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With the poor adhesion I would take it all off. It will prevent further peeling from poor prep.

 

Unless I'm wrong boat manufacturers to not apply bottom paint at the factory. Usually a dealer item. Very few dealers do the proper prep work prior to applying bottom paint. I've heard local boat mechanics refer to it as a dealer bottom job. Problem is once poorly applied the only way to correct it is to strip down to gel coat, sand, barrier coat and apply bottom paint all in a timely manor to get them all to adhere to each other. Sounds to me like you got a "dealer bottom job".

 

I hate to say it, but I would remove all bottom paint. Then barrier coat and bottom paint. Cost is high, but once done barrier coat is worth it. I have also heard of dealers just quickly doing one coat of bottom paint and hence why you have already gone through the ablative. I am not an expert. But you could try to just sand the bottom smooth, put a couple coats on and for short money. If it does not work, well then you know it needs to be stripped down.

 

What he is telling you about the process used at the factory is accurate, mostly. Chemical bonding agents are used to tie the paint to the bottom. Having it fail so quickly is not atypical, but sometimes it does hold up longer than yours did. The problem is that the factory can't sand the bottom in the manufacturing facility because of space and isolation constraints. It is also an expensive effort.

Now for the future, yes, you need to remove the paint and get a surface ready for a mechanical bond for the paint. Typically, that requires sanding or blasting. Then a primer, usually epoxy barrier coating, then new paint is applied.

On a boat your size, I would expect 60 hours labor would be fair, so there is $3500 right there, plus materials. His price is not too far off what I would expect most places to charge.

If you just sand the areas that have failed, use a tie primer, and repaint, you might get a few more years, but maybe not. The other areas could fail this season. Probably would cost less then price in half, but eventually you will likely have to do the big project.

Some manufacturers have pulled their chemical primer for this reason.

 

Yes, the bottom paint probably has to come off. BTW, your vendor is either full of cow poop, or has a brain full of cow poop. I went through this on our 280. The bottom can be soda blasted (same thing as sand blasting, but they use an environmentally neutral soda lime instead of grit). Our 280 was USD $750, my guess a 320 would be sub $ 1500 and closer to $ 1000.00. Epoxy barrier coat was about $ 500.00, for a 320 it would be maybe another $ 200 plus/minus. Ablative bottom paint about $ 200-300. Figure another $ 150 for masking tape and disposable rollers/ brushes. Other than the soda blasting, its just masking and painting. If you can read directions and paint a room you can do this yourself. It took me about a week to do our 280 in terms of duration. On average about an hour to an hour and a half per day because you have to put on a coat, let it cure and come back the next day. Four coats of barrier, and two of bottom is about a week. I did mine in March and the cold weather slowed down the cure time. If you do it in warmer weather you may be able to knock off a coat in the AM and then one later in the day. In any event after the soda blasting there is maybe 10 - 15 man-hours (worst case) in applying the barrier and bottom paint.

Henry

 

Most boat yards have gotten stung on repainting over factory paint, so good ones don't take chances on repaints.

The process used by Sea Ray is a chemical prep to de-gloss and prepare the bottom for spraying a thin coat of antifouling paint. Thin because the EPA won't allow spraying heavy coats due to the airborne contaminants contained in over-spray. The early failure rate on factory bottom paint isn't because the factory cuts corners, cheaps out or prepares the bottom poorly. It is simply because the original owners either try to go too long or just don't know that the original paint only lasts about a year before it gets too thin to protect the bottom. The only solution is to thoroughly sand the bottom. But, removing 100% of the old paint is over-kill. Our dealer (Sea Ray dealer servicing about 150 over 30 ft Sea Rays) typically sands 100% of the bottom with 100 grit paper until about 50% white is showing thru. He has never had an adherence problem and has never had to re-paint because of a failed bond of paint to bottom. They also use only SeaHawk Biocop on gelcoat and Tropicote on hardware.

As far as costs go, Where we are on t he Gulf coast, it costs $8/ft for a haul out if you don't have work done; $5/ft if the haul out if the yard does other work like a gelcoat/fiberglass repairs, seal replacement, etc. A complete bottom job that includes the haul/blocking up and re-launching, sanding as I described, priming the hardware with an epoxy primer, then 3 coats of bottom paint with a 4th coat on the waterline costs $70/ft. A pressure wash is $3.50/ft.

Hope that helps..........

 

Mfor st boat yards have gotten stung on repainting over factory paint, so good ones don't take chances on repaints.

The process used by Sea Ray is a chemical prep to de-gloss and prepare the bottom for spraying a thin coat of antifouling paint. Thin because the EPA won't allow spraying heavy coats due to the airborne contaminants contained in over-spray. The early failure rate on factory bottom paint isn't because the factory cuts corners, cheaps out or prepares the bottom poorly. It is simply because the original owners either try to go too long or just don't know that the original paint only lasts about a year before it gets too thin to protect the bottom. The only solution is to thoroughly sand the bottom. But, removing 100% of the old paint is over-kill. Our dealer (Sea Ray dealer servicing about 150 over 30 ft Sea Rays) typically sands 100% of the bottom with 100 grit paper until about 50% white is showing thru. He has never had an adherence problem and has never had to re-paint because of a failed bond of paint to bottom. They also use only SeaHawk Biocop on gelcoat and Tropicote on hardware.

As far as costs go, Where we are on t he Gulf coast, it costs $8/ft for a haul out if you don't have work done; $5/ft if the haul out if the yard does other work like a gelcoat/fiberglass repairs, seal replacement, etc. A complete bottom job that includes the haul/blocking up and re-launching, sanding as I described, priming the hardware with an epoxy primer, then 3 coats of bottom paint with a 4th coat on the waterline costs $70/ft. A pressure wash is $3.50/ft.

Hope that helps..........

Frank, thanks as always fir the input. Just out of curiosity do you think that you need a barrier coat? Also do you know what paint sea ray uses?

Dave

 

You shouldn't need a barrier coat until you get a bunch of blisters. That is very rare on Sea Ray hulls made with vinylester resins. Applying an epoxy barrier coat is expensive and is a big pay day for a boat yard so it would take a bad case of osmotoc blistering to get me to barrier coat my boat.....which, by the way is a '96 model and I have yet to have the first blister. I have had to repair 2 small voids, but no blisters.

The last time I walked thru one of the Sea Ray factories they were using a water based antifouling paint. Whatever they use does a good job for about a year, but it is applied very thinly, thanks to the EPA, and is an ablative paint so it only lasts about a year.

 

Thank you for the answer. I recently had a new sea ray and after a year I sanded the bottom with 80 grit (not 50% but enough to get a good surface for new paint to stick) and then applied 1 coat red ablative and then 1 coat black. It has been 2 seasons since and I am starting to see red.. hence time to paint again. Just curious as to what was originally applied and ?future barrier coats if it would ever be necessary.

Dave

 

Thanks everyone. I watched the boat arrive on the truck brand new and it had factory bottom paint on it. When the boat was pulled out, the vendor went over the bottom very carefully looking for signs of blisters or other below-the-waterline problems. He said I have a great bottom and it just needs to be totally repainted. He said he would try sand blasting it with walnut shells (true) but that even if it worked, the entire bottom still needs sanding with 80 grit to stick. He estimated 80 hours of work to do everything. Heck, it seems like $5 to $6K is in the ballpark. Lesson learned is don't buy a factory new boat with bottom paint right? Thanks again everyone.

 

Sorry, find a new vendor. He either knows better and is lying to you, or does not know better and is incompetent. After proper blasting the last thing you will need is sanding "to make the paint stick". Blasting, even with a mild abrasive, will leave a profile of little pockets that will anchor the paint. That is why blasting is the pant prep of choice, it not only cleans impurities and old paint, but also leaves a surface ready to receive paint. Personally I feel soda is a better choice as it has a better environmental impact and a quick wash down when done with a hose removes any residual.

Henry

 

I did complete bottom paint jobs on three sea rays. The first was with walnut shells and two more with soda blasting. All produced good results. One boat was done without a barrier coat and that worked well. The other was a VC product that was a barrier coat (kind of a tar based paint) and the top coat was a very thin copper based top coat. That worked as well. The key is to get good prep. Paints depend on your water conditions. Follow the directions on the can and use a high quality paint suited to your water conditions.

As an aside, Tiara does a thorough prep at the factory and supplies a gallon of bottom paint (for 32 Opens) that the dealer applies to the boat when it is sold. My 2004 still does not need a bottom paint job. It has ablative paint that goes about three years. We have it lightly sanded and refreshed then. We refresh the smile and water line annually due to acid washing in the fall that discolors the part of the paint that you can see.

 

Hey M1884,

Have you thought of doing the work yourself? Yep it would require some time and effort, but then you know it was done right, or do the touch up your self. SR has a record of your boat when you bought it and they should be able to tell you what brand and kind of bottom paint was applied. As you run the river, your paint should last longer than those in salt.

Here was my adventure in bottom painting on a older SR. I did use InterLux and the 2000E.

http://clubsearay.com/showthread.php/24963-300DB-Restoration-Continues-Bottom-Paint