In the market for a >30 foot Searay Sundancer, probably years 2010-2014. Hoping there will be fewer things that go wrong with a newer boat. Im reasonably handy and can change oil, air filter, and other minor items for the car. But I usually pay a mechanic to do the more heavy duty stuff. What skills should I learn before I purchased my first boat?
RutgersAl
How to keep your cool and never yell at your wife!
There is a corollary to this one ........there is very little that happens on a boat that you need to hurry up to fix, if you plan ahead and anticipate, you should never need to raise your voice in giving instruction to whoever is helping you with lines on the bow. Trust me...it is a lot more fun that way!
There is a corollary to this one ........there is very little that happens on a boat that you need to hurry up to fix, if you plan ahead and anticipate, you should never need to raise your voice in giving instruction to whoever is helping you with lines on the bow. Trust me...it is a lot more fun that way!
Rule of thumb maintenance is 10% of purchase price. It will be lower some years; but big ticket items will pop up. The best skill I find is not be shocked when you put in $500 worth of fuel or have a nervous breakdown when you pay your yearly moorage fee. Seriously first skill is for you, and if you have others that will drive the boat to all take a boating courses on navigation and handling. If you are at a marina that allows people to work on their boats a few beers will get you a lot of advice.
Al, welcome to CSR. You didn't complete your profile info so I don't know where you live and will be boating. I'd suggest finding a boating safety course in your area where you can take the course in a classroom setting.
The online courses are OK, but the exchange of information you will pick up in a classroom is invaluable. Your wife should take it with you for two reasons:
-you both will hear and pick up some different things during the discussions and you can talk about those later.
-she will know what you are talking about when you ask her (as opposed to "TELL HER") to do something on the boat like putting fenders or dock lines out.
A third thing you pick up from both of you taking the class together is that both of you will increase your confidence level and your level of competence.
Then go have fun!
By way of a P.S., I've taken boating safety courses five times and I always pick up something from the classes.
The online courses are OK, but the exchange of information you will pick up in a classroom is invaluable. Your wife should take it with you for two reasons:
-you both will hear and pick up some different things during the discussions and you can talk about those later.
-she will know what you are talking about when you ask her (as opposed to "TELL HER") to do something on the boat like putting fenders or dock lines out.
A third thing you pick up from both of you taking the class together is that both of you will increase your confidence level and your level of competence.
Then go have fun!
By way of a P.S., I've taken boating safety courses five times and I always pick up something from the classes.
O.P. You didn't mention if this was your first larger boat. If it is, one of the best investments you can make, is to hire a captain for a day, and let her show you how to dock, anchor, use the radio, deal with emergencies, etc. And as @Gofirstclass mentioned, make sure your first mate is along for the ride.
I agree with gofirstclass.
My wife and I took the Power Squadron course which I loved.
My wife not so much.
My wife and I took the Power Squadron course which I loved.
My wife not so much.
It's a bigger boat to start out with. Maybe try something around 20 feet for a year to see if you even enjoy boating. Everything is more expensive with a bigger boat including the damage when you screw up. Definitely take some courses and get training before you write the check. Operating a boat is not driving a car. There are more requirements for safe operation, more systems to understand and maintain and there are hazards that you never encounter in a car. Hire someone to give you the benefit of their training and experience once you buy your boat. Learning through trial and error is not a good idea.
While the logic of a "newer boat" and "fewer problems" might make sense at face value, in reality all boats break at some point.
So I guess step #1: Once you find the boat you like that passes a survey, don't be discouraged if a problem pops up after a month of usage. We've all been there, and it's part of boat ownership.
As for things to learn:
* Do you know how to use a fire extinguisher? If not, practice.
* Since you're handy, do a search and learn what experienced mariners carry for spare parts. This can make the difference between aborting a trip, or only having a 30 minute delay. (It's a good idea to carry these things regardless of your mechanical skill level.)
* Navigation and rules of the road.
* Learn about weather patterns where you'll be boating.
* Become incredibly familiar with all emergency equipment and how it should be stored.
I've been boating since I was a little kid, and I learn new things on every voyage.
So I guess step #1: Once you find the boat you like that passes a survey, don't be discouraged if a problem pops up after a month of usage. We've all been there, and it's part of boat ownership.
As for things to learn:
* Do you know how to use a fire extinguisher? If not, practice.
* Since you're handy, do a search and learn what experienced mariners carry for spare parts. This can make the difference between aborting a trip, or only having a 30 minute delay. (It's a good idea to carry these things regardless of your mechanical skill level.)
* Navigation and rules of the road.
* Learn about weather patterns where you'll be boating.
* Become incredibly familiar with all emergency equipment and how it should be stored.
I've been boating since I was a little kid, and I learn new things on every voyage.
All great post above.
Do the same routine every time this includes pre safety checks, leaving / coming back to the dock, pump out, washing, maintenance... etc.
Dont be in a hurry!
Also involve your boating partner in all aspects of running and maintenance of the boat the more you learn together the better you will enjoy being a boater. ( other than the cost for those electronics or stereo upgrade)
somethings just dont need to be discussed.
Do the same routine every time this includes pre safety checks, leaving / coming back to the dock, pump out, washing, maintenance... etc.
Dont be in a hurry!
Also involve your boating partner in all aspects of running and maintenance of the boat the more you learn together the better you will enjoy being a boater. ( other than the cost for those electronics or stereo upgrade)
somethings just dont need to be discussed.
Never approach anything faster than you are willing to hit it... Then go find some empty slips someplace, rig both sides, practice, practice, and then practice some more.
You asked what skills you need to learn before purchasing a boat. If you are smart and careful in general, you will learn as you go. The important thing is to understand what you don't know and work with in your limits. I knew nothing of boats 25 years ago when I bought my first 28 foot twin engine Sundancer. I took it slow and boated with friends who were experienced and took a Coast Guard Auxiliary boating safety class. I did all my own MX but always researched and sought out knowledge before I waded in over my head on repairs and servicing the boat. I've learned so much over the years and made a few blunders but I've saved tens of thousands of dollars doing my own servicing and in general enjoyed every minute. You will find most of the help you need right here on CSR. Happy hunting
Carpe Diem
Carpe Diem
@RutgersAl In hindsight, I should have asked your same question when I bought my first boat, had I followed the advice shared by other's here it would have been much less stressful and dangerous; kudos to you!!
I moved from a small bow rider to a 260 Sundancer this spring, I'm happy, would not go back to a smaller bow rider as they don't fit my goal (LOL, nearly sank the bow rider, my fault!). It was an adjustment, I've heard it said that every boat design is a compromise, here are a few things I've experienced, this may be long, not whining, just my experience and meant to be helpful.
-Michael
I moved from a small bow rider to a 260 Sundancer this spring, I'm happy, would not go back to a smaller bow rider as they don't fit my goal (LOL, nearly sank the bow rider, my fault!). It was an adjustment, I've heard it said that every boat design is a compromise, here are a few things I've experienced, this may be long, not whining, just my experience and meant to be helpful.
- I'll echo what others said about taking it slow when piloting as you build your confidence. If your family, friends, other boaters around you are in a hurry, that's their problem.
- Buy one with working A/C (heat if desired). Installing it afterwards is crazy expensive and will likely uncover lots of other expenses. Your family / friends will never complain about having A/C and just knowing it's there to use makes the day more enjoyable!
- The Sundancer Helm seating is great, till the captain needs to get around quickly. I think it improves the bigger the Sundancer, but to me it's like flying a plane from the window seat, great view but there's only one way out of the seating area and if someone is next to you, it's a pain. Even if no one is there the one way option frustrates me.
- I'm nearly finished replacing my bench style helm with two captain style seats, on shock absorbing pedestals that adjust for height, forward/back, and spin 360. The admiral and I can sit at individual heights, I'll be able to exit the seat to the right or left, sit down and see well, or raise the seat / lean against it like a post style when piloting. Making the change has been more work than I anticipated, but will be worth it.
- Use non-slip shoes and practice getting yourself / others out to the bow, e.g. to shake a stuck anchor loose from the bow roller, move fenders, push away from something (get the longest boat pole hook you can store at quick reach for use).
- Balancing out on the bow can be challenging, barefoot on mine would result in instant overboard!
- I keep a 2nd anchor at the stern for quick use when the the primary sticks.
- Use a launch / end of trip checklist; there's much to remember and easy to overlook things, and lots more to do if you're trailering vs. wet / dry docking. If trailering, this guy has a good system of using "remove before flight" flags at 9 checkpoints with a 30' Sundancer, I plan to replicate his system;
- I trailer, would not recommend it, a lot of extra work and adds 1-2 hours to each trip, and then there's always drama at the ramp. Although, if your not going boating it's fun to watch the drama between 4-6 pm! After a few experiences at the ramp I no longer arrive back between 4-6, too dangerous (lots of hot, tired, half drunk people). Then there's the trailer and truck maintenance, yep, more stuff to break. I'm now on three waiting lists for marina space.
- Add a small flag or piece of sail cloth at the tip of the bow rail to judge the wind. That high, bow gets pushed around quickly, a quick look at the flag gives you an idea what to expect.
- Test out a few mechanics with small jobs first to get a feel for how they run their business, e.g. how quickly can you get an appointment and what's the process like; how do they handle questions, do they use good quality parts; do they stand behind their work / fix stuff quickly if it wasn't right, do they return your boat washed or dirtier than you brought it? I've been working on cars, trucks, motorcycles, a few planes, a long time, I find boats to be the most frustrating to work on, not designed for easy access for repairs and the part costs are ridiculous, I know they're "marinized" parts, still ridiculous. If doing your own maintenance, a chiropractor / masseuse is helpful.
- With mechanics, I hope you're experience is better than mine, which is they get the work done but customer service sucks, don't expect them to make deadlines they agree to; in my area, boats with outboards seem to get priority.
- Build a strong tolerance for price shock for repairs, and for finding additional work when fixing the primary issue. I'm not complaining, it comes with the hobby, and that's what it is for me, an expensive, fun hobby.
-Michael
This is the most important rule... Keep calm... Bad things with happen, and it is never the First Mate or Crew's fault... The Captain takes all the blame... The Captain pays for the gas. The Captain set the rules... Don't take your boat when it is windy. Bring experienced boat with you and let them help you. When you run aground, stay calm and wait for help... As far as fixing your boat, you will have time to figure that out... just don't piss the wife off...
- Learn to tie a bowline knot. Practice until you can do it without thinking. Being able to quickly put a secure loop in a line is an extremely handy skill on a boat.
- Learn to read charts, and study them before you go anywhere you've never gone before. Know your exact route before you leave the dock.
- I keep a copy of Chapman's Guide to Seamanship on board. It is an invaluable resource for whenever I have a question I need an answer to.
Good advice above. Read what you can on seamanship. There are several volumes online, some are free pdf copies. The bottom line is this: a true seaman never becomes obsessed with what he’ll do when something goes wrong. He has foreseen the possibility already and has made certain that it will not happen.
1. Keep a clean bilge. Helps with easy diagnosis.
2. Keep up with maintenance. Boats aren't like cars... When something breaks, it's not like you can pull over to the side of the road. Try to be proactive.
3. Definitely practice docking in varying conditions.
4. Develop some base rules for your family and guests when on board ie no distractions during docking, nothing down the head that didn't go in your body, life jacket locations, etc.
5. Make sure you have all your safety gear on board in case you're boarded by USCG.
6. Get Boat US or Seatow coverage. Cheap insurance for a tow.
7. Learn how to use a VHF radio.
8. Train someone else in your crew to operate your boat in case you get hurt and are unable.
9. If you get a gas boat, make sure you know how to use the blower before starting the engines. Seems simple yet many explosions occur every year.
10. Enjoy!
2. Keep up with maintenance. Boats aren't like cars... When something breaks, it's not like you can pull over to the side of the road. Try to be proactive.
3. Definitely practice docking in varying conditions.
4. Develop some base rules for your family and guests when on board ie no distractions during docking, nothing down the head that didn't go in your body, life jacket locations, etc.
5. Make sure you have all your safety gear on board in case you're boarded by USCG.
6. Get Boat US or Seatow coverage. Cheap insurance for a tow.
7. Learn how to use a VHF radio.
8. Train someone else in your crew to operate your boat in case you get hurt and are unable.
9. If you get a gas boat, make sure you know how to use the blower before starting the engines. Seems simple yet many explosions occur every year.
10. Enjoy!
On one trip to Alaska we were at the north end of Vancouver Island. A raw water pump had failed. I was about to order a replacement. There was a a very large private boat beside us. It had a helicopter on it. The chief was a retired US Navy. He asked what I was doing and could he help. Told him a raw water pump had failed and I was going to order a replacement. His advice was to order two, put new ones on both engines an keep the old good one as a spare. He also said every time you replace an item order two and keep one as a spare. I have a lot of spare and some times I get to use them. A tow to a port would probably cost more than all the parts we have. If you can do the work order the spares if not you can do as one elderly couple we met in a 65 foot concerted wood tug said when I asked what he carried for spares. He showed me his cell phone.
Great advice. I would add, even if you can't do the work its a good idea to have spare consumables on board. If you need to have a repair done away from home port, finding a mechanic is one thing, finding the parts on short notice is another not to mention the savings in markup.
Carpe Diem
Carpe Diem
Probably not the first to mention it but..... never feel you have to get out on the water. Some days it’s either just too windy or to unsettled weather wise....pay attention to forecasts and don’t be compelled to leave the dock. Sometimes the best command decision is to stay put!
Lots of videos ... check out Bonehead Boaters... to learn from as well.
Lots of videos ... check out Bonehead Boaters... to learn from as well.
100 % on maintenance log and spair parts. I keep great records on all the maintenance i do. I spend atleast a couple hours a week doing preventive maintenance on her. Saves in the long run. Why wait till it breaks to fix it when you can schedual the fix now. I also keep a great supply of extra parts onboard. Props, fuel pumps belts etc. I can almost always fix something on the fly and not have to wait for parts to arrive. Our boating season in new jersey is short enough so why wait for parts
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