I'm sure the Mercury Marine products will be "top quality" over the next few years...

Glad I bought an '08 when the workers were still happy. These are the guys who are going to assemble the new high tech big block. I'm sure they will be taking the utmost care in assembly.

 

There goes Rick's new engines.

 

Rick's new engines are built and in a truck to be delivered on September 3.:smt038

 

I don't understand why unions think that a downturn in a business should not translate to a downturn in jobs...

 

That's why they are organizing the labor and not managing the business.

 

Cause Obama said so.

 

I think the unions should target girl scouts... I hear they have loads of cash...

 

If they just hold out, maybe they'll own the company like what happened with GM.

 

Part of my family is from Michigan, and during a visit yesterday, this was part of the discussion. I was told that, what I didn't understand was the pervasiveness of the pro-Union attitude and that it had been instilled now for a couple of generations. It was described as "us vs. them" at a visceral level...with "us" being the unions, and "them" being Republicans, management, banks, foreign car manufacturers, and anyone who drove a foreign car.

Their leadership is drawn from their ranks, and is rewarded for perpetuating the fiction and the conflict. It hasn't helped that Wall Street spent a couple of decades looting the productive capacity of America with leveraged buyouts and coroprations have routinely unfundered benefit plans. I still remember when GM replaced its engineering management with bean counters...but that is another rant for another day.

The conclusion is inevitable. FDL production for Mercury is going to suffer horribly during the transition to Oklahoma. Thankfully, a lot is automated and hopefully there are quality controls in place to limit the carnage.

 

I think Merc does their engine assembly work in Stillwater. That's where they hand-build their high performance engines. Probably where they'll build the 8.1's replacement, too.

 

I've worked in 6 different union environments in the last 30 years, and have seen the progression from the "us vs. them" to what it is now...only a left over useless institution. Most agree that unions once had a place and function, about 50 years ago. Today, they are a farce that suck dollars from earnings sorely needed by families. The Feds have put laws in place that weren't there years ago. The unions aren't needed. IMHO, people that keep voting the unions in deserve just what they voted for...just like those that voted in the last Presidential election. Hope this doesn't offend, but to me the question and the answer are pretty simple. If you don't want to work there, leave, and go somewhere else.

 

I like you answer, and it just evades me all of this hyperbole about US Automakers and Foreign manufactures. Just guessing, but I would say the foreign manufacturers have more plants in the USA and employ more people. Toyota typically strives for the use of 80% of their materials to come from the US. Honda, BMW and I believe Hyundai and Mercedes also have plants here. Oh and the parts they use also come from USA parts supplier.

So just what is a US Auto Maker, GovMint-Motors, Ford and Cry-sler have been moving their manufacturing out of the country while, gulp, those damn foreign auto makers have built plants in the USA. I suppose that is where all of the "Illegal Aliens " are working?

I drive a Toyota Truck and a Corvette.

:thumbsup:

 

Hey southpaw, what car do you drive?

 

Chevys...Silverado and Tahoe. Doesn't have a thing to do with anything I said. And by the way, I once belonged to a union.

 

No.......just the tenet of unionism in general. In this day of international competition for jobs and lower manufacturing costs, I feel the cost of operating a business with a union gives America a big disadvantage. I've seen all the jobs going to Mexico and China, and I remember the powerhouse of manufacturing that this country used to be. The U.S. has all but lost the infrastructure to produce the skilled tool and die makers and the machinists that it had 30 years ago. I haven't seen an "apprentice" in a long time. Granted I live in the South, and the skillset regionally here is a shadow compared to that of the Midwest and Northeast, but the good old days of manufacturing are gone.

 

Don't hate the unions, they are not an "evil organization" (especially its members). They just need to learn how to be competitive with current labor rates, and believe me, they pretty beat up right now, its a turning point. Its not solely the american unions fault things are the way they are, by far. Its my opinion its high end management that has screwed this country up at the moment.

So now is not the time to bitch about the unions, they are feeling the pain like everyone else.... save your energy and wait until the economy turns around, and the unions come out from under the rocks their hiding.

 

Its my opinion its high end management that has screwed this country up at the moment.

I'd say it's high end management on both sides, the union and the corporations! Neither is willing to bend to be competitive so jobs and companies are disappearing.

 

Look at Germany. A powerful western country with a high cost of living and expensive labor. Everyone gets a month of vacation. Yet, they are able to thrive in manufacturing and exports and produce leading edge design of high quality and precison. What are they doing differently?

 

Something to aspire too? I dont think the usa is doing anything differently. I think we are a model to them. Germany is the largest exporter and second largest importer of goods just under the states, something most americans bitch about, but is essential. Plus they have just had the worst recession since WWII as many countries are.

As for vacation, Im a regular schmoe, and i get 4 weeks off a year. I think americans just work harder, always have... their heritage.

I'd say it's high end management on both sides, the union and the corporations! Neither is willing to bend to be competitive so jobs and companies are disappearing.

Im thinking more about banks, creditors... basically all of wall streets mess.

 

Ford? Just stay away from their diesel engines from 2000 on and you'll be fine! I'd go Duramax! :thumbsup:

Gary has a Dodge!! Wow, that explains SO much! :grin::smt043

 

Ford? Just stay away from their diesel engines from 2000 on and you'll be fine! I'd go Duramax! :thumbsup:

Gary has a Dodge!! Wow, that explains SO much! :grin::smt043

I've run diesels from chevy, under powered cheap pos (yep the duramax) and I used real world testing. I first had a dodge with a cummins, less than 10k miles (bought new), hooked up to a horse trailer headed up a hill and tore the rear end off. Yes you read that correctly. Prior to this problem, it would not tow the trailer more than 50 mph uphill when loaded. Used a chevy with a duramax to get home, would not tow the same trailer up a hill more than 30 mph. Got smart, bought a Ford with a 6 liter. Hauls the same trailer uphill at 65 mph (if I want). Put several hundred thousand miles on that truck, bought another, works just as well. The only other truck that I would consider is a medium duty hauler, and not one made by chevy.

Also, if you do your research you will see that unionized labor in the US, is far less productive, has higher costs and the employee actually takes home less money. Unions had their place in our history. They are no longer needed, nor do they provide the employees with any type of benefit.

 

OK...this thread has officially been hijacked. My chevy has 427,000 on the original gasoline engine. If anybody can top that, feel free to post. Mercury Marine has their own problems.

 

OK...

How about you go to McDonalds every day and eat apple pies and get fat and have a heart attack, is it McDonalds fault because they pressured you to buy them because they kept asking "would you like an apple pie with that quarter pounder with cheese meal?"

 

Oh jesus christ!!!

These creditors and mortgages handed out loans to 20 yr olds or anyone with a pulse.

Heres an analogy:

Its like handing out guns in divorce court... whos responsible? :smt043

 

Oh jesus christ!!!

These creditors and mortgages handed out loans to 20 yr olds or anyone with a pulse.

Heres an analogy:

Handing out guns in divorce court... whos responsible? :smt043

The person who pulls the trigger? No?

You mean the 20-year olds are not responsible for taking out the mortgages?

 

Unions are passé and are running into real trouble. In modern society, they are a superfluous model at best. UAW has the lowest membership demographics ever and it's only survival is to reach out to Nissan, Toyota and Honda. Under the current administration, they may be able to gain some ground, but they are also competing with a horrid economy. Which plants will be closed?..... Union of course, and tops officials from Japanese companies make no secret of this. Signing a union card these days is like shooting yourself in the foot.....

And yes... that is a decent analogy. : )

Mike

 

It's the Governments Fault, It's their fault for forcing Banks to lend money to people that didn't qualify, it's their fault for guaranteeing those loans for people that didn't qualify, and it's their fault for bailing them out. If the government never got involved, banks would have had to manage their own risk and none of this would have happened.

As far a timing the markets and protecting myself, I just do the opposite of what my UPS guy does. If he's buying stocks, I'm selling. If he's investing in Real estate, I'm not. If he's foreclosing on his "homes", well, I always wanted to have a place in Florida.

 

It's the Governments Fault, It's their fault for forcing Banks to lend money to people that didn't qualify, it's their fault for guaranteeing those loans for people that didn't qualify, and it's their fault for bailing them out. If the government never got involved, banks would have had to manage their own risk and none of this would have happened.

I am surprised that no one laid any blame at the governments feet. The housing bubble is back to the government, they created the vehicle for Wall Street to give out mortgages and then lay them off on us taxpayers.

Management and unions are both responsible for the automobile mess. Unions could not give anything up and management could not afford the strike. Didn't these people see this coming? It has been coming for 50 years now. High labor costs could be absorbed in large vehicles not small ones so Detroit took on the large vehicle side of the market and gave the rest to everyone else. ions are caused by management and management can get rid them. Unfortunately, government likes unions because they are viewed as a voting block that it wants in place. Enough ranting

Yes! Thank you. Two excellent posts. I have nothing to add. Great job!

 

Back to Mercury and the Union.

The union may feel that they didn't get a fair shake from Mercury but to say they won't bend at all makes no sense with the loss of their jobs being the end result. In the end they all deserve what it is coming to them and that is unemployment. It was their choice to make and essentially they voted their jobs out of existence. Pretty stupid if you ask me in todays economy especially as long as Mercury had the Stillwater trump card in their back pocket.

But Mercury has given them a second chance according to the latest news story "Company officials have said they would keep the jobs in Fond du Lac, if the union accepts it contract proposal before Saturday at midnight." Let's see if they are smart enough to say yes to the contract this time.





Dave

 

Back to Mercury and the Union.

The union may feel that they didn't get a fair shake from Mercury but to say they won't bend at all makes no sense with the loss of their jobs being the end result. In the end they all deserve what it is coming to them and that is unemployment. It was their choice to make and essentially they voted their jobs out of existence. Pretty stupid if you ask me in todays economy especially as long as Mercury had the Stillwater trump card in their back pocket.

But Mercury has given them a second chance according to the latest news story "Company officials have said they would keep the jobs in Fond du Lac, if the union accepts it contract proposal before Saturday at midnight."Let's see if they are smart enough to say yes to the contract this time.

Dave

The one thing to keep in mind during these union negotiations is these press releases or media are tools for management (and unions). Sort of a scare tactic for the public, but the unions know these tricks and use them as well. This particular article in the first post seems to be sympathetic to the unions side. So there will probably be another release to look out for today (before saturday)

 

I am surprised that no one laid any blame at the governments feet. The housing bubble is back to the government, they created the vehicle for Wall Street to give out mortgages and then lay them off on us taxpayers. Management and unions are both responsible for the automobile mess. Unions could not give anything up and management could not afford the strike. Didn't these people see this coming? It has been coming for 50 years now. High labor costs could be absorbed in large vehicles not small ones so Detroit took on the large vehicle side of the market and gave the rest to everyone else. ions are caused by management and management can get rid them. Unfortunately, government likes unions because they are viewed as a voting block that it wants in place. Enough ranting

 

OK here you go:

I work for the government. The VA. My title is Labor Employee Relations Manager. Yep I am a management puke! I started as a union president. Federal union then went to the "dark side" because the money was better.

The Prez has appointed all union officials in positions in the feds that are going to favor the unions, surprise......yeah right.

I deal directly with federal labor unions and fire employees (management and workers) that abuse my heroes.

The next few years are going to be interesting.....

I only have 6 years to retirement :smt009

 

:smt038:smt038whoohooo!! :smt038 :smt038best news I've heard all day!! A great modernized facility with plenty of capacity is going to keep running! I know some builders that are in great shape to provide resonably cost housing and a bank to provide mortages to the folks moving down here.

 

Well this sounds nice...la pukey, oh where is the puke icon?

Payday for Unions

Worth the one page read from "Investors.com" August 25, 2009

Mommy, Whats a socialist? :huh:

 

What a bunch of idiots. The union management waits until the last minute on Saturday to decide to have a second vote and tried to extend the voting into Sunday. The company said they won't accept the Sunday votes since they originally said Saturday was the deadline. Why didn't the Union decide this on Friday? Everyone's jobs were at stake!!!

I would be fuming mad at Union Management if I was a worker in that plant.


Read the whole story here. http://www.jsonline.com/business/56129892.html