You will want a sub in the main cabin; bridge channels 5 and 6 for that.
I think the two zones in the cockpit is a good idea so you can tailor the sound and volume between behind and at the helm.
Remotes, wifi, or Bluetooth via smart phone?

 

I think full range is good enough in the cabin. Usually this is background music, no high volume level in there. But if I have to upgrade the cockpit sub (The Apollo Amp is 2X the power its rated for) that would be a good place to repurpose it!

One other option on the spare channel would be speakers on the foredeck or aft facing onto the swim platform.

I usually run Spotify and control from my iPad/phone/Smart watch, but also have a couple of the ANT remotes running around. Might have to add a few more. Good enough for tyweeking the volume or a song choice.

I considered putting the stero

 

Before you button up this system, I would consider a different configuration.

Put the 4 arch speakers and the 2 floor speakers all on the same zone. As it is, you will likely find that the arch speakers dominate due to their positional advantage. If you turn them down for this reason, you will also be turning down the woofer. Put them all on the same zone, then gain-balance between the arch speakers with the floor speakers. Now, when you turn them up or down, the woofer's ratio to all 6, stays they same.

Are the v-birth and cabin pairs that far apart that it justifies each pair on their own zone? If one zone would work, then id do this;

Use that remaining zone for you woofer, rather then dedicated zone-1 woofer output. This makes the woofer is own independent zone thats only tied to the master volume v's tied to the zone-1 level first. This allows you to add a little more or less woofer, regardless of zone-1's level.

 

Before you button up this system, I would consider a different configuration.

Put the 4 arch speakers and the 2 floor speakers all on the same zone. As it is, you will likely find that the arch speakers dominate due to their positional advantage. If you turn them down for this reason, you will also be turning down the woofer. Put them all on the same zone, then gain-balance between the arch speakers with the floor speakers. Now, when you turn them up or down, the woofer's ratio to all 6, stays they same.

Are the v-birth and cabin pairs that far apart that it justifies each pair on their own zone? If one zone would work, then id do this;

Use that remaining zone for you woofer, rather then dedicated zone-1 woofer output. This makes the woofer is own independent zone thats only tied to the master volume v's tied to the zone-1 level first. This allows you to add a little more or less woofer, regardless of zone-1's level.

@Wylie_Tunes I was hoping you would chime in.


The Subwoofer control on the Apollo head unit is pretty good, so I'd prefer to use the dedicated Zone 1 subwoofer output. Otherwise doing as you suggest, I'd have 6 speakers and a Subwoofer in the cockpit as Zone 1 with a substantial increase in available power/wattage and speaker area. The 2 foot level speaker would be @4 Ohm, the 4 arch speakers @ 2 Ohm, and the Sub would be bridged (check my math!!).

Edited: Corrected wiring and how speaker power calculated.

2x @ 150W each at foot level
4x @ 145W each in the Arch
1x Sub woofer @580W

The cabin and V-Berth are separated by a wall and hard door but they could remain the same zone (Zone 2), and again they don't need much. If I do that...That would leave me 4 open channels on the existing JL Audio M600 for a possible future Zone 3, maybe a nice set of speakers in the trunk facing back off the swim platform. Bridge those channels and I'd have 2x 180W available.

Fusion Apollo Amp Power Specs

 

The zone configuration would not need to change how any speaker outputs are wired, its simply the input configuration. So you could wire a pair of cabin to chnl 1 and a pair to chnl 2 and wire each to their own chnl using 1-4.

The cool thing about my suggested configuration, it does not require any speaker rewiring. It only involves moving some RCA at the back of the head unit or setting in the DSP app.

 

The zone configuration would not need to change how any speaker outputs are wired, its simply the input configuration. So you could wire a pair of cabin to chnl 1 and a pair to chnl 2 and wire each to their own chnl using 1-4.

The cool thing about my suggested configuration, it does not require any speaker rewiring. It only involves moving some RCA at the back of the head unit or setting in the DSP app.

Considering a complete rewire of everything. Existing speaker wire is corroded up under the insulation as far as I can trace it and the power wire was set up for much smaller amps. I already pulled new RCA cables able to accomodate all 4 zones with a L/R/Sub and a couple spares.

The factory power wire for the old Clarion APA4204 (4x 50W) was #8, and that was downstream from the main distribution panel which which was supposed to be #2 from the main engine room breaker. Even moving the amps closer to the batteries is going to take some much bigger wire.

 

Yep.

 

I would consider another sub….. I have one at the helm under the captains chair and one in the back….. you paid for it…. Mine as well enjoy it while underway

 

Looking at moving to a 12" much more powerful version. Not sure I want to cut a bunch more holes in every flat panel of the boat. But for now baby steps.

 

Two 10" woofers would have a greater surface area compared to a single 12", so this = more moved air. However, a 12" can yield a deeper bass extension then a 10".

In an open floor plan boat, the single larger woofer typically wins. In a larger boat with separated listening areas, 2 woofers, regardless of size, may be best. The seating arrangement can create geographical sound barriers. So a single woofer placed here, may not be heard well, to those seated over there, regardless of size.

 

After everybodys input and a little more thought. I think I have an upgrade plan. Going to do it in steps.

Step 1

- Add a 4 Channel Apollo amp Got a deal on an open box Score!
- Relocate cockpit amps to area beside helm (keep wire shorter).
- Upgrade wiring to accommodate bigger amps (working out mounting/wiring/fusing next)
- Upgrade speakers Considering Fusion Signature 3 8.8's, 7.7's in that order. The older Signature 3 (Not 3i's) are on sale, look the same spec wise and look good. Just have to make sure they fit (or can be stuffed in).

Step 2

Add a Separate Fusion Mono Block and a second 10" sub both under the starboard side of the U lounge.

 

Question on wiring

Is it acceptable to draw the power off of the power solenoids instead of direct to the batteries? All wiring from the batteries to the solenoids is 4/0 (and pretty short). This would turn the stereo system off when I shut the boat down. This is similar to how the current amp/stereo are wired in the cabin.

 

Is there a separate power for the memory? I think there is a separate circuit breaker on the unswitched section of the panel. For the power side of things it's perfectly acceptable to tap into the switched side of the solenoids. You will see significant voltage drop when cranking the engines so probably best to have the stereo system off when cranking.

 

The MS-RA770 does not need a constant for memory. IIRC, it has non-volatile memory. While the yellow is the circuit that the 770 draws its operating current on, its ok to have it run through the main battery switch.

 

Is there a separate power for the memory? ...

The RA770 has non-volatile memory as @Wylie_Tunes mentioned. But the Red and Yellow in this case should be tied together and on a breaker.

 

I was more poking at where he is powering the RA770 from - the old memory circuit or the old stereo power circuit.
In my case I have the RA770 red and yellow wires tied together.
BTW, not to derail but have you seen anything like this? It is getting worse but doesn't seem to affect the touch-screen. When the unit first powers on the lines are across the entire screen then reduce to this. I usually operate the unit from the MFD's or my smartphone but still this is bothersome.

 

... BTW, not to derail but have you seen anything like this? It is getting worse but doesn't seem to affect the touch-screen. When the unit first powers on the lines are across the entire screen then reduce to this. I usually operate the unit from the MFD's or my smartphone but still this is bothersome.
View attachment 144003

Unfortunately yes, the screen is de-laminating and needs to be replaced. The driver contacts are lifting. I would contact Fusion/Garmin and see what they say.

On a side note, if you need to get a new head unit, take a look at this "hide-away" one: https://www.garmin.com/en-US/p/832012#specs

 

I moved the RA-MA770 to the helm and rewired it with the rest of the dash a couple years ago. It is wired on its own switch (along with a few other items) and fuse on the dash. The red and yellow are wired together.

The current JL Audio amp is still behind the settee, and it is wired on the Entertainment Center 20A CB and the original #8 wire.

The plan is to leave a smaller amp on the original wiring behind the settee to power the galley and v-berth speakers, and move the cockpit amps to the area next to the helm and run appropriate power to that location from the main battery solenoid.

 

So I did a temporary install of the 4 Ch Fusion Amp today do get a little experience with the DSP settings. I'm very impressed. Wired it up, selected the components from the list on the amp, and in about an hour had a very nice sounding system with the existing speakers. It will go to full volume with out any discernable distortion, so the Fusion guys did a pretty good job setting the tune on this. Selecting a different speaker in the Fusion Link App significantly changes the sound.

This is what I ender up with today.

Zone 1 is the the Cockpit
- 4 x MS-FR6022 (45W RMS)6" speakers wire in parallel on Zone 1 of the amp
- 1x JL Audio M10 10" Sub wired in a bridged confi\g, from Zone 2 of the amp

Zone 3 is the galley
- 2 x Sea Ray specials

Zone 4 is the V- berth
- 2 x Sea Ray specials

 

I ordered 2 set of Fusion 8.8's today. They are the 2020 models, but I cant see any difference in specs, so I think they will be a much nice speaker. Less than $200/pair as opposed to $600 for the latest models. They cant sound that much better??

The current set up leaves me an open Zone on the head unit, and with the addition of a sub amp, the ability to power 8 speakers, and 2 10" subs.

Need to decide what makes the best sense location wise for the main speakers. I'll have 4x 6" and 4x 8.8". Do I put the 8.8's up high in the arch, or down lower at foot level? Having them in the arch will obviously be louder, but it might make sense that keep both sets of the 6" in the arch and put the 8.8 down low to give "fill" to the area?

Recommendations?

 

After a lot of measuring and re-measuring to see what speakers will fit where, I think I've settled on sizes and locations. 410 is tight when it comes to bigger/more speaker. The arch speakers were limited on the depth of speaker unless I wanted to go with very deep trim ring (needed 1-3/4" for the 8.8's and I thought that wouldn't look good, and it would interfere with the TV on the port side).

Once set up, I should have 4x 140W to the 7.7's and 2x 150 to the 8.8's Hopefully, this will produce a better fuller sound at a lower volume whne wanting to chill, and add a lot more volume when running at speed.

So for the Arch and lower fronts, I'll be using Fusion Signature 3 7.7's Arch mount will require a 3/4" trim ring

Arch 7.7's

Lower Helm Old

Lower Helm New 7.7

Trim Panel Old 6"

Trim Panel New 7.7"

Adding a second zone in the back of the lounge area by adding 2x Fusion Signature 3 8.8's. Going to have to move or redo the lighting (it sucks anyway)

 

Starting to get the pcs and parts in to do the upgrade, specifically upgrading the power to the new amps.

I’m running 2/0 from the main solenoids to the area beside the helm. It’s about 15’ each way. Problem was finding a distribution block to accept 2/0, but found a nice reducer that will lock in.

I’ll run #4 from the blocks to the amps, and 14 ga marine speaker wire out to the speakers.

Last parts I’m waiting on is a set of custom speaker trim rings for the archspeakers. Hopefully this week.

 

Custom made speaker trim rings in hand. I used Frank at Trimmed Out Inc. --> https://www.trimmedoutinc.com/ Great pricing, quick turn around, easy to deal with. Turned out a set of custom rings in a day, and at my house in 4 days over a holiday week-end! If your doing a project and need some custom cut starboard material, give them a shout.

 

Custom made speaker trim rings in hand. I used Frank at Trimmed Out Inc. --> https://www.trimmedoutinc.com/ Great pricing, quick turn around, easy to deal with. Turned out a set of custom rings in a day, and at my house in 4 days over a holiday week-end! If your doing a project and need some custom cut starboard material, give them a shout.

View attachment 145286 View attachment 145287 View attachment 145288

Very nice! Worth the extra steps!


EDIT: Holy cow do they have great prices!

 

Finally have the 4 Fusion 7.7 mounted with an appropriate trim ring, so phase 1 complete, and looking good.

 

Also pulled new 2/0 power wire from the DC panels in the bilge to the space outboard of the helm/map pocket.
Next up is to connect up the other ends to the fuse and main - bus bar, and install the amps on a nice panel.

 

More progress. New 14 ga speaker wire pulled and terminated with the new speakers.

Platform for the amps mounted, and first amp mounted. Pretty much ready for the final wiring to the amps. Of course I need a few minor pcs and parts because I didn’t measure . Nothing Amazon can’t fix.

 

One note for anyone thinking of adding speakers in this area under the cockpit step of a 410 (probably similar in a 400 or a 380). There is a fiberglassed support running perpendicular under the step for support. It seams to have been installed sort of haphazardly, such that the speakers could not be installed symmetrically.

Pull the light fixture and measure well befor cutting! I used a tape measure to locate the support, and adjust accordingly. Speakers fit right in next to the support.

 

Final Configuration. After much measuring and getting some good advice from CSR, I finally have my stereo upgrade complete with new power wiring, speakers and amps. I used 3 zones in the cockpit area, one in the front, one in the arch and added a 3rd in the back. The speakers in Zone 1 and 2 are tied together and are all down lower in the cockpit, so not so in your face as the arch speakers. If I really want to let it rip, I can adjust the arch speakers separately. The admiral should like that!

Over all
- More sound due to more speakers (6 vs 4) and more power (50W/Ch vs 150W/ch)
- Much better sound due to the bigger speakers, and moving sound plane down away from directly at our ears.

 

My unit is on a separate switch/circuit at the helm and automatically powers up when I hit the switch. I never have powered it up from the face of the unit.

I have no idea what setting I turned on to make thus happen.

But I agree worth trying to fix.

 

Same for me, I use the NRX300 and have it set to wake the head unit. I never even touch or use the interface on the head unit.

 

So, I stopped by the boat - the stereo system turns on and off using the remotes. Seems a front panel issue with the head.

 

So, 100% of all the MS-RA770 failures I've ever heard of have the same symptom. Pretty small sample but have to wonder how many of the total failures of these units that Fusion has seen are from this issue. And how willing they are to step up to the plate on repair out of warranty.

 

Speaking of stereo upgrades, the one boat has an older Kenwood headunit and although it's BT compatible and has a remote on the helm I'm interested to see if I can upgrade to a Fusion unit and also upgrade the head unit on the Sea Ray to get the Party Bus mode for these two boats.

I did a quick virtual chat with Crutchfield and they said that in order to have Party Bus it's required to have a chart plotter/MFD with nema 2000 for everything to work. Is that really accurate? I was hoping to upgrade the searay unit and get a new one for the other boat and have Party Bus mode for my two boats.

 

Speaking of stereo upgrades, the one boat has an older Kenwood headunit and although it's BT compatible and has a remote on the helm I'm interested to see if I can upgrade to a Fusion unit and also upgrade the head unit on the Sea Ray to get the Party Bus mode for these two boats.

I did a quick virtual chat with Crutchfield and they said that in order to have Party Bus it's required to have a chart plotter/MFD with nema 2000 for everything to work. Is that really accurate? I was hoping to upgrade the searay unit and get a new one for the other boat and have Party Bus mode for my two boats.

At least for a MS-RA770 the answer is not necessarily. Party Bus gets information exchanged across compatible stereo systems either wirelessly (Wi-Fi) or hardwired ethernet network or both. The typical setup is to hardware to a Wi-Fi router then compatible stereos can either be connected via hardwire ethernet or Wi-Fi. The router and connected devices must be configured as DHCP.
The NMEA 2000 comes into play if you want to control the Party Bus on a NMEA 2000 remote or MFD that is on the NMEA network.
It gets more complex and limited if the MS-RA770 is connected to the Garmin Marine Network (ethernet) as that will not allow the use of a separate Wi-Fi router (at least from my trials and tribulations). I have my MS-RA770 connected to the GMN as then the Sirius XM artwork gets displayed on the boats chart plotters when using a standard Sirius XM receiver connected to the Fusion Head (preferred method BTW).
If the ethernet on the MS-RA770 is connected to the GMN then the stereo head needs to be configured as a Wireless Wi-Fi device and now it can be a part of the Party Bus via Wi-Fi. With that, however, comes limited distance.
I read the same Garmin literature that the sales person did; it is a bit misleading - at least for the Fusion MS-RA770.

A note on Sirius XM - there are two methods to connect satellite audio to the Garmin/Fusion system. One is through a standard commercial Sirius XM receiver into the Fusion Head and the other through the Garmin GXM NMEA 2000 weather/Sirius receiver or both.
If Sirius XM is connected using a Garmin GXM then the Sirius radio must be controlled using the boat's Chart Plotter MFD - you will get tuning controls and Sirius artwork on the MFD. You will not be able to listen to Sirius XM without the MFD, nor be able to tune / view any of the Sirius XM content on the Fusion radio system. The audio output from the MFD to the Fusion is into the AUX RCA on the Fusion - no control or artwork data....
If the Sirius XM is connected using a standard Sirius XM receiver to the Sirius port on the audio head unit then all Sirius controls are on the Fusion head, remotes, Chart Plotters if all are connected to the NMEA 2000 network plus the Fusion App for a Smartphone. The only thing not available on the MFD chart plotter is the Sirius XM artwork. To get the artwork data from the Sirius XM/Fusion radio onto the chart plotter then the Fusion head ethernet needs to be connected to the Garmin Marine Network....

We broke the code on all of this several years ago on this forum.