I’m starting to upgrade my electronics- doing it in phases so I don’t break the bank.
I have removed the SeaRay Navigator and an Axiom RV is going in its place along with a B60 transducer connected directly to the Axiom for depth. The rest of the existing equipment includes:
E120 Classic
Analog open array radar
Ray230 vhf
ST7001 and S2G autopilot
Eventually I’ll replace the radar and connect it to the Axiom, then I’ll replace the E120.

So I’ve been doing research and I thought I had a plan on how to hook everything up but I think I hit a snag. My plan was to connect the E120, A/P controller and computer, and ray230 on a single seatalk1 bus and then connect that to a seatalk-seatalk ng converter which would interface the axiom to provide heading input to the axiom. But I just read that you can’t connect a seatalk A/P to the converter? Does that make sense?

I am prettry sure you are correct. Call Raymarine tech support they have been very helpfull to me over the past year of doing upgrades also.

 

I’m starting to upgrade my electronics- doing it in phases so I don’t break the bank.
I have removed the SeaRay Navigator and an Axiom RV is going in its place along with a B60 transducer connected directly to the Axiom for depth. The rest of the existing equipment includes:
E120 Classic
Analog open array radar
Ray230 vhf
ST7001 and S2G autopilot
Eventually I’ll replace the radar and connect it to the Axiom, then I’ll replace the E120.

So I’ve been doing research and I thought I had a plan on how to hook everything up but I think I hit a snag. My plan was to connect the E120, A/P controller and computer, and ray230 on a single seatalk1 bus and then connect that to a seatalk-seatalk ng converter which would interface the axiom to provide heading input to the axiom. But I just read that you can’t connect a seatalk A/P to the converter? Does that make sense?

I’m also in the midst of a Raymarine upgrade and I would add another good source is the Raymarine support forum on RM’s website. It’s less of a forum and more of a written CS session. You pose questions such as your post above and in a day or two RM responds. They have an extensive library of questions and answers and your questions may have already been asked. They do ask that posts be on a single topic where possible, AP related questions, networking questions, etc.

From your post I can’t answer your question other to say there is a very good post on Axiom and older AP compatibility. I have a S3G that is sort off compatible, but noticed from the RM Forum thread on the topic a number of the same generation APs are not.

Likewise, the STNG converters are limited in scope being only able to “convert” single devices, basically SeaTalk gps units. Raymarine’s networking architect/protocol/policy whatever is pure crap; seatalk, seatalkNG, nmea0183, and SeatalkHS. They’ve tried to come into the future, but they’ve kept compatibility with the past and now have a confusing POS. My AP has a special junction box that takes in data from all sources, STNG, ST, STHS, and nmea0183 and outputs to a devicenet cable that plugs into the boat’s CANBuss. The very definition of Rube Goldberg.

 

Thanks for the responses. Did some more research and it looks like what I want to do will work.
New problem- loss of GPS to the E120. The GPS was connected to the SR navigator black box. I did a test this morning and reconnected just the black box, plugged the GPS into that, and reconnected the autopilot to the black box. That gave me GPS back to the E120 so I’m guessing the signal goes via NMEA 0183. Any thoughts on how to bypass the SR navigator black box? The wires in the gps connector are black, blue, and bare. Can I connect this directly to the spare NMEA port on the autopilot?

 

Thanks for the responses. Did some more research and it looks like what I want to do will work.
New problem- loss of GPS to the E120. The GPS was connected to the SR navigator black box. I did a test this morning and reconnected just the black box, plugged the GPS into that, and reconnected the autopilot to the black box. That gave me GPS back to the E120 so I’m guessing the signal goes via NMEA 0183. Any thoughts on how to bypass the SR navigator black box? The wires in the gps connector are black, blue, and bare. Can I connect this directly to the spare NMEA port on the autopilot?

If your boat had a single Navigator with a single Raymarine E120 then there should have been two GPS receivers; one for the SR Navigator system and one for the Raymarine equipment. The Navigator GPS is NMEA0183 and the Raymarine is either NMEA0183 or Seatalk1. I would recommend to use neither and get a new NG/NMEA2000 compliant GPS receiver and be done with it.

 

I think the GPS position from the Axiom will pass through the converter. I have a similar setup and I get position to my AP type 300 and on to my VFH via Seatalk 1/NEMA0183.

 

This is exactly what I am hoping for

 

I upgraded ST1 to STNG to N2K. All my legacy systems work fine. Upgraded to Raymarine MFDs running Lighthouse II. I did not do the upgrade from Lighthouse II to Lighthouse III because the manual said I would lose MFD control of the AutoPilot. My next task is to get the engine gateway to N2K to MFD. Next two weeks!

 

Did you do the seatalk to STNG using one converter per device? On the n2k are you planning to set the engines to Smartcraft and then attach one of the SmartCraft n2k devices?

 

I used one ST1 to STNG converter. Got an extra ST1 junction block, plugged one ST1 cable into that, and connected it to to the existing ST1 network and the STNG converter. Then connected a STNG to N2K cable to/from the STNG converter to the N2K network. That is all working fine. The MFDs can see all the ST1 data.

I am getting the Yacht Devices YDEG-04 connector and associated cables.

 

^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^

I have been updating from a 2001 era Raymarine package to a new Axiom based one. I use the internal GPS from the Axiom, but I get lousy reception where it’s installed at the helm.

I started looking to add a RS150 GPS , but for a little bit more, I can add the AR200 augmented reality sensor. According to RM tech, the AR200 is essentially a RS150 GPS with the AR functions added in. Cost differential is $150.

to get the AR functionality, a camera will need to be added.

 

I got the RS150 for no charge with the stuff I just bought, 2 Axiom pro 12s and DBW autopilot for Volvo IPS. I’ve known the dealer for years and he is the last person on the planet to give anything away, so I’m sure RM is providing them. So maybe some pushback might help. BTW, the Garmin unit I installed for engine gauges does not have any gps issues. If you aren’t ties to RM, it might be worth considering.

 

Both my e-series MFDs have built-in GPS and both work fine. As does the GPS in the new DSC vhf radio. Perhaps the Axiom you got has a bad GPS.

 

I started planning an electronics upgrade last spring after we bought the new boat, even then I was told that the Axiom Pro had issues with potentially poor gps reception and that RM was supplying external gps devices as a warranty solution. I was told the issue showed up on installations where the display was flush mounted into the helm. At the time it wasn’t (and still isn’t) an issue because the existing external gps is working. That said, I do intend to have the freebie installed.

 

I decided to do the autopilot for both the reasons you mentioned, although in our case there is a third factor to consider. Both the existing AP and upgrade plug directly into the Volvo electronics. The engines,throttles, pods and steering are all controlled by the Volvo EVC system, their version of Smartcraft. It is a true fly by wire, although RM prefers Drive By Wire. I wanted to ensure the navigational commands would travel to the maneuvering system with the fewest possible glitches.

On the GPS thing you might press RM to comp you the gps under warranty because it sounds like it does not function properly. We don’t have covered slips up here so I have no feel for whether it’s normal to have slow sat acquisition on start up. If it’s not push for a rs150 gratis.

 

I decided to do the autopilot for both the reasons you mentioned, although in our case there is a third factor to consider. Both the existing AP and upgrade plug directly into the Volvo electronics. The engines,throttles, pods and steering are all controlled by the Volvo EVC system, their version of Smartcraft. It is a true fly by wire, although RM prefers Drive By Wire. I wanted to ensure the navigational commands would travel to the maneuvering system with the fewest possible glitches.

On the GPS thing you might press RM to comp you the gps under warranty because it sounds like it does not function properly. We don’t have covered slips up here so I have no feel for whether it’s normal to have slow sat acquisition on start up. If it’s not push for a rs150 gratis.

I don't think it's just a Ray GPS thing; my Garmin 8616's receive fewer satellites with their integrated GPS than the separate receiver on the bridge roof. Plus with one on the roof and also integrated you have a great redundancy on this critical feature.

 

Do you have the Axiom connected to your legacy SeaTalk network?

 

It’s not connected yet- I wanted to make sure the legacy stuff worked after I pulled out the Navigator. This is how I plan on hooking it up:

 

It’s not connected yet- I wanted to make sure the legacy stuff worked after I pulled out the Navigator. This is how I plan on hooking it up: View attachment 80863

I don’t get the device net cable. STNG from converter should go directly into axiom with a STNG white black spur cable.

I think the best place for you to post your diagram is on the Raymarine support forum at Raymarine.com. They also have a very good FAQ covering compatibility of legacy autopilots like your S2G with Axiom. Some work and some don’t. I found the RM forum a big help, although they can be difficult. BTW if you do use the forum, it is less of a forum, and closer to an email exchange between you and rm customer service with non participating cc parties listening in.

 

Here is my setup. Pretty similar except my backbone to the engine room for the engine monitoring.
For ST, I just daisy chained them together.
The Raymarine 120 GPS puck came in 2 flavors. Seatalk, or NMEA 183. Look at the wire colors at the end. Also, the top of the GPS says what it is, I think. Been many years since I looked at it.

 

SUCCESS! Installed the Axiom today along with the STng converter per the diagram I posted earlier- only difference is I left the SR navigator “black box” installed with the original Sea Ray transducer and GPS still connected. The Axiom is getting ALL data from the original equipment! Including depth! Eventually I will install a new GPS receiver and a pair of RV transducers to take advantage of the Axiom and then remove the rest of the SR navigator, but for now it’s running better than I had hoped. Couldn’t believe I’m actually getting depth. Many said it wouldn’t work, but it does!

 

Congrats on the install. You’ll like the Axiom Series. The LH3 firmware isn’t completely fleshed out, but RM is actively updating and adding features.

RM networking can be a little confusing, but I have found that RM has thought out the migration paths pretty well, and you can do a phased implementation fairly easily keeping that that works and upgrading what you need.

 

I am about to hook up my RS 150 GPS antenna to my gs165 via a STNG 5 way connector block that is the central part of the STNG starter kit. The question is. do I need to provide power to the connector block to power the antenna or will power to the antenna be provided by the gs165 NEMA 2000 port I'm connecting the antenna to? I'm not clear as to whether or not I will need to use the Ray Net ports to eventually integrate the NEMA 0183 data from the Diesel View or will all the data be delivered thru the STNG NEMA 2000 system. It would be nice if there was a good instruction manual on this stuff. I sure appreciate all of the data available on this site that TTMOTT and others have provided and its getting a little clearer each day as to the direction I need to go but boy, what a chore. It seems like there would be a market for a manual or app written by an installer that would allow you to input all of your equipment you are trying to integrate and out puts a parts list of all of the adapters, cables, terminators ect you need to make it all work. Perhaps there are just too many variants.
Thanks to all that share their experience and OJT expertise.
Carpe Diem

 

Here is my final wiring diagram for now. (I picked up a 12” Axiom but I’m not going to install it until I upgrade my radar) From what I have read, the STng backbone requires its own separate power source. If you connect an AP, you have to disconnect the red wire from the ST1 cable. Not sure why, but it works.

 

I am going through an upgrade situation too, but instead I am changing Classic E screens to Axiom & Axiom Pro S. In constructing the new system I am using the same "5 Way STNG connectors" A06064, but three of them. Also two HS5 switches for the network. I was under the impression that the 5 way connectors must be powered, either independently (and balancing the draw) or through an Evolution autopilot ACU-200 (or higher). I have chosen the former. My AR200 GPS/stabilizer is powered through the STNG blocks. The screens are powered independently but linked to both the STNG system with A06075 adapters and also to the (powered) RayNet HS5 switches. I have abandoned the old NMEA 0183 components.
I have found the Raymarine forum to be excellent. All questions are answered within a day by excellent moderators. So between CSR and Raymarine Forum, I have been able to get the answers so far. Good luck on your project!

 

Thanks, I'm going to the boat now to install the STNG connector and clean up my power distribution buss. Ill post my results. I have yet to consult the Raymarine forum. Between BWM, Corvette, Ram, Yacht Forum and CSR I'm getting kinda forumed out!

 

Power - STNG networks like nmea2000 are powered. The specifics of the situation are the answer. There can only be one power connection to the network. Look at the attached photo:

This is of two converter blocks, there is an additional nmea2000 backbone out of view. From the left is a blue terminating resistor. There needs to be two, one on each extreme end. There is a matching resistor on the extreme end of the nmea2000 backbone.

The next port with the white tracer wire and white cap is a spur cable. It is connecting a device

Raymarine color codes the cables. Ray cables of different colors are different from one another, unlike nmea2000 where all cables are the same. Same color wire tracer to cap, with two exceptions. One, the yellow cap takes a white wire that has been mechanically attached to a nmea0183 device. In our case a raystar 125 gps. The other exception is a red tracer (power connection) that goes to a white port.

The blue ports and tracers are to connect the connection blocks, or other networks. When two networks are connected there still can only be one power tap. That may not work with something like mine a STNG <> nmea2000 connection. In that case a special cable needs to be created that does not pass power from one to the other. The resistors are on the data circuit, so these need to be one on each far end regardless of the type of network.

With my setup everything on nmea2000 can be seen on STNG and vice verse.

 

Well I feel like I've got some momentum finally on this networking deal. I installed the STNG starter kit which consists of a five way STNG connector block. I added power to it from the main electronics buss and then ran a spur cable to the gs165 MFD and to the new RS 150 GPS antenna, so now I have GPS to my MFD. I am getting Depth data from the original transducer to the MFD thru the 0183 connection via a Raymarine E85001 Interface which has Seatalk connections that used to connect to the E120. I am wondering if I can use this to convert 0183 to Seatalk and then connect to a Seatalk > STNG converter?
Has anyone seen this done? my goal is to see the engine data on the MFD thru the 0183 out of the VV.
Carpe Diem

 

CD,

if your VV is the same vintage as the one on my 280, the nmea0183 connection is one way with data (nav related) flowing into the VV. You would need export to get engine info on the Raymarine.

In any event, You would be better off using the STNG Raymarine ECI-100 engine gateway connected directly to the engines (if it supports your engines). You have VesselView, so the electronic data is there even though VV won’t export it. If the ECI-100 won’t work there are a number of generic devices that might although that would require building a mini nmea2000 network attached to the STNG. I would imagine Cummins has their own interface device as well.

The main difference between STNG and nmea 2000 is that STNG cabling is built with extra wires to support SeaTalk devices, so it’s just a case of getting the right connector hardware.

In my case we have a Volvo gateway that feeds the nmea2000 net that in turn feeds a Garmin 7608 that is a dedicated engine display and a Fusion stereo, as well as the STNG net that currently feeds engine data to the two E120W displays (soon to be replaced with twin Axiom Pros). Gps and depth data in turn come out of the STNG net into the nmea2000 to the Garmin.

 

CD,

if your VV is the same vintage as the one on my 280, the nmea0183 connection is one way with data (nav related) flowing into the VV. You would need export to get engine info on the Raymarine.

In any event, You would be better off using the STNG Raymarine ECI-100 engine gateway connected directly to the engines (if it supports your engines). You have VesselView, so the electronic data is there even though VV won’t export it. If the ECI-100 won’t work there are a number of generic devices that might although that would require building a mini nmea2000 network attached to the STNG. I would imagine Cummins has their own interface device as well.

The main difference between STNG and nmea 2000 is that STNG cabling is built with extra wires to support SeaTalk devices, so it’s just a case of getting the right connector hardware.

In my case we have a Volvo gateway that feeds the nmea2000 net that in turn feeds a Garmin 7608 that is a dedicated engine display and a Fusion stereo, as well as the STNG net that currently feeds engine data to the two E120W displays (soon to be replaced with twin Axiom Pros). Gps and depth data in turn come out of the STNG net into the nmea2000 to the Garmin.

Thanks Henry, I ultimately figured that I would run a back bone up from the engine room thru the salon to eventually integrate the entire boat. Ill look into what Smart Craft has to offer as an interface. I appreciate the input.
CD

 

Thanks for the input and guidance Tom and Henry. Looks like I'm close to getting where I need to be. I would like to avoid for now running the Backbone all the way from the engine room if I can tie into the helm harness. I still have the original version of Smart Craft DV.
Cheers CD

 

Just an observation - you will have well over a boat-buck in the parts and pieces to get and convert the J1939.
The Smartcraft to NMEA 2000 converters are not cheap either....
Maybe time to change the DV to VV??
The only down side is that change will loose CAN 3 (Mercury deleted support for CAN 3 when VV came out) which is your generator's data if your boat has that option.

 

Thanks for the in depth explanation. As stated before lots of knowledge here.

In addition to my comments to Carpe Diem, this summer when I did the upgrade on my boat I purchased a gateway locally as I live in Florida and thought it would be faster than shipping cross country. Wrong! I purchased one that needed the re-flashing.
I called Mercury service to get this taken care of and they did not know what I was talking about and wanted me to do all kinds of test before they would even talk to me. I sent it back for a refund and called Cory to purchase one from Seaboard which was on the truck to Florida that day and working correctly on my boat in about 5 days.

 

Thanks for the in depth explanation. As stated before lots of knowledge here.

In addition to my comments to Carpe Diem, this summer when I did the upgrade on my boat I purchased a gateway locally as I live in Florida and thought it would be faster than shipping cross country. Wrong! I purchased one that needed the re-flashing.
I called Mercury service to get this taken care of and they did not know what I was talking about and wanted me to do all kinds of test before they would even talk to me. I sent it back for a refund and called Cory to purchase one from Seaboard which was on the truck to Florida that day and working correctly on my boat in about 5 days.

Corey know his stuff, he sold me a Medusa harness to fix a glitch I had after I’d did my 1000 hr cooling system Mx. I was sure it couldn’t be the harness but I was wrong! Glad we have them as a resource.
CD

 

Actually no, We were going to use it as a trouble shooting lab when we got to that unit which incidentally we would be in the middle of now. This Covid 19 deal has thrown a monkey wrench in plans now though as we have had to go to a distance learning protocol to keep the students on track to earning their certificates. When we come back in May (fingers crossed) we will resume the level three instruction and see if we can get to the bottom of it.
Stay well
CD

 

Update on Network install. I bought a NEMA 2000 Gateway for the Smartcraft EDM and integrated it via my STNG backbone to my gs165. I fired it up and the MFD displayed all of my engine data as expected except for one glitch. My Starboard fuel tank quantity is not displaying data. The Gateway is plugged into the Starboard junction box at the helm as directed. Has anyone had this problem? A friend installed the same gateway and has the same display with the same issue. His attempts to correct it has resulted in Mercruiser and Raymarine pointing fingers at each other.

 

I'm so done with the Covid 19 subject. I'm going to get back to my Network Crisis instead.
After networking the Mercruiser NEMA Gateway to the STNG backbone I found that for some reason the Fuel quantity data is not displaying for the STRBD tank. Port tank is reading % of full accurately. I queried the Raymarine forum and found out that I need to analyze the data with an Actisense NGT-1 gateway to figure out if the PGN 127505 Instance IDs and Fuel type are transmitting properly. DOes anyone here have experience using this device? I'm not looking forward to spending several hundered bucks on hardware and soft ware to figure out that all I needed to do was go to some setting screen on the mfd that would do the same thing. Anybody?
Also, according to Raymarine the tank quantity sensors need to NEMA 2000 capable and programmed appropriately. Im assuming that since the Port tank is working, the senders are compliant but possibly the STRBD tank is just not configured properly?
I'm hoping TTMOTT might be able to chime in here.
Thanks
Rusty