Having trouble understanding current events

alnav said:
As you've probably seen in the press, there are several levels of classification. The documents that are Confidential might well be questionable as to whether they needed to be classified; sometimes the system errs on the side of protecting at that level. But, above that, the classification markings are without doubt there because they reflect the damage that will occur to national security that will happen if they are disclosed. Disclosure could happen if they were mishandled or randomly declassified for convenience, so either scenario is equally bad. On the other hand, we really don't know the breadth and depth of what is in the documents and probably won't in our lifetimes. If they are focused on one particular subject area it would be one thing, still likely serious. If they span across broad range of subjects, much more serious.
I don't think anyone who has not been cleared and had access at TS and above can appreciate the care with which these documents are usually protected and the types of information they contain. I'm guessing you won't take my word for it but the seizure really had to happen. The proven existence of a cache of a large number of classified documents couldn't be ignored.
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I call Bull crap. I'll bet money they are nothing other than embarsasements to government officials.
 
Iprof said:
I posted the link that showed Trump had classified material.
So you agree Trump took the classified material, you believe he was allowed too because he was President but once he was no longer President he was not entitled to have that material.
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I believe this is all a mountain made out of a mole hill. They are simply after Trump. If it was that egrigous and detrimental, then indicte him already. It's all BS. Open your eyes.
 
Iprof said:
See you're a Trumptard we get that, trouble understanding. A President can declassify material but there needs to be a paper trail showing which documents have been declassified, Trump didn't do this. His defense has no documentation to prove his case. It's just another screw up by the worse President in history.
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Says who? He can declasify things on the fly, such as when he is in a meeting with foriegn powers.
 
Golfman25 said:
I believe this is all a mountain made out of a mole hill. They are simply after Trump. If it was that egrigous and detrimental, then indicte him already. It's all BS. Open your eyes.
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Agree. Let’s indict him and let the chips fall.
 
Golfman25 said:
I believe this is all a mountain made out of a mole hill. They are simply after Trump. If it was that egrigous and detrimental, then indicte him already. It's all BS. Open your eyes.
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It not only egrigous, it’s egregious.
 
Iprof said:
See you're a Trumptard we get that, trouble understanding. A President can declassify material but there needs to be a paper trail showing which documents have been declassified, Trump didn't do this. His defense has no documentation to prove his case. It's just another screw up by the worse President in history.
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More importantly, de-classifying a document means you de-classify the underlying methods and sources. And in those cases the agency that creates the classified document has to be notified of the change in classification so as to shield said methods and sources.
 
Cdillerud said:
Agree. Let’s indict him and let the chips fall.
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I hope not, the best thing that could happen for the country is for Biden to tell everyone to back off of Trump. That is, as long as this is just about record retention/possession. Otherwise all we will have is each party trying to 'get' the other each time they are in power. They already can't work together well enough, this constant investigation BS has to stop.
 
Iprof said:
See you're a Trumptard we get that, trouble understanding. A President can declassify material but there needs to be a paper trail showing which documents have been declassified, Trump didn't do this. His defense has no documentation to prove his case. It's just another screw up by the worse President in history.
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Again, just who is this entity that has power over a President to dictate how that President can classify, declassify, and can force him to create a paper trail that satisfies that power?

This must be a really hard question because I have asked it many times and I get no answer to it…
 
MonacoMike said:
Again, just who is this entity that has power over a President to dictate how that President can classify, declassify, and can force him to create a paper trail that satisfies that power?

This must be a really hard question because I have asked it many times and I get no answer to it…
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That’s kind of the problem. DC is all focused on “the process.” Which is why things never get done. Guys like Trump are looking for results and say “f the process” and just do it. It drives political elites crazy.
 
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Woody said:
I hope not, the best thing that could happen for the country is for Biden to tell everyone to back off of Trump. That is, as long as this is just about record retention/possession. Otherwise all we will have is each party trying to 'get' the other each time they are in power. They already can't work together well enough, this constant investigation BS has to stop.
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MonacoMike said:
Again, just who is this entity that has power over a President to dictate how that President can classify, declassify, and can force him to create a paper trail that satisfies that power?

This must be a really hard question because I have asked it many times and I get no answer to it…
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We are going to find out I court, I’m sure.

Verbal de-classification historically does not suffice. There has to be written memo to the appropriate agency that created the classified documents. They respond with their concerns/input and the president can then make the final call on de-classifying. That’s the “paper trail” sane presidents have always created. Obviously this guy thought he was above all that or simply didn’t understand it.

It’s funny that you law and order guys think it’s neat that FPOTUS flaunts the laws and requirements of government.
 
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Cdillerud said:
We are going to find out I court, I’m sure.

Verbal de-classification historically does not suffice. There has to be written memo to the appropriate agency that created the classified documents. They respond with their concerns/input and the president can then make the final call on de-classifying. That’s the “paper trail” sane presidents have always used. Obviously this guy thought he was above all that or simply didn’t understand it.

It’s funny that you law and order guys think it’s neat that FPOTUS flaunts the laws and requirements of government.
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Again, who has the constitutional authority to to impose the procedure you outline? You think you have all the answers with the PRA. Who is it?

What are the penalties in law that are imposed by that power?

What is funny is hypocrites that never said a word about this situation for any previous President…
 
MonacoMike said:
Again, who has the constitutional authority to to impose the procedure you outline? You think you have all the answers with the PRA. Who is it?

What are the penalties in law that are imposed by that power?

What is funny is hypocrites that never said a word about this situation for any previous President…
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So you think any previous president flaunted national security procedures in the same way? I highly doubt it.

regardless, he broke the law by possessing the documents post presidency. Whether or not he magically declassified then without notifying a single soul is going to be an additional drama that plays out, I’m sure.
 
MonacoMike said:
Again, just who is this entity that has power over a President to dictate how that President can classify, declassify, and can force him to create a paper trail that satisfies that power?

This must be a really hard question because I have asked it many times and I get no answer to it…
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See Executive Order 13526 and 18USC793. They are the derivative executive branch document and law regarding classification, declassification and safeguarding classified information. You would think that a President would either respect his own process but I guess it's "Rules for thee and not for me."
 
MonacoMike said:
Who has the constitutional authority over this even if the documents are national security?
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By your argument, any president can do anything he wants with regard to national security documents? Like…sell them to Saudi Arabia? You don’t think the espionage act would make that illegal?? Does the constitution give him the power to do that?
 
Golfman25 said:
I call Bull crap. I'll bet money they are nothing other than embarsasements to government officials.
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Maybe there is some embarrassing information but that isn't the point. By definition, the markings on the TS documents indicate their disclosure could cause exceptionally grave damage to National Security. Are you OK with that?
 
alnav said:
See Executive Order 13526 and 18USC793. They are the derivative executive branch document and law regarding classification, declassification and safeguarding classified information. You would think that a President would either respect his own process but I guess it's "Rules for thee and not for me."
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SCOTUS has already had rulings on this topic.


“The Supreme Court confirmed as much in its 1988 ruling in Department of Navy v. Egan.”

"[The president's] authority to classify and control access to information bearing on national security … flows primarily from this constitutional investment of power in the president and exists quite apart from any explicit congressional grant," the court said.”
 
Cdillerud said:
By your argument, any president can do anything he wants with regard to national security documents? Like…sell them to Saudi Arabia? You don’t think the espionage act would make that illegal?? Does the constitution give him the power to do that?
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Yes the President can do anything with regard to national security documents. The constitution lays out the responses to executives that are traitors or guilty of high crimes and misdemeanors…

Maybe they should impeach him again?
 
alnav said:
See Executive Order 13526 and 18USC793. They are the derivative executive branch document and law regarding classification, declassification and safeguarding classified information. You would think that a President would either respect his own process but I guess it's "Rules for thee and not for me."
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This?


Executive Order 13526
As president, Trump has the legal power to declassify information. He also has the authority to share information with whomever he wants, including foreign adversaries.

“Trump is protected under an executive order that was signed by Barack Obama in 2009 establishing a uniform system for "classifying, safeguarding and declassifying national security information."

“The order allows the president to determine the system of designating classified information, and he is the ultimate authority over U.S. intelligence agencies, which gather and classify the information.”
 
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