Um... Detroit we have a problem... I agree how do you ship out a car with no brakes...

 

Gee is that grinding sound common? Why yes on these models. We keep the cost down by not installing all the brake parts. There is a slight increase in price if you would like the car to stop in a timely manner. :smt119

 

I saw this earlier and was waiting to see how long it took for someone to bring it up. Yep, I have defended GM here a time or two from the American Car bashers but this is ridiculous.

Not that this makes up for it but considering I did once work at an auto plant (not GM) , I have a feeling that whole assembly (steering rack) is basically "pre assembled", with discs, calipers and everything else already assembled in a single unit. They basically roll it in on a rack and bolt it all on. So it is probably not like someone in the assembly line just "forgot" to put brake pads on before they installed the calipers. This mistake likely occured in a pre-assembly area or by a supplier; maybe even a robot. But again, that is no excuse for a complete absence of QA on an essential system.

I still stand by the GM vehicles I own and have owned or been issued by an employer for the past 15 years. None have been the "el-cheapo" cars though like the "Sonic" that are supposed to compete with the Korean cars either. I have never had and doubts the low end GM cars are crap and this just proves that again. In fact pretty much all low end cars are crap except for probably the Honda Civic and Toyota Corolla. I would not want to drive either one very far or see one get hit in a crash but they do seem to run forever.

 

I saw this earlier and was waiting to see how long it took for someone to bring it up.

Not long when you have retired guys spending hours upon hours surfing the web for something to talk about. They used to call them "fault finders" several years ago. I hope if I ever do retire, I find a better way to spend my idle time.

 

In fact pretty much all low end cars are crap except for probably the Honda Civic and Toyota Corolla. I would not want to drive either one very far or see one get hit in a crash but they do seem to run forever.


I disagree, in 2000 i walked into Hyundai and bought an elantra, drove it home an hour later . that car Never saw the dealership again, it took a bad hit, and my 21 yr old 11 yrs later to take it out . I gave my 2005 altima to my daughter with 125,000 miles on it and would drive that car cross country. I will never buy a midsized or smaller american car again. We have an expedition which has been pretty reliable and two German autos now. All they need is synthetic oil every year, thats reliablity and craftsmanship period.

 

Well they had to figure out another way to pay those big bonuses for the executives!

 

Guess the guy that installs the pads took a few days off of work. But how in the hell do you drive a car with no front pads someone must have noticed this problem.

I drive a Buick, love it have been driving them since 1997 and have not had one problem with any of them. My next vehicle will be a Lincoln MKX love the look of them and friends that have them have not had any problems.

The 2006, 2007 and 2008 Civic 1.8 are junk. The blocks were cast from used material and are very porous big dollars to fix.

Every car manufacture has it's lemons some don't seem to every learn.

Ken

 

Speaking of GM, I heard a good one today.....


"Don't think of it as a Chevy Volt...

Think of it as a $45,000 Pinto!!!"

Yeah, that makes the Chevy Volt all better now. By the way, how much does that "Instant Fire" option on the Volt cost, or is that included in the base price of the car?

 

Speaking of GM, I heard a good one today.....


"Don't think of it as a Chevy Volt...

Think of it as a $45,000 Pinto!!!"

Yeah, that makes the Chevy Volt all better now. By the way, how much does that "Instant Fire" option on the Volt cost, or is that included in the base price of the car?

Not to target, but this is FALSE, and unfair. The fires have only occurred WEEKS after crash testing, and in each case the battery wasn't drained per GM instructions post-incident.

I'm not saying the Volt is the best car around, but pushing it as the next Pinto is completely off-base.

 

Buy a Scooters and be SAFE. :grin:. :lol:

 

And how about 550,000 toyotas being recalled last month, and, all the recalls they had in 09...............:grin:

 

"Some Sonics could be missing an inner or outer brake pad, which could increase stopping distance."


Go figure. :huh:

LK

 

As a GM retiree I DO NOT Condone nor except or even understand how this happened and it is unacceptable. However I must point out to all the haters out there that in years 2009-2011 the automobile company with the MOST recalls some of which included DEATHS was Toyota.

I have owned 25 GM cars and trucks and never had one that had any major recalls nor did they have anything major that needed to go back to the dealer for.

Just sayin...........

 

As a GM retiree I DO NOT Condone nor except or even understand how this happened and it is unacceptable. However I must point out to all the haters out there that in years 2009-2011 the automobile company with the MOST recalls some of which included DEATHS was Toyota.

I have owned 25 GM cars and trucks and never had one that had any major recalls nor did they have anything major that needed to go back to the dealer for.

Just sayin...........

Thanks for bringing this up. It amazes me that the foreign car lovers (A.K.A. USA haters) seem to forget that Toyota hit this for years, this problem started with the first electric throttle cars they put out. I didn't see the media till last year, but that is OK for the foreign car manufactures, they always get the free pass. Yet they continued to kill and paralyze American without a recall till the US government forced, some one from Toyota leadership should go to federal prison over trying to hide this.

The domestics, once a safety issue is identified step up to the plate and get the recall going on their own from what I have seen. I guess American based company looking out for the safety of their customers, where as the foreign manufacturer came off as not caring at all.

Just pointing this stuff out to all the USA haters.

 

Quality control at it's best
wow.....

 

No matter what brand it is the issue happened on the assembly line. Most line workers are taught one or two station before and after their station so they can see how the part should look that has just been installed before they install their parts. Looks like the subassembly was wrong and the main assembly either did not check the subassembly or didn't understand what should have been included in the subassembly.

This may be contributed to poor training on both the subassembly and main assembly line. It's very unusual for both lines to miss these parts. This can happen on first run assemblies of new models if the installers were not trained properly. Thats why the final inspection is critical on new models or first runs.

It's a common practice in our business to take random first runs off the line and completely dissassemble them to check line and part quality. We have a team that is dedicated to this process.

We have had recalls on vendor and design issues but very few assembly issues.

 

worst problems usually happen during labor disputes
it used to amaze me the stuff we found that was totally intentional.

 

So, if you were used to seeing axle/front suspension assemblies every day for 15 years, would you be conscious enough to notice a missing brake pad, or would you simply see the caliper and move on to the next item?

There's a reason we have QA/QC processes. People aren't perfect. Sounds like the sub-assembly line or the supplier might have had a run where the pads got missed.

By the way, the hatred for the Detroit three needs to stop. They, directly or indirectly, are responsible for 10-15% of the US manufacturing, total, and whether you like them or not, their success is part of the engine of our economy.

I lived in Detroit for a year and saw first-hand what those systems are like. Knowing the folks on the lines, brake pads would be something that would be easily overlooked if you knew how the cars come down the lines.

I know our company isn't perfect; we shouldn't expect others to be either regardless if they received taxpayer assistance or not.

 

It is telling that some here are so willing to call anyone that questions a US manufacture as a Hater. I've owned nothing but US made cars all my life. The first foriegn car I've owned was a Volvo with 330,000 on it. Never burnt a drop of oil or slipped a gear. Still have it. Does that make me a Hater?

I think I remember a little deal with Ford and some tires and the fire prone Pinto (Owned one and never got burnt). Or the brake and trans issues on the Ford pick up. Chrysler had a recall on automatic trans gear shift locks that would allow the trans to shift out of park. (Mine ran down a hill and hit a tree with my grandson in it.) Got a recall letter from them 6 months after the accident, Grandson suffered no damage thought the mini van was totalled

Check out the pictures of my front brake rotors with less than 60K on them from my Denali. So why did they rust on the inside.

I work for a global company and we no longer own the car business even though they are still built in the original plants and under the same standards as when we owned them. Otherwise they loose the name. Does that make me a Hater?

 

my Avalanche has had 3 sets of front rotors and 4 sets of rear in 140k
the pads were still very thick at 100k but I replaced all with top end Wagner parts and no issues since 100k

I suspect heat dissipation is bad on the OE parts

 

Got a a set of Wagner rotors and ceramic pads at Advance Auto. Problem solved! BTW the dealer paid for the parts and I did the labor. Stand up dealer for a car out of warranty!

 

We drive Audis and Acuras but I have to say I was impressed with a Lincoln Town Car that took us to SFO last week. It had 935,300 miles on it. The leather in the back set was a little worn but still looked very presentable. Been using the same limo company for years and the cars are all high mileage Town Cars. Most have 200,000-300,000 miles on them and still look and ride like new cars. The owner of the company does the maintenance by the book (no 3,000 mile oil changes) and runs them through a car wash every day. Ford seems to build pretty reliable cars although the Town Cars are very old designs. GM cars seem to scream "Look at my poor quality every day as you see them with one front running light burned out." What's going on with that? Now brakes?

 

[ GM cars seem to scream "Look at my poor quality every day as you see them with one front running light burned out." What's going on with that? It's called" Daytime running lights", and being that they are on all the time, the bulbs are burning out, you can program the car for them not to run during the day resulting in longer bulb life.

 

Yep. Know what they are. Most new cars have them but it's the GM cars that seem to have one light burned out.

 

By the way, the hatred for the Detroit three needs to stop. They, directly or indirectly, are responsible for 10-15% of the US manufacturing, total, and whether you like them or not, their success is part of the engine of our economy.

I lived in Detroit for a year and saw first-hand what those systems are like. Knowing the folks on the lines, brake pads would be something that would be easily overlooked if you knew how the cars come down the lines.

I know our company isn't perfect; we shouldn't expect others to be either regardless if they received taxpayer assistance or not.

As a GM retiree.....

I hate to rain on your "I LOVE GM" parade, but can either of you guys who profess to be familiar with GM explain to this poor ol' country boy how someone never caught these missing parts....on up to 4,500 cars? Doesn't someone drive the cars off the end of the assembly line to a storage lot somewhere? Doesn't someone on the QC team inspect the axle assemblies as they come off that part of the assembly line and before they're put into the chassis?

I'm not defending Toyota for their recall problems, but keep in mind one thing--those issues arose after the cars had been driven for thousands of miles, and those were DESIGN faults, not where someone just plain forgot to put his parts on the car as it came down the line. We're talking about two completely different sets of circumstances here folks.

Maybe the GM workers who were supposed to be putting brake pads on these cars were out partying on their lunch hours at the bars with the friendly folks from Chrysler (Google "Chrysler Workers Caught Drinking On The Job") or sharing a joint with their UAW buds.

Ya can't make this stuff up!

 

I got the same BS with the brake rotors on my Yukon and Silverado. The answers and reasons I get from the service manager at the dealer are rediculous.

 

Now, I'm thinkin that is one tuff caliper piston...

 

Woody, I only have about 10,000 miles since I put them on. I'll check them and get back to you.

By rot do you me this?

 

Woody, I only have about 10,000 miles since I put them on. I'll check them and get back to you.

By rot do you me this?

View attachment 23101 View attachment 23102

In the end I know it's all just rust but mine are literally falling apart in chunks. I have never seen rotors go to hell in all my years like this. Yes mine are similar to yours but many times worse in 12-18 months. The original rotors on both vehicles did well until wear required replacement. The new rotors put on are junk but the dealer tells me they are the same.

 

I sold my 2009 Cadillac STS last December. I sold it to.....GM.....they were forced to buy it back under the Lemon law. I've owned three cadillacs. EVERY one of them had numerous problems. As long as I can keep the admiral out of the show room...( they do make a pretty car)...I will not buy another cadillac....EVER!!!!

 

Random thoughts:

If you used the word "hater" to describe someone giving an opinion...

If somone bought a car they paid the price of admission to praise or bash it.

If you work there you can priase or bash it as well.

If you are a taxpayer forced to "save" a company you can praise or bash it.

If my company made it and it was bad I'd be embarassed.

If ANY of you went to a shop for a brake job and they forgot the pads they would be creamed in this forum.

There are different levels of recalls and mistakes. Seems forgetting a simple component is a bigger deal than finding out that some steel didn't get annealed properly or a cutting edge micro-circuit failed even after exaustive testing.

My 98 Tahoe pads and roters were toast after 17k My original 05 2500 Suburban brakes are still going at 102k. They can do it.

MM