Honda Generator

charlieft · Nov 18, 2006

Hi,

Anyone ever use a Honda eu2000i generator to power your boat? A friend told me that he used one on his older sea ray and it worked great. He put it on the swim platform and plugged in the shore power chord.
http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/ModelDetail.asp?ModelName=eu2000i

I'm thinking of doing it ...

-Charlie

First Born · Nov 18, 2006

Charlie, if you decide to still do it after you get done reading all the responses that you are going to get on this topic, please put me on your will.

Wesley

chuck1 · Nov 18, 2006

Charlie

As Wesley said get ready for some rough comments. It all boils down to using a lot of common sense with it. ie:Make sure you know which way the wind is blowing so you don't end up with Carbon Dioxide poisoning, Make sure you don't have any shorts, etc. I've got a 1000i I use from time to time on my 240.

fwebster · Nov 18, 2006

I swore I was not going to participate in another discussion on this, but I cannot let with go with only 1/3 the caution needed.

Even though it is a substantial risk, CO is not the only issue with portable generators on a boat. The fuel systems on Honda's and others are vented to the atmosphere and their carburetors have a bowl drain that releases fuel inside the generator case. That means where you run it, store it or put it under way will have gasoline fumes released in the area and if the bowl drain leaks, you have raw fuel spilled.

The electrical components on portables are not ignition protected like marine generator electrical components are.

Portable generators pose an additional shock hazard since the portable is not grounded to the boat or to a shore side ground. Likely not a problem with a drill or power tool, but if you connect it to your boat's AC system, you have essentially disconnected the green wire.

The USCG governs only boat manufacturers and the manufacturers voluntarily subscribe to ABYC guidelines, so there is no "law" against using portable generators on boats. However, both the USCG and ABYC say using portable generators on boat is a bad idea and regularly caution boaters against it.

In spite of the fact that Honda says that boating is a popular use of their generators, They have not addressed the grounding, gas fume and ignition protection issues and those concerns still exist.

While accidents may be rare, you do substantially increase your risk of becoming a "statistic" when using a portable generator on a boat.......you put your family at unnecessary risk when you do.

charlieft · Nov 18, 2006

Evidently this topic has been wrung out before...maybe in the SRO forum? (I searched this forum for "portable generator" and only found one post.)

I have a CO2 detector on the boat, and I will be running the generator intermittently (not overnight).

I intend to run it on the swim platform where gas fumes should not be a problem while running, but storage will be an issue. I have the same issue with storage for the 3.5hp Johnson OB I use for the tender. I use to keep it right on the deck of my 23wa.

I haven't bought the generator yet. The jury is still out. I just bought a 260 Sundancer and wanted to see if any other sea ray owners use these generators. I found several posts from people using Honda generators on the Hull Truth forum.

Thanks,
Charlie

Dave S · Nov 18, 2006

This is my advice after seeing this subject debated in earnest on SRO.

DON"T USE A PORTABLE GENERATOR ON YOUR BOAT!

They are not safe for a variety of reasons many of which Frank mentioned above. Even if you were to take extra precautions when using one on a boat you are still taking a big chance that something will go wrong.

jrcinnh · Nov 18, 2006

This subject has been debated at length on every boating forum, that I've read. CSR just hasn't got to it yet. There are strong opinions on either side, do your research. Just like everything else, there is a risk versus reward decision that you will have to make.

lorenbennett · Nov 18, 2006

Portable generator

Charlie

Well I have to admit that I to thought of this idea until I let my dealer find out that i was looking at a 240 sundancer. He knows I live in bullhead city, which we all know that it is hotter then ... well you get the point. I do see some folks using portables. They set them up on the beach down wind so that no one comes near it but as noted above between co getting trapped primarily at the rear of most boats (under swim deck) and that they do vent gasoline vapors to atmosphere, they are probably more dangerous when stored because you tend to forget about them and all that gas is sloshing around. My dealer showed me that most insurance company's frown upon stuff like this. Best bet is to upgrade to the 260 or the ex models that come with genset factory installed. just my .02 Happy boating :smt024

out-n-aboat · Nov 19, 2006

There was a bad accident in New Bedford last week on a fishing boat. The crew was power washing their boat, and the generator caused two members of the crew ito be listed in serious condition and one doa. Not a lauging matter.

:smt015 :smt009 :smt100

charlieft · Nov 19, 2006

out-n-aboat said:
There was a bad accident in New Bedford last week on a fishing boat. The crew was power washing their boat, and the generator caused two members of the crew ito be listed in serious condition and one doa. Not a lauging matter.

:smt015 :smt009 :smt100

nobody's laughing, those guys were using a gas powered pressure washer (not a generater) inside a water tank on the boat... that's kind of asking for trouble. I'm not talking about doing anything close to that.
Thanks to all for the advice. I'm going to hold off for now...I've got another 5 months to consider my options anyway. I agree in general, boats can be dangerous if you don't take the proper precautions.
Thanks again,
Charlie

Sea Ray 300 · Nov 19, 2006

Hi Charlie,

I read all of the posts at SRO concerning the subject, and the few responses that you have gotten were the highlights. Pay particular attention to Frank's info. :thumbsup: Most boats in our climate don't have generators. I'm fortunate enough that mine does, although I seldom use it.
What would you use yours for? Would a quality inverter serve your purpose? Appliances and TVs can be had that run on 12 volt. Is it worth the considerable risk of even carrying one around on the swim platform? :huh:
Dealers are bending over backwards right now to sell boats, and a new or fairly new Sea Ray with a genny could be your best option, and could be bought right. I just referred a friend, and he bought a new 28... :wink:

out-n-aboat · Nov 19, 2006

I have to confess I have thought of it before. After reading the posts at sro on the subject I have dismissed the idea.

Dave M. · Nov 21, 2006

Charlie,

I have also been looking at the Honda eu2000i, although for use with my 5th wheel, not really the boat. This is a nice generator, but I think the design is getting dated. I have been trying to wait before buying, hoping that they will improve it, and that CO reduction will be one of the improvements. I have no idea though how many years off a new design is.

However, since plugging my 5th wheel AC cord into my boat AC outlet, and verifying that the boat inverter will start and run the 5th wheel air conditioner, I have also considered going with an inverter in the 5th wheel. It is more expensive, but would give me AC during 'quiet times' at campgrounds with no hookups. It would also free me from having to carry around a gas can to feed the generator, and packing and unpacking the generator each time we move. The same issues and more would apply if I tried to take the generator on the boat.

Dave

Sundancer · Nov 21, 2006

Wouldn't using an inverter suck the juice out of the batteries at a high rate or are you just talking about the initial start up of the A/C Unit to assist the generator? I would think the A/C would run through a battery every half hour or so?

I have a Honda 2000 that will run our A/C below about 3500 feet. Any higher and it just kicks the breaker. It just doesn't quite have enough power to do it. That's making sure EVERYTHING else is off including the battery charger. Once it's running I can carefully turn on some other loads. I've considered getting a second one, but we use it so rarely as it is, it's hard to justify the expense. In retrospect I wish I had bought the Yamaha 2800 or Honda 3000. The 2800 is a little bigger but still manageable. The Honda 3000 is just plain too big to maneuver around.

Dave M. · Nov 21, 2006

Sundancer,

Thanks for pointing out that the Honda 2000 will carry your load at low altitude, but not above 3500 feet. I had not considered that possibility. I know my local dealer will loan me one to see if it will start and run my air conditioner, but I not thought about the altitude effect.

For the last 10 years or so I have used a Honda 1000, but this year gave it to my daughter. I expected to get an eu2000i, but have not yet done so. This would be for the 5th wheel, where I would like to be able to run the AC at times. Also the water heater and coffee pot.

The Honda 3000, if I got that, would stay in the back of the PU when travelling. It is autostart, so that would be nice. It would run any load I put on it, and would not have to worry about turning other things off normally. I would only need to worry about securing it so it couldn't be easily stolen.

The Honda 2000 may be adequate for my load, but you are pointing out it is marginal. But it can be put away out of sight for travel.

A Honda 1000, paired with an inverter, would also work. The inverter could carry the load, and the generator could charge the batteries. If I went the inverter route, I would use 4 batteries, like the boat has. Maybe even the same ones. Skolbe says he uses his inverter to power the air conditioner in his boat.

So if using an inverter, it really is a matter of the air conditioner power draw, duty cycle, the amp-hour (or kW-hr) rating of the battery plant, and your ability to put charge back into the battery. Putting back the charge could come from a generator, plugging into shore power, or the boat alterrnator.

If the air conditioner is running only part time, and not for extended periods of time, it doesn't matter if you can put back electricity as fast as it gets taken out. I had written in another post a few weeks back that I thought that use of an air conditioner was the determining factor of whether you could use an inverter or needed a generator. Then I found out two people on the board are successfully running their air conditioners off an inverter.

So now I am undecided, but I know I really like the convenience of the inverter in the boat. No fussing with getting the generator out, started, switching over circuit breakers, keeping it fed with gas, checking oil, etc.

This thread belongs in the electrical section.

Sundancer · Nov 21, 2006

I guess I should have mentioned I had a 13,500 btu unit in my trailer. The eu2000i can handle the load most of the time, as long as we're not too high in elevation. I'm not exactly sure what elevation it decides it's can't power the A/C, but it's somewhere up there.

I guess your idea of running an inverter would work, depending on all the factors. In the hot Columbia Basin, it would run pretty heavy for about 6 - 8 hours and the only limiting factor would be whether or not the 1000 could keep up with the cycling and draw for those 8 hours? With a good charge and the 1000 running continuously it probably could. At the end of the day, it might be questionable though. With four D sized or group 31's, I guess that might work? Interesting! I just figured it would be easier to have a generator, than worry about the additional weight. I'd LOVE to have one of the 3,000's and just mount it permanently to the back of my pickup or lock it in somehow. That would be a GREAT solution! No worries about current or combination of items like a coffee pot and/or A/C running at the same time. Hmm, I wonder if I could sell my low hour eu2000i and if the Admiral would go for it??? I'd hate to move the 3000 by myself, but my son is getting big enough to assist!

Dave M. · Nov 21, 2006

I think the inverter works for air conditioning only in special situations where you have a lot of battery capacity and a way to recharge every day. Or where you need the AC for only a short period of time. I have never run the AC in my fifth wheel for extended periods of time. I am normally on the road part of the day. Plus I am from the lower Columbia Basin (almost), and like to go where it is cool and I don't need AC.

In the boat the inverter works great, and I don't think I would want to trade it for a generator.

I think a Honda 3000 in the back of a PU would work well. Last year I remember looking at one to get an idea of how it might bolt down, but now don't remember any details. They are as quiet as the eu2000i. And no sales tax in Oregon.

I would lift the 3000 in and out with the front end loader, same as I do the 5th wheel plate. But you could do it with a chain fall too.

delliott00 · Nov 28, 2006

FWIW, I used an eu2000i on my previous boat and it worked great. I knew all the risks, but went to extreme lengths to be safe, though. I had two CO detectors with digital readouts in the cabin, plus one in the cockpit, only used it on the swim platform when anchoring bow into the wind, and stored it and the gas safely (not in the bilge). It can be done safely, but a lot of people won't take those precautions, so it can be deadly.

I did notice that the amount of CO it put out was negligible on the detectors compared to running the engines at no wake speed. Most of the time the CO detectors never even got a whiff.

BTW, Honda DOES in fact market it for use in boating. If you look at the box is says "Great for RVs, Camping, Boating, Home" and has a picture of a boat using one. I'd say about half the sail boats at my marina have them.

So, my recommendation is..... Use it ONLY if you are extremely cautious and take all the precautions. If not, then don't even buy it.

-Dave

thunderbird1 · Nov 28, 2006

delliott00 said:
I had two CO detectors with digital readouts in the cabin, plus one in the cockpit,

Do you recall where you found the digital-readout CO detector? I'd like to add something similar to my cockpit.

fwebster · Nov 28, 2006

In spite of the photo on the carton, Honda's manual says that use on land or a nearby dock with a cord run to the boat is ok, but they specifically say that use on or in a boat is not permitted.

So does the Coast Guard, Boat/US, ABYC, and probably your insurance company as well.

Honda Generator

charlieft

First Born

chuck1

fwebster

charlieft

Dave S

jrcinnh

lorenbennett

out-n-aboat

charlieft

Sea Ray 300

out-n-aboat

Dave M.

Sundancer

Dave M.

Sundancer

Dave M.

delliott00

thunderbird1

fwebster

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