Sounds like a good plan.

For a detailed how to on rebedding and core sealing go to marinehowto.com or is it compassmarinehowto.com? Great instructions and pics on the proper method.

I also have a moisture problem around the forward hatch. Search on sailboatowners.com. An engineer there developed a brillant method of creating a vacuum that boils the water out at low tempersture then draws in the epoxy to fill any voids. This is a real game changer over traditional methods.

Good luck. Please post pics of your progress.

 

Remove and rebed all 4 fwd deck opening hatches also confirming the factory “cuts” are correct and not oversized.
Remove and rebed all portlites and replace the glass opening seals
Butyl Tape
Address the notorious center bow rail intrusion pathas follows:
Clean the mating surface with acetone/lacquer thinnerRun a TINY, TINY bead of BOATLIFE white caulk at the base of each attaching point.
Won't work / last long at all. Need to unbolt and lift that pad then clean the areas and rebed with 4200 including sealing the bolts/screws. Make sure you mask around the area before putting that 4200 in; otherwise, you'll have that stuff everywhere on your deck....

I WAS thinking to use BUTYL TAPE on the surface where the hatches and portlites meet the fiberglass and use caulk in the void to seal off the core. Now that I've read some old posts, think I'll seal all the opening edges with epoxy, them use 3M Marine silicone?
Will “dig out” whatever wet/damp/moist core I might find when removing the hatches.
Ambitious - You can route out the coring around the perimeters then using a thickened epoxy seal it. Or use a penetrating epoxy and just paint over the coring if it is in good shape and dry. Butyl Tape is the standard for sealing portlites and hatches mainly due to the inconsistency and movements of the flange to FRP. The Butyl allows more movement between the two things. Also Butyl allows easier future removal should that be required.

 

Taylor Made is requiring the WINDSHIELD NUMBER so I can proceed with the rubber insert order.

She's a 1996 450DA

Can anyone give me some direction on this, or perhaps tell me where to find this number (on the windshield frame, NOT the glass) ?

BEST !

RWS

 

You have to call Sea Ray customer service or comb through the docs to find the original taylor made parts. It will give you the PN and approximate length required although you should measure yourself to be sure. Forewarning, that stuff ain't cheap. I think it was almost $300 for my old 290 which has a significantly smaller windshield than your boat

 

You guys talking about the insert over the screws at the bottom of the windshield?

 

You guys talking about the insert over the screws at the bottom of the windshield?

View attachment 123456

yeah, the foam replacement is cheap - the 'new style' rubber molding is super expensive per ft

 

Epoxy over any dry, exposed coring when you have the hatches out.

 

I found my invoice from the old boat. 27ft @ $3.70/ft, Taylormade PN 8349030. I'm not sure if that's the same as the 450DA though

 

@Nauti 97 recently posted about rebedding and replacing the foam with rubber around his windshield. I think he went with a 3M rubber product.

 

Thanks for the shout out!
I used part no. 8349040 from Flounder pounder. It is Rubber and exact replacement for several Searay windshields. Go on there website and search by part no. And it will tell you boats that people have used it in. If it’s like the 380 it will take 8349040 for all except the center wing window. That frame is smaller and it takes Part no. 8349030.
This stuff is about $5.25 a foot.
The actual replacement for Original Foam can be purchased at Mc Master Carr.
Those part numbers are as follows.
Part no. 8694K153 for all windshield except center wing. 30 feet required for 380 Sundancer.
Part no. 8694K88 for center. 3 ft required for 380 Sundancer.
This foam will shrink down quite a lot so cut it extra long and wedge it in.
It also deteriorated faster than the rubber stuff from Flounder Pounder. But is quite a bit cheaper. Less than $2.00/ foot
I have used both. I change mine every 3 years so either kind works for me.
Hopefully this helps.

 

THANK YOU FOR ALL THE HELPFUL RESPONSES !

I started with the portside hatch in the head - no headliner (will post pix later)

Next up are the 3 hatches in the headliner.

Does anyone know how to remove the upholstered surrounds without damage?

Mine are perfect, as is the headliner and I hesitate to move ahead without some guidance.

BEST !

RWS

 

RWS, did you manage to get the hatch upholstered bolster off? I think it plugs into the headliner support with christmas tree plugs. Is this what you found?

When sealing the hatch back into place did you use butyl tape as well as Sika 295 or 5200?

KR

Greg

 

You guys talking about the insert over the screws at the bottom of the windshield?

View attachment 123456

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Perhaps this update will benefit CSR

I removed and resealed each of the windshield attachment screws on my 1996 450 DA

After reading all the info here on CSR, decided not to use the Taylor made replacement rubber.

It doesn’t last too long in the florida sun.

Bought a sheet of this closed cell from McMaster Carr:

https://www.mcmaster.com/catalog/128/3949

I cut it into big fat strips and compressed it into the slot.

The difference here is that this product should outlast the Taylor Made product in the sun, plus I have lots left over to do the job again, or even twice more if needed.

The biggest plus is that his product is very soft and compressible.
By cutting it wide and squeezing the fattest size I could shove into that slot this boat will avoid having water collect in there.

I believe this is a tremendous benefit.

Here's some pix:

BEST !

RWS

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Perhaps this update will benefit CSR

I removed and resealed each of the windshield attachment screws on my 1996 450 DA

After reading all the info here on CSR, decided not to use the Taylor made replacement rubber.

It doesn’t last too long in the florida sun.

Bought a sheet of this closed cell from McMaster Carr:

https://www.mcmaster.com/catalog/128/3949

I cut it into big fat strips and compressed it into the slot.

The difference here is that this product should outlast the Taylor Made product in the sun, plus I have lots left over to do the job again, or even twice more if needed.

The biggest plus is that his product is very soft and compressible.
By cutting it wide and squeezing the fattest size I could shove into that slot this boat will avoid having water collect in there.

I believe this is a tremendous benefit.

Here's some pix:

BEST !

RWS
View attachment 130558 View attachment 130559 View attachment 130560 View attachment 130561 View attachment 130562 View attachment 130563 View attachment 130564

Great Job
can you send me a few strips...

Saverio

 

I went with 3M marine silicone.

It will allow for some flex

yes, Christmas tree fasteners

Busy here now with storm repairs - limited internet- using a hotspot

needed a diversion

BEST !

RWS

 

Back on the story of leaking hatches.

The sealant must have given out at some point, and I noticed a few drops of water on the bench top after a heavy rain.

Pulled the hatch bolster off to see what was going on...

Clearly water had been getting in for a while and it looks like an imperfection in the fiberglass is the culprit, although once I removed the hatch, I could tell the sealant had given up and the fiberglass imperfection was not really at fault (no screws above). I filled the imperfection with epoxy once dry. It didn't take much - gravity must have drawn the water down further.

The bolster had taken most of the damage.

Time for some amateur engineering!

Don't worry about the splits in the outer layer of the treated plywood as I filled the saw cuts with epoxy.

And from the visible side, it looks as good as new.

Next post...fitting it all back together.

Hope this helps others who might have the same problem.

-Greg

 

Part two of the leaking hatch.

Lifted the hatch out using the stainless pry bar and a flat piece of wood underneath to prevent damage to the deck & gelcoat. It lifted out very easily at the top right corner (not the corner where most of the damage to the bolster occurred). The water was coming in at the top right corner by the hinge and tracking down (gravity) to the bottom right.

The water probably tracked along the underside until it hit the imperfection, pooling there before dripping off onto the bolster and support.

Anyway, sealed this, cleaned off all surfaces and resealed the hatch in place.

I used SikaFlex 291...hmm, first time using this stuff. I imagine its very good, however, it's nasty to work with. I expected to be able to use the good old detergent trick to wipe off excess sealant. Well, that idea is probably the worst idea as the Sika appears to set when water hits it. Wiping it off with detergent + water just smears it all over the place...what a nightmare! Anyway, many hours later...finally cleaned it up with 5000 sheets of paper towel.

Time to set the bolster back in place!

As I had to install new christmas tree plugs it was quite difficult to align them with the existing holes, so pushed them part way into the ceiling holes, dabbed some paint on the end and then pushed the bolster up to mark the drill points. This method worked fine.

And finally resealed the bolster and hatch.

I'm reasonably happy with the result. Others with better craftmanship skills could do a better job, but it worked out well enough in the end.

Crafting difficulty for me (amateur) - I would say probably a 6 out of 10 (most difficult).

- Greg

 

Part two of the leaking hatch.

Lifted the hatch out using the stainless pry bar and a flat piece of wood underneath to prevent damage to the deck & gelcoat. It lifted out very easily at the top right corner (not the corner where most of the damage to the bolster occurred). The water was coming in at the top right corner by the hinge and tracking down (gravity) to the bottom right.

View attachment 135097

The water probably tracked along the underside until it hit the imperfection, pooling there before dripping off onto the bolster and support.

View attachment 135101

Anyway, sealed this, cleaned off all surfaces and resealed the hatch in place.

View attachment 135102

I used SikaFlex 291...hmm, first time using this stuff. I imagine its very good, however, it's nasty to work with. I expected to be able to use the good old detergent trick to wipe off excess sealant. Well, that idea is probably the worst idea as the Sika appears to set when water hits it. Wiping it off with detergent + water just smears it all over the place...what a nightmare! Anyway, many hours later...finally cleaned it up with 5000 sheets of paper towel.

Time to set the bolster back in place!

View attachment 135103

As I had to install new christmas tree plugs it was quite difficult to align them with the existing holes, so pushed them part way into the ceiling holes, dabbed some paint on the end and then pushed the bolster up to mark the drill points. This method worked fine.

And finally resealed the bolster and hatch.

View attachment 135104

I'm reasonably happy with the result. Others with better craftmanship skills could do a better job, but it worked out well enough in the end.

Crafting difficulty for me (amateur) - I would say probably a 6 out of 10 (most difficult).

- Greg

Next time you use the 291, mask off the areas. I mask an entire area then set and fasten the item to be caulked and cut the masking around the perimeter then remove the hatch (or whatever) and pull up the masking inside of the cut line. Now you have a perfect line for the caulking that you can tool. BTW, I found that mineral spirits cleans it up pretty good until it sets up.

 

Greg,

The bolster looks great !

Nice work on the cuts/epoxy work.

I understand that you removed and sealed the hatch itself.

How did you handle the damage to the balsa core?

BEST !

RWS

 

The deck structure was not compromised, but I think you are referring to the supports for the headliner and bolster?

• If that's the case, I cut and removed the dead wood and crafted a new elbow insert out of marine ply, epoxying 3 layers of 4 ply together (sandwich). This elbow then formed the new corner for the headliner and bolster to attach to.
• If you are referring to the deck where the hatch sits, this has plywood between the fiberglass sheets, and it was not compromised. I gave it a lick of paint to add some sealing. Where you can see the lower fiberglass imperfection, there was a minor cavity, which I filled with a small amount of epoxy using a syringe, also levelling it out with the underside of the deck.

The top right corner of the hatch had a screw that was slightly loose and the sealant beneath this corner of the hatch had separated from the deck allowing water to be drawn through. Possibly a slight pressure differential between the outside and inside saloon or simply gravity, I'm no expert on the Physics.

-Greg

 

the rebedding of these hatches is important to maintaining the integrity of the deck area.

The balsa core sandwiched between the fiberglass is a sponge when water finds its way in.

I looked at several 450's before lucking myself into the one I presently own.

When (notice I said when, not if) water finds it's way past the now dried out factory sealant, it can make oatmeal of the balsa core.

The flexing of the deck and or the freeze/thaw creates those spyder cracks in the gelcoat/fiberglass.

These boats ae now in their 26th year.

I just did the 4 on my boat, repaired what was necessary and even though I've sealed everything off I plan on rebedding these hatches every 10 years to protect the integrity of the deck structure.

Same with sealing the windshield base screws, and keeping that thick black gasket fresh so water does not collect in there.

Mechanical parts are easily replaced. This kind of preventative maintenance cannot be easily caught up once the damage is done.

Good as these boats are, they are still PRODUCTION BOATS and there are some things that require additional care as they age.

BEST !

RWS

 

Every hatch and portlight I've pulled on my SR boats revealed sloppy workmanship in cutting the hole causing insufficient overlap for bedding and sealing. One instance an external screw had nothing under it to thread into; it was "puckied" in place with some silicone sealant. In my opinion any SR boat over ten years old should have the openings re-bedded based upon experience. It's not that difficult of a job unless other issues are uncovered.
Another problem area is the deck to hull shoebox overlap under the rub rail. Here again, SR did a poor job getting that area prepared and sealed especially in the larger boats.
Here is an example on my 52DB - you can see where there was no overlap for seal over the top.

 

Was well informed on this matter - Eyes wide open when shopping for the 450DA Sea Ray.

Additionally, surveyor cautioned me on this item, telling me that SR often cut the holes too big.

In addition to Tom's comment above strongly suggest when any portlite hatch or ANY item is removed from any balsa core area to not only re-bed the item in question, but to REMOVE THE SURROUNDING EXPOSED BALSA CORE AND SEAL WITH EPOXY !

I plan on getting to the large engine room air intake covers this winter.

Wishing I had the time to get to them before she went through the eye of CAT 4 HURRICANE IAN !!!

BEST !

RWS

 

In addition to Tom's comment above strongly suggest when any portlite hatch or ANY item is removed from any balsa core area to not only re-bed the item in question, but to REMOVE THE SURROUNDING EXPOSED BALSA CORE AND SEAL WITH EPOXY !

RWS

THIS. Seal all exposed core edges with epoxy. Unfortunately a short cut in production which proves costly years later.