What sort of fuel economy are you seeing at what speeds? I am thinking of getting this boat and the dealer told me I did not want to think about these boats with gas...I cannot imagine that the story is really that bad??? I am thinking a cruise of 20 kts and consumption of 35 GPH? What are real world owners finding? Any guidance would be appreciated.
Overextended
Last week I made a 460 mile round trip from central NJ to the Baltimore Inner Harbor (BIH) with a stop in Wildwood NJ on the way down and a stop in Atlantic City on the way up. I made the trip with a gas powered 2005 390DA with canvas top. My 410DA Diesel powered boat "needed" to fuel once in BIH. However, the 390DA needed 3 fuel stops. The 390's home dock is about 30 miles south of mine so his total roundtrip was approximately 400 miles. I don't have the exact numbers in front of me, but from memory, I burned 450 Gallons of Diesel and he burned 550 Gallons of Gasoline. Keep in mind that the 390 went 60 miles less and paid on average $.70 more per gallon for fuel.
I owned a 2002 380DA with 8.1 just last season, and the burn rate of the 390DA is very similar.
Hope this helps.
I owned a 2002 380DA with 8.1 just last season, and the burn rate of the 390DA is very similar.
Hope this helps.
Flettis, I go ~24 MPH turning ~3600 RPM burning ~36 GPH. It's exactly .67 MPG and I get that full/empty, under most conditions. I was doing some calculations and it basically costs me about $5.00 per mile to run the boat where if it had diesels it would cost about half that per mile. Having just run a diesel powered boat (a sea trial on a 44DB) for the first time, I can see why the diesel crowd is so "enthusiastic" about their engine choice. I don't regret my choice because I got such a good deal, but I think you should seriously consider diesels on anything bigger than a 38 (really a 360.)
I do not have the Sundancer, but I do have the 36 Sedan Bridge with 8.1 Gas guzzlers. I normally run about 3500 RPM and cruise at 22 MPH burning about 36 gallons per hour. The 36 bridge is about 3000 lbs. heavier (i think) than the 38 or 40 Dancer....so that will equate to less favorable gas mileage for mine....but I hope this helps you.
The other aspect to consider is resale. Diesel boats cost more up front, but fetch more at sales time. I have owned both a gas 320 and diesel 420 and I will not go back to gas. The torque, ease of maintenace, economy, and pleasure of running a diesel boat all carry the day for me. Your manner of use, hours run per season, etc. will all factor in your decision.
regards
Skip
regards
Skip
Wow....
The 480 DB I have goes about 30-32 mph at 50 GPH and about 26 mph at 40 GPH.... .60 - .66 mpg at cruise... on fuel that is about a buck a gallon cheaper. 40,000 pounds empty but probably about 46,000 pounds with dinghy, fuel, wife's shoes, etc.
I had a 2001 380 DA gas boat. It just was too big, IMO, for gas but I use my boat a lot so that may be a difference.
The 480 DB I have goes about 30-32 mph at 50 GPH and about 26 mph at 40 GPH.... .60 - .66 mpg at cruise... on fuel that is about a buck a gallon cheaper. 40,000 pounds empty but probably about 46,000 pounds with dinghy, fuel, wife's shoes, etc.
I had a 2001 380 DA gas boat. It just was too big, IMO, for gas but I use my boat a lot so that may be a difference.
I think the question is this: will you hold to 24 knots? I usually went a little faster in my 380, and paid for it in consumption.
Also, in flat seas, the above numbers are good. Add a 3-4 foot sea, and you can add 10 gallons per hour, which is very important to remember for range calculations.
Add 6 foot seas, and add about 15 gph. The boat handles the sea conditions, but it burns a hell of a lot of gas when things turn chippy.
Also, in flat seas, the above numbers are good. Add a 3-4 foot sea, and you can add 10 gallons per hour, which is very important to remember for range calculations.
Add 6 foot seas, and add about 15 gph. The boat handles the sea conditions, but it burns a hell of a lot of gas when things turn chippy.
You think chippy is bad, you should have seen the chop kicked up by the 23+ knot winds we had to cruise 60 NM into Saturday.
We literally rocked so hard we periodically heard the windward exhaust (well set under the bottom of the boat). When we parked at the island, the A/C showed an error - overpressure. I had to re-prime the pump as if we had pulled the boat out of the water!!!!!!!!! I guess we kind of had.
We literally rocked so hard we periodically heard the windward exhaust (well set under the bottom of the boat). When we parked at the island, the A/C showed an error - overpressure. I had to re-prime the pump as if we had pulled the boat out of the water!!!!!!!!! I guess we kind of had.
Interesting article Gas v diesel
Hi All,
you can have a read of this
http://www.yachtsurvey.com/GasNdiesel.htm
Fuel in my area... Gas prices drop $1.00 gallon below
diesel prices
OZZIE
Hi All,
you can have a read of this
http://www.yachtsurvey.com/GasNdiesel.htm
Fuel in my area... Gas prices drop $1.00 gallon below
diesel prices
OZZIE
Re: Interesting article Gas v diesel
Ozzie, you can't mention that guy here on CSR :grin: Besides he wrote that in 1998 which gas prices here averaged 1.03 a gallon.Ozzie-iv said:
says I have found good solid advice for ________ (enter boat name here)____.diesel v gas
oops didn't know.
Yep its an oldy but a goody..the principals are much the same.
Fuel(1st AUG 2007) pay around $1.30 AUD per litre for gas
$1.39 diesel
($1.3 X 3.8)=$4.94 AUD per gallon ( 1 aud= 0.85US) or $4.199US per gallon
last week gas only $4.25AUD gallon or $3.61US
I have noticed recently (because a friend really liked my 400 db) he has been looking at importing a 400db as well but he is looking at diesel and has shown me a few. The pricing has only been marginal from the one I purchased (I have gas engines but had only done 64 hrs)
so on the face of it I am not sure from my observation you get the same difference when purchased new.
I calculated that it would take me 400hrs at cruising speed of 20knots to break even ( if I had purchased diesel)
if I cruise at 8-10 knots I use 10 gallons per hour (2000rpm) but it only takes 20 minutes to get to this spot (storm overhead with setting sun highlighting the boats) Place is called"The basin" in Pittwater north of sydney
OZZIE
oops didn't know.
Yep its an oldy but a goody..the principals are much the same.
Fuel(1st AUG 2007) pay around $1.30 AUD per litre for gas
$1.39 diesel
($1.3 X 3.8)=$4.94 AUD per gallon ( 1 aud= 0.85US) or $4.199US per gallon
last week gas only $4.25AUD gallon or $3.61US
I have noticed recently (because a friend really liked my 400 db) he has been looking at importing a 400db as well but he is looking at diesel and has shown me a few. The pricing has only been marginal from the one I purchased (I have gas engines but had only done 64 hrs)
so on the face of it I am not sure from my observation you get the same difference when purchased new.
I calculated that it would take me 400hrs at cruising speed of 20knots to break even ( if I had purchased diesel)
if I cruise at 8-10 knots I use 10 gallons per hour (2000rpm) but it only takes 20 minutes to get to this spot (storm overhead with setting sun highlighting the boats) Place is called"The basin" in Pittwater north of sydney
OZZIE
Attachments
Some of Pascoe's principles are the same but many of his assumptions are invalid.
Worst of all, using that article as a foot print for your own personal analysis means that you completely overlook quality of investment in making a critical decision. When you consider that and are talking about a high demand boat, I can cite examples where the diesel option was free.
Worst of all, using that article as a foot print for your own personal analysis means that you completely overlook quality of investment in making a critical decision. When you consider that and are talking about a high demand boat, I can cite examples where the diesel option was free.
I have been on both sides of the Gas vs Diesel discussion. The arguement that you have to run X-amount of hours to justify diesel shouldn't be the end of the discussion.
Using my "real world numbers" (which I posted in another thread) I am averaging 17 GPH of $2.60/gal Diesel in a 410DA. I averaged approximately 32 GPH of $3.50/gal Gasoline in my 380DA last season. Using an average season of 75 hours (I already have 53 hours on the clock this season) I will burn 1275 gal of diesel for a total of $3315. My 380DA would have burned 2400 gal of gasoline for a total of $8400. The difference in fuel cost would have been $5085 annualy or $425 per month on average (savings). That $425 per month in fuel savings just about pays the extra monthly payment on the average loan difference between a Diesel equipped 40DA vs a Gasoline equipped 40DA......AND....at resale, you will most likely recoup the entire difference as the Diesel boat will certainly retain more value than the gas boat.
Please....I am not bashing Gas boats....I'm just adding another twist to the discussion....
Using my "real world numbers" (which I posted in another thread) I am averaging 17 GPH of $2.60/gal Diesel in a 410DA. I averaged approximately 32 GPH of $3.50/gal Gasoline in my 380DA last season. Using an average season of 75 hours (I already have 53 hours on the clock this season) I will burn 1275 gal of diesel for a total of $3315. My 380DA would have burned 2400 gal of gasoline for a total of $8400. The difference in fuel cost would have been $5085 annualy or $425 per month on average (savings). That $425 per month in fuel savings just about pays the extra monthly payment on the average loan difference between a Diesel equipped 40DA vs a Gasoline equipped 40DA......AND....at resale, you will most likely recoup the entire difference as the Diesel boat will certainly retain more value than the gas boat.
Please....I am not bashing Gas boats....I'm just adding another twist to the discussion....
Another factor to consider is that the diesel boat will likely cruise at a higher speed. Another real world example of my last boat, a 36' Carver with 8.1s an my current boat with diesels:
The old boat cruised at 23 knots and burned (on average as measured by fuel consumed / hours ran) 26 GPH.
The new boat cruises at 26 knots and burns (by the exact same measure) 21 GPH.
I prefer to look at this on a dollars per mile basis because we don't wake up and say "let's run the boat an hour today" we say let's go to Annapolis today. The number of miles to Annapolis doesn't change based upon GPH, MPG or knots anything else.
The old boat at 23 knots and 26 GPH and an average fuel price (based upon fuel log from last year) of $3.50, translates into a $/nm of $3.95 [(26/23)*3.50=3.95]
And the new boat at 26 knots and 21 GPH and an average fuel price of $2.50 (based upon this year's fuel log), translates into a $/nm of $2.02 [(21/26)*2.50=2.02]
So, basically it costs us almost half as much to run this bigger boat at a higher speed. As I tell me wife... the more we run, the more we save.
P.S., I am also not "anti-gas", I'm just providing the math.
The old boat cruised at 23 knots and burned (on average as measured by fuel consumed / hours ran) 26 GPH.
The new boat cruises at 26 knots and burns (by the exact same measure) 21 GPH.
I prefer to look at this on a dollars per mile basis because we don't wake up and say "let's run the boat an hour today" we say let's go to Annapolis today. The number of miles to Annapolis doesn't change based upon GPH, MPG or knots anything else.
The old boat at 23 knots and 26 GPH and an average fuel price (based upon fuel log from last year) of $3.50, translates into a $/nm of $3.95 [(26/23)*3.50=3.95]
And the new boat at 26 knots and 21 GPH and an average fuel price of $2.50 (based upon this year's fuel log), translates into a $/nm of $2.02 [(21/26)*2.50=2.02]
So, basically it costs us almost half as much to run this bigger boat at a higher speed. As I tell me wife... the more we run, the more we save.
P.S., I am also not "anti-gas", I'm just providing the math.
Hijacked
I think this string has really turned into a gas vs the big D debate again. That is not really what I had in mind at all...I am sorry --- but it is good to see all the lively opinions on the matter.
The reason I am asking, is because I like the 39/40...I cannot afford the big D...can only afford the boat with the gas. What I really wanted to know from folks who have this exact boat is what sort of GPH at what MPH they were getting. I have had two dealers tell me that I should avoid this boat in gas (even though almost everyone of them on the market is gas). They have said to avoid it b/c even if I can afford it they felt it was an underpowered boat with poor fuel burn (due to the unique hall...which is why I was wondering of the folks on this board, who have the boat; do they feel that these items are true or not).
I would love the size of the new 39/40, but if I am burning 40-50 GPH to cruise...then I would not buy it. I would look at the new 38 or even the 36 Sedan again. Also from what I have seen on the 36 Sedan...the boat's fuel economy is no where near as bleak as the dealers have stated I would see with the same engines on the 39/40 DA...even though the 39/40 DA is a lighter boat (because of this hull design issue).
So great debate...but I feel like I still don't have the answer I was looking for...
I think this string has really turned into a gas vs the big D debate again. That is not really what I had in mind at all...I am sorry --- but it is good to see all the lively opinions on the matter.
The reason I am asking, is because I like the 39/40...I cannot afford the big D...can only afford the boat with the gas. What I really wanted to know from folks who have this exact boat is what sort of GPH at what MPH they were getting. I have had two dealers tell me that I should avoid this boat in gas (even though almost everyone of them on the market is gas). They have said to avoid it b/c even if I can afford it they felt it was an underpowered boat with poor fuel burn (due to the unique hall...which is why I was wondering of the folks on this board, who have the boat; do they feel that these items are true or not).
I would love the size of the new 39/40, but if I am burning 40-50 GPH to cruise...then I would not buy it. I would look at the new 38 or even the 36 Sedan again. Also from what I have seen on the 36 Sedan...the boat's fuel economy is no where near as bleak as the dealers have stated I would see with the same engines on the 39/40 DA...even though the 39/40 DA is a lighter boat (because of this hull design issue).
So great debate...but I feel like I still don't have the answer I was looking for...
Flettis-
Sorry to contribute to the derailing of your thread. I hope, however, that the numbers I provided on my previous experience with those engines (8.1s) can provide some context. I know my previous boat was a lowly Carver, but I wouldn't think that hull form, etc. would make THAT much difference... for what it's worth, I ran the engines at 3600 RPM. I'm sure that "cruising" GPH was pretty well up into the 40s (I did not have flo-scans), but the overall GPH was 26.
Sorry to contribute to the derailing of your thread. I hope, however, that the numbers I provided on my previous experience with those engines (8.1s) can provide some context. I know my previous boat was a lowly Carver, but I wouldn't think that hull form, etc. would make THAT much difference... for what it's worth, I ran the engines at 3600 RPM. I'm sure that "cruising" GPH was pretty well up into the 40s (I did not have flo-scans), but the overall GPH was 26.
Hey Flettis...
If you decide to look into the 36 Bridge again....let me know. I am anxious to have another 36 Bridge owner on this board to compare notes! In all honesty though, the 36 Bridge at cruise is not too bad (36 gallons per hour) on gas. Probably would have preferred the diesels after reading all the gas VS Diesel threads....but not one dealer had the boat in stock with diesels....so it makes me think the gas was more marketable for the dealers with the 36 bridge.
If you decide to look into the 36 Bridge again....let me know. I am anxious to have another 36 Bridge owner on this board to compare notes! In all honesty though, the 36 Bridge at cruise is not too bad (36 gallons per hour) on gas. Probably would have preferred the diesels after reading all the gas VS Diesel threads....but not one dealer had the boat in stock with diesels....so it makes me think the gas was more marketable for the dealers with the 36 bridge.
B-rock -
I had wanted to look at the 36 Bridges also. But, I was told that they couldn't get them with diesels, at least not for awhile. The dealers all ordered them with gas engines, mostly due to cost. Putting diesels in there priced it out of the market.
I had wanted to look at the 36 Bridges also. But, I was told that they couldn't get them with diesels, at least not for awhile. The dealers all ordered them with gas engines, mostly due to cost. Putting diesels in there priced it out of the market.
The dealer here has a 36 bridge boat with diesels...
http://www.browningsmarine.com/sear....aspx?diid=985875&bvdid=1481&type=N&indid=1&sortCol=Length&sortDir=DESC&page=1&
http://www.browningsmarine.com/sear....aspx?diid=985875&bvdid=1481&type=N&indid=1&sortCol=Length&sortDir=DESC&page=1&
Just a few observations I've made. 390/40 DA with Gas Engines (8.1 HO) will move right out but at 40+GPH. You'll be able to run with the big boys but you're going to pay.
When you buy you'll need to figure that when you finance it's $7-8 per month per thousand. With diesels you'll save on fuel but can you afford another $300-400 per month in payments plus the additional maintenance.
Big gas boats tend to sit around with for-sale signs on them for a long time. There are several 370- 400-410 gas boats around our marina that have been for sale for at least two years and I'm not biting. Find me a well maintained diesel 380-400 and I'm there.
When you buy you'll need to figure that when you finance it's $7-8 per month per thousand. With diesels you'll save on fuel but can you afford another $300-400 per month in payments plus the additional maintenance.
Big gas boats tend to sit around with for-sale signs on them for a long time. There are several 370- 400-410 gas boats around our marina that have been for sale for at least two years and I'm not biting. Find me a well maintained diesel 380-400 and I'm there.
I have experience with the 380 sundancer, the 40 sundancer and the 44 sundancer with the 8.1 horizons. At 3450 rpm you will be getting 21 mph and burning 30 gph which translates in to .7 mpg. The 380 and 40 sundancer are the same dimensions and weight but the 44 sundancer weighs about 2500 lbs more and is wider and I still mangage to keep the same .7 mpg. On a gas engine the cruise speed is about 75% of wot. Since the max rpm for the 8.1 horizon is 4600 rpm, that 75% figure translates to 3450 rpm. In my experience this engine speed produced the best fuel economy on all three boats.
My top speed at wot was 34 mph on the 380 and the 40, and the top speed on the 44 is 33 mph.
bluebelly
07 44 sundancer
My top speed at wot was 34 mph on the 380 and the 40, and the top speed on the 44 is 33 mph.
bluebelly
07 44 sundancer
Made the jump after researching this ad nauseam and taking into account all of our local factors.
Anyone happen to have good numbers for the 8.1 HO for WOT and best cruise, or where I might find the information?
Thanks in advance...
Anyone happen to have good numbers for the 8.1 HO for WOT and best cruise, or where I might find the information?
Thanks in advance...
Cabin A/C Filter
Anyone out there that can give me a hint as to how I can access the unit and filter? The one that is under the stairs and behind the fridge...
I've been hitting it with the beam vac, but I really want to get at it properly.
I'm at wits end with this one.
Anyone out there that can give me a hint as to how I can access the unit and filter? The one that is under the stairs and behind the fridge...
I've been hitting it with the beam vac, but I really want to get at it properly.
I'm at wits end with this one.
I realize this is an old thread, but I thought I would post some information per my smartcraft from a Lake Michigan cruise we just finished. Generally, when on the lake I tried to maintain 25 mph which was in the 3700 to 3750 rpm range.
Hours 23.02
Miles 385.4
Gallons 556.2
mpg .693
The water was about 3/4 full the whole time and my wife packed clothes and wine for a month or two to cover the 12 days we were gone.
This was from my slip and back, so its all idling waiting for the fuel dock to clear, no wake zones, etc.
Hours 23.02
Miles 385.4
Gallons 556.2
mpg .693
The water was about 3/4 full the whole time and my wife packed clothes and wine for a month or two to cover the 12 days we were gone.
This was from my slip and back, so its all idling waiting for the fuel dock to clear, no wake zones, etc.
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