Mercury Marine and Unions

Four Suns said:
You think rope manufacturers should be held responsible for people hanging themselves? You think car manufacturers should be responsible for drunk drivers? How about people that overdose on sleeping pills? Is that the drug company's fault?

PS: I own a dodge truck... it's a big pile of crap.
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I know what your getting at, but I think your analogies are flat out wrong. Please rewrite comparing apples to apples.

...And get a real truck... like a ford
 
Mogut said:
I know what your getting at, but I think your analogies are flat out wrong. Please rewrite comparing apples to apples.

...And get a real truck... like a ford
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OK...

If you swallow a whole apple and it gets caught in your adams apple and you choke to death, is it the farmer's fault? If you were Adam and Eve and ate an apple you were not supposed to, is it God's fault? (they should have sued him)

I am going to get a real truck... A Toyota.
 
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Ford? Just stay away from their diesel engines from 2000 on and you'll be fine! I'd go Duramax! :thumbsup:

Gary has a Dodge!! Wow, that explains SO much! :grin::smt043
 
OK...this thread has officially been hijacked. My chevy has 427,000 on the original gasoline engine. If anybody can top that, feel free to post. Mercury Marine has their own problems.
 
Four Suns said:
OK...

If you swallow a whole apple and it gets caught in your adams apple and you choke to death, is it the farmer's fault? If you were Adam and Eve and ate an apple you were not supposed to, is it God's fault?

I am going to get a real truck... A Toyota.
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Toyota GREAT!!! assembled in San Antonio with 80% domestic content... good choice...

0 points for you and your analogies....
 
OK...

How about you go to McDonalds every day and eat apple pies and get fat and have a heart attack, is it McDonalds fault because they pressured you to buy them because they kept asking "would you like an apple pie with that quarter pounder with cheese meal?"
 
Oh jesus christ!!!

These creditors and mortgages handed out loans to 20 yr olds or anyone with a pulse.

Heres an analogy:

Its like handing out guns in divorce court... whos responsible? :smt043
 
Mogut said:
Oh jesus christ!!!

These creditors and mortgages handed out loans to 20 yr olds or anyone with a pulse.

Heres an analogy:

Handing out guns in divorce court... whos responsible? :smt043
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The person who pulls the trigger? No?

You mean the 20-year olds are not responsible for taking out the mortgages?
 
Four Suns said:
The person who pulls the trigger? No?

You mean the 20-year olds are not responsible for taking out the mortgages?
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In the end, the mortgage companies end up with the foreclosed property... no? Maybe a few applications could have been denied, ya think?
 
Unions are passé and are running into real trouble. In modern society, they are a superfluous model at best. UAW has the lowest membership demographics ever and it's only survival is to reach out to Nissan, Toyota and Honda. Under the current administration, they may be able to gain some ground, but they are also competing with a horrid economy. Which plants will be closed?..... Union of course, and tops officials from Japanese companies make no secret of this. Signing a union card these days is like shooting yourself in the foot.....

And yes... that is a decent analogy. : )

Mike
 
Mogut said:
Maybe a few applications could have been denied, ya think?
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Especially the ones that people lied about their income on....

I'm into the whole "personal choice and responsibility" thing. Sorta like the woman on TV this morning that they had asking a question at a town hall meeting... she said she was on welfare (looked to be early 20's) and had 4 young kids (looked to be all under 4 years old) hanging on her and was upset because one of her children died last year because medicaid would not give him the drugs he needed in time to live... so she wanted "health care reform." Didn't understand why people wanted her to suffer.

Now maybe I was born under a rock but...
 
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Four Suns said:
Especially the ones that people lied about their income on....
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I think the point is, it needed to be policed and that wasnt happening.

Mortgage is one topic, credit is even worse.

How about you? I hope your not a retiree? How is that pension funds holding up? Who's fault was that?
 
Sundancer said:
Ford? Just stay away from their diesel engines from 2000 on and you'll be fine! I'd go Duramax! :thumbsup:

Gary has a Dodge!! Wow, that explains SO much! :grin::smt043
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I've run diesels from chevy, under powered cheap pos (yep the duramax) and I used real world testing. I first had a dodge with a cummins, less than 10k miles (bought new), hooked up to a horse trailer headed up a hill and tore the rear end off. Yes you read that correctly. Prior to this problem, it would not tow the trailer more than 50 mph uphill when loaded. Used a chevy with a duramax to get home, would not tow the same trailer up a hill more than 30 mph. Got smart, bought a Ford with a 6 liter. Hauls the same trailer uphill at 65 mph (if I want). Put several hundred thousand miles on that truck, bought another, works just as well. The only other truck that I would consider is a medium duty hauler, and not one made by chevy.

Also, if you do your research you will see that unionized labor in the US, is far less productive, has higher costs and the employee actually takes home less money. Unions had their place in our history. They are no longer needed, nor do they provide the employees with any type of benefit.
 
Southpaw II said:
I've worked in 6 different union environments in the last 30 years, and have seen the progression from the "us vs. them" to what it is now...only a left over useless institution. Most agree that unions once had a place and function, about 50 years ago. Today, they are a farce that suck dollars from earnings sorely needed by families. The Feds have put laws in place that weren't there years ago. The unions aren't needed. IMHO, people that keep voting the unions in deserve just what they voted for...just like those that voted in the last Presidential election. Hope this doesn't offend, but to me the question and the answer are pretty simple. If you don't want to work there, leave, and go somewhere else.
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I like you answer, and it just evades me all of this hyperbole about US Automakers and Foreign manufactures. Just guessing, but I would say the foreign manufacturers have more plants in the USA and employ more people. Toyota typically strives for the use of 80% of their materials to come from the US. Honda, BMW and I believe Hyundai and Mercedes also have plants here. Oh and the parts they use also come from USA parts supplier.

So just what is a US Auto Maker, GovMint-Motors, Ford and Cry-sler have been moving their manufacturing out of the country while, gulp, those damn foreign auto makers have built plants in the USA. I suppose that is where all of the "Illegal Aliens " are working?

I drive a Toyota Truck and a Corvette.

:thumbsup:
 
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Mogut said:
I think the point is, it needed to be policed and that wasnt happening.

Mortgage is one topic, credit is even worse.

How about you? I hope your not a retiree? How is that pension funds holding up? Who's fault was that?
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Ah yes... the government should protect people from themselves...

Many of my investments tanked (like the rest of the world's)... and it's my fault... my fault for trusting people to only borrow what they can pay back and to pay back what they owe.
 
Four Suns said:
Ah yes... the government should protect people from themselves..
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Yes they should. Because now its people like you and me you who feel the consequences, not the irresponsible borrowers, they get off debt-free, meanwhile killing the market. Im stuck with 2 houses myself in this crap market (one of which i HAVE to live in, which is not favorable for me) and you think mortgage and creditors should still operate by trusting borrowers without regulation?
 
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It's the Governments Fault, It's their fault for forcing Banks to lend money to people that didn't qualify, it's their fault for guaranteeing those loans for people that didn't qualify, and it's their fault for bailing them out. If the government never got involved, banks would have had to manage their own risk and none of this would have happened.

As far a timing the markets and protecting myself, I just do the opposite of what my UPS guy does. If he's buying stocks, I'm selling. If he's investing in Real estate, I'm not. If he's foreclosing on his "homes", well, I always wanted to have a place in Florida.
 
Back to Mercury and the Union.

The union may feel that they didn't get a fair shake from Mercury but to say they won't bend at all makes no sense with the loss of their jobs being the end result. In the end they all deserve what it is coming to them and that is unemployment. It was their choice to make and essentially they voted their jobs out of existence. Pretty stupid if you ask me in todays economy especially as long as Mercury had the Stillwater trump card in their back pocket.

But Mercury has given them a second chance according to the latest news story "Company officials have said they would keep the jobs in Fond du Lac, if the union accepts it contract proposal before Saturday at midnight." Let's see if they are smart enough to say yes to the contract this time.





Dave
 
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