foot boat, given the mooring field and the ferry channel and docks. Some small boats do anchor for the day, but overnight anchoring is pretty much out of the question. The rules for the island in general are posted on the Harbor Master's website and prohibit anchoring within 100 feet of the commercial docks, within 50 feet of a private mooring or moored boat, or in navigation channels and fairways. I defy anyone to find a spot to anchor a 38 foot boat in Old Harbor while adhering to these rules.

Based on the two threads about this I would sum up by saying that the OP made a series of bad decisions/mistakes.

1. OP should never have picked Old Harbor as an overnight destination. The Coast Pilot, various commercial cruising guides and the BI Harbor Master's webpage all are pretty clear on this. Great Salt Pond is the only spot for vistiors to moor or anchor.
2. OP picked up a mooring of unknown (to him) capacity or condition. A call on the VHF would have helped him to know that there were no available moorings in Old Harbor and that the one he had his eye on was PRIVATE.
3. OP decided to set an anchor to suppliment the mooring due to weather conditions. This could have actually put additional strain on the mooring's ground tackle, leading to the failure. It is never advisable to set an anchor while attached to a mooring and specifically against regulations at Block Island and every other mooring field I know of.

I understand that given the several bad decsions already made, the OP used the mooring at his own risk. He is ethically obligated to repair or replace what he damaged to a condition as good or better than when he found it.
 
Are mooring balls depreciating assets? I know my dock wasn't... If a storm wiped it out, I got a new dock... not a used one. Most "dwelling" assets have replacement value on the insurance and are not like a car/boat.... Maybe when a hurricane hits Florida, we should get some "used" houses up north and just truck em in.

At the end of the day, YOU BROKE THE MOORING BALL. If you want to go back to Block Island and fix it yourself to put it back the way it was with your own contractors, GREAT! Otherwise, just send him the money and stop trying to convince the world you are being victimized! GOOD GRIEF!

Last year we had a tragic event in our family; my mother in law had a fire at her house. The home and contends where insured for replacement value. When the adjuster finished going through a fire gutted home they had made a complete inventory of all personal belongings. A check was then issued for the replacement value of all the contents minis deprecation. We were given a list of every item and told if we wanted to replace them we could at the market value of each and a check would then be issued for the difference.

The bottom line is if the items were not replaced we did not receive cash for the entire value of each item, but if they were replaced they would covered in full and would be replaced with new.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
112,950
Messages
1,422,861
Members
60,932
Latest member
juliediane
Back
Top