Well, I'm still in search of a 40 sedan. A few offers are out. After speaking with some people I am reconsidering gas engines in this boat. Obviously cruise & top speed will be reduced and gph will be increased. Maintanence should also be reduced along with the potential for big $$ engine work. I tend to put under 40 hours a season currently on my boat. What are the opinions out there and what kind of cruise speeds and gph be expected with 7.4L Mercs
40 Sedan Bridge with Gas Motors
dbriceno
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12 Posts
- Location
- Long Island Sound
Well, I'm still in search of a 40 sedan. A few offers are out. After speaking with some people I am reconsidering gas engines in this boat. Obviously cruise & top speed will be reduced and gph will be increased. Maintanence should also be reduced along with the potential for big $$ engine work. I tend to put under 40 hours a season currently on my boat. What are the opinions out there and what kind of cruise speeds and gph be expected with 7.4L Mercs
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690 Posts
If you only use it for 40 hours per season than the fuel isn't an issue and the money you save by buying gas engines will certainly make up for it. When you try to sell the boat that is when it becomes an issue same one your faced with now.
If you like the boat and want to keep it for the long haul who cares , it's a floating condo!
hope taht helped
If you like the boat and want to keep it for the long haul who cares , it's a floating condo!
hope taht helped
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993 Posts
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- Live California; Boat West Coast
One of the biggest advantages to diesels (in my opinion) is the close quarters handling, nothing compares. I took my buddy for a ride this past weekend, he has a gas 7.4 merc 380 aft cabin. It is now for sale and he is looking at diesels, seriously. Unless you are on a lake with no wind, I would not own this boat with gas.
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1,953 Posts
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- LONG ISLAND SOUND
This boat is going to move a lot in the wind while docking with gas. I think bow thrusters would be a neccessity. Having said that, with only 40 hrs. per year....maybe it makes some sense . But if you get the ittch to go to NYC or martha's vinyard or the like and do more cruising, you won't because of fuel costs. (that's what I see with my friends who have large gas boats. Ric
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221 Posts
- Location
- long island
I often wonder if you took a life span of lets say 12 years, which boat is cheaper to own. A gas or a diesel. I know there are many variables. Distance traveled , price of fuel, initial purchase price. So here is how I see it. A diesel will get anywhere between 10 to 40% better miles per gallon and diesel is usually a little cheaper. I figured on my boat this would save me $1,500.00 per season. That’s a good thing. Also my boat would cruise faster and would perform better around the dock. I will also admit my type of boat 370da just feels better with diesels. But I asking what is cheaper to own and use.
The days of diesels lasting thousands of hours is very questionable. Diesels these days are small cu/in and put out a lot of power. I see way too many diesel boats with new engines installed. When things wrong you are in for really big bucks and long down time.
If you own a gaser like me 7.4’s You can probable figure on heads at around 800 hours. And new blocks at 1400-1800 hours. That’s as bad as it gets. For $5,000 you got a complete reman engine. I like the knowing my engines are easily replaced in just a few days and hell if you have to just put on a credit card and go boating. All other components on both engines need standard repair or replacement { pumps, manifolds, filters, etc. } . Parts for my engine are everywhere even ebay.
If you pop a diesel your going to be making a lot of phone calls.
Your going to pay heavy up front for a diesel boat but you will get a lot of it back when you sell and selling is going to be quicker. Also when you get around 22,000 lbs a gas engine just might not be a good match up.
I would love to own a diesel boat but if I’m paying $50,000.00 more I want power that is bullet proof and little to no headaches. I just don’t see that any more. IF you take the same boat one with gas and one with diesel my feeling is in 12 years you spent less to run the gas boat. I’m sure the diesel owners will have something to say about this.
The days of diesels lasting thousands of hours is very questionable. Diesels these days are small cu/in and put out a lot of power. I see way too many diesel boats with new engines installed. When things wrong you are in for really big bucks and long down time.
If you own a gaser like me 7.4’s You can probable figure on heads at around 800 hours. And new blocks at 1400-1800 hours. That’s as bad as it gets. For $5,000 you got a complete reman engine. I like the knowing my engines are easily replaced in just a few days and hell if you have to just put on a credit card and go boating. All other components on both engines need standard repair or replacement { pumps, manifolds, filters, etc. } . Parts for my engine are everywhere even ebay.
If you pop a diesel your going to be making a lot of phone calls.
Your going to pay heavy up front for a diesel boat but you will get a lot of it back when you sell and selling is going to be quicker. Also when you get around 22,000 lbs a gas engine just might not be a good match up.
I would love to own a diesel boat but if I’m paying $50,000.00 more I want power that is bullet proof and little to no headaches. I just don’t see that any more. IF you take the same boat one with gas and one with diesel my feeling is in 12 years you spent less to run the gas boat. I’m sure the diesel owners will have something to say about this.
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3,551 Posts
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- Anacortes Washington
We have twin 454 at 6 knots they burn 1 gallon a knot that is 3GPH each at 17 knots they burn 22GPH each. We put on 300 hours a year. For the 3 to 4 months we are out it works out to $100 a day for fuel. Most of the time we go 1200 RPM that is 6 knots in rough water we go 1800 RPM 8 to 9 knots and burn 6 GPH per engine. If you want to go fast and burn little fuel get a car. Boats burn fuel and there is no way around it unless you get a sail boat. A single engine toler that goes 6 knots will burn 3 to 4 GPH so I have been told.
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2,165 Posts
- Location
- Chesapeake Bay
There are many pros and cons to this debate. Regardless of where you net out on the appropriateness of gas engines for your application, just be sure that you buy in to the boat at a significant discount to an oil burner.
Personally, I think that boat is beyond the diesel-required threshold, but that's for me and how I boat. Even if you are OK with the gas engines and it makes sense for you and your situation, you will still need to realize that a gas powered boat is simply not worth as much as a diesel powered one. This feels good when you buy the boat, and bad when you sell it.
Bottom line: if you're OK with the gas engines, given the stated caveats, just make sure you get a smokin' deal on it or you will take a beating when you sell it. If you buy and cheap, then you are no worse off.
Personally, I think that boat is beyond the diesel-required threshold, but that's for me and how I boat. Even if you are OK with the gas engines and it makes sense for you and your situation, you will still need to realize that a gas powered boat is simply not worth as much as a diesel powered one. This feels good when you buy the boat, and bad when you sell it.
Bottom line: if you're OK with the gas engines, given the stated caveats, just make sure you get a smokin' deal on it or you will take a beating when you sell it. If you buy and cheap, then you are no worse off.
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44 Posts
- Location
- Memphis, TN
I dont no were the guy got the imfo on gaser heads need to be replace at 1500hr my god man i know boaters who have 15k hrs on motors and purr like a cat and for my self i own diesel and gas motors that have 8000k and we work them 6 days a week if you take care of them last a long but you got to run them . Not runing makes them soft.
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2,063 Posts
- Location
- New Buffalo Michigan
Heres another way to look at it from a resale standpoint...
Somebody bought that boat brand new with those gas engines didn't they? Chances are somebody will be looking for one with gassers at some point again right?
Personally I believe there is an exception to the "Diesel is better rule" at least from experience on another 370 Carver just like mine. I have 680 hours running my 370 since brand new and I have done some very intense logging as to how much fuel I use. When I was buying I ran a cummins powered version of my boat, to be honest I was expecting to never want to get on board the gas boat again.
This was completely the opposite, my boat takes off like a racecar and JUMPS on plane with the 454 Crusaders and believe me or not but I can top this 21K boat out at 34 Mph (GPS verifiied) The cummins boat was quieter but topped out at 22 mph and cruised at 18 mph vs my cruise of 23/24 mph not to mention the boat was almost sluggish getting on plane with the diesels. I will give the diesels the head up on dockside torque, but who wouldn't?
For some numbers, my fuel usage at 3300 rpm (23 mph) is right at .85-.89 mpg. vs. the diesel version at 1.1 mpg cruising 18 mph.
So in everybody's opinion here which was the better buy, not to mention a 65K price difference new for new ?
I chose the speed with slightly less fuel economy and much cheaper rebuilds if ever needed. With only putting 680 hours on this boat since new I just couldn't justify the fuel savings vs. upfront cost and sacrificing speed. Maybe I have a factory freak?
As far as a 400 DB, I have never run a gas version but I have run all three diesel versions and been pretty impressed but for 40 hours a year I have to believe you could steal a gas powered boat and be just as happy!
Somebody bought that boat brand new with those gas engines didn't they? Chances are somebody will be looking for one with gassers at some point again right?
Personally I believe there is an exception to the "Diesel is better rule" at least from experience on another 370 Carver just like mine. I have 680 hours running my 370 since brand new and I have done some very intense logging as to how much fuel I use. When I was buying I ran a cummins powered version of my boat, to be honest I was expecting to never want to get on board the gas boat again.
This was completely the opposite, my boat takes off like a racecar and JUMPS on plane with the 454 Crusaders and believe me or not but I can top this 21K boat out at 34 Mph (GPS verifiied) The cummins boat was quieter but topped out at 22 mph and cruised at 18 mph vs my cruise of 23/24 mph not to mention the boat was almost sluggish getting on plane with the diesels. I will give the diesels the head up on dockside torque, but who wouldn't?
For some numbers, my fuel usage at 3300 rpm (23 mph) is right at .85-.89 mpg. vs. the diesel version at 1.1 mpg cruising 18 mph.
So in everybody's opinion here which was the better buy, not to mention a 65K price difference new for new ?
I chose the speed with slightly less fuel economy and much cheaper rebuilds if ever needed. With only putting 680 hours on this boat since new I just couldn't justify the fuel savings vs. upfront cost and sacrificing speed. Maybe I have a factory freak?
As far as a 400 DB, I have never run a gas version but I have run all three diesel versions and been pretty impressed but for 40 hours a year I have to believe you could steal a gas powered boat and be just as happy!
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619 Posts
- Location
- Western Lake Superior
We just bought our 96' 400 Sedan Bridge in Sept, 2009... 454 gas fuel injected ..We brought her home via the Great Lakes 833 miles, 3600 RPM and got .6 mpg...
She came out of the water just fine...On Lake Superior we were in 7'-9' ..the boat did fine we would run up the one side and at the tops of the big ones would be at about 15 mph and then run down the other side at up to 28 mph..
So far we have 38 hours on the boat....and paid 75k
We are now into a total remodel of the boat removed all cabnets which are being Refaced, new carpet, new everthing in side I will post Pic's in the coming weeks...
So all in all you can get a lot of boat right now..with gasers and still have money to bring it up to date!! Good luck in your search!!! Todd
She came out of the water just fine...On Lake Superior we were in 7'-9' ..the boat did fine we would run up the one side and at the tops of the big ones would be at about 15 mph and then run down the other side at up to 28 mph..
So far we have 38 hours on the boat....and paid 75k
We are now into a total remodel of the boat removed all cabnets which are being Refaced, new carpet, new everthing in side I will post Pic's in the coming weeks...
So all in all you can get a lot of boat right now..with gasers and still have money to bring it up to date!! Good luck in your search!!! Todd
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2,165 Posts
- Location
- Chesapeake Bay
Now that's what I'm talking about...
That is a ton of boat for $75K!
Well done.
That is a ton of boat for $75K!
Well done.
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690 Posts
:smt038rossevelt that is a hell of a boat for $75K good going!!
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12 Posts
- Location
- Long Island Sound
75K Wow! That's an awesome price. What was the condition of the interior? Were there any electronics included? What avg cruise speed do you get?
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619 Posts
- Location
- Western Lake Superior
Interior was in fair to good shape no holes or rips just little dirty..and dated
Boat over all was in good shape..Brand new canvas..
Brand new Garmin 4212 with flow scans..Very cool..and 48 mile Radar and a Garmin 3210
Avg cruise was 22-24 mph..
When I went looking for this boat I said I would NOT buy a 96' (because of the white cabnets) and I would NOT buy one with gas...Well I got one with white interior and gas ...and to top it off with a lower helm..
Everthing is being redone.....Cherry cabnets (Refaced) new counter tops all new mirrors and framing ..I painted all the interior door trim from the oak to cream... and all new Fabric.
I all so removed the lower helm. I will putting in a L shaped couch and table like the new 44' Sedan bridge:grin: and 2 new barrel chairs to starboard and to port incliners side by side from Flexsteel...All done in Ultraleather...Think I can't wait till spring....
Boat over all was in good shape..Brand new canvas..
Brand new Garmin 4212 with flow scans..Very cool..and 48 mile Radar and a Garmin 3210
Avg cruise was 22-24 mph..
When I went looking for this boat I said I would NOT buy a 96' (because of the white cabnets) and I would NOT buy one with gas...Well I got one with white interior and gas ...and to top it off with a lower helm..
Everthing is being redone.....Cherry cabnets (Refaced) new counter tops all new mirrors and framing ..I painted all the interior door trim from the oak to cream... and all new Fabric.
I all so removed the lower helm. I will putting in a L shaped couch and table like the new 44' Sedan bridge:grin: and 2 new barrel chairs to starboard and to port incliners side by side from Flexsteel...All done in Ultraleather...Think I can't wait till spring....
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12 Posts
- Location
- Long Island Sound
It's funny, I said the same thing. No white cabinets and only diesels. How much is it to reface everything in cherry?
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197 Posts
- Location
- Sarnia, Ontario
We started looking for a 400 DA with diesels but in the end got one with the 7.4's. Sure, it is worth less but we paid less to start with and we only figure to run it about 50 hrs per year. We seem to be getting around 1 mpg at 20 knots (3000 rpm) - don'y have fuel flow meter so its an estimate. I guess if we were planning to head down the ICW or something we would re-evaluate that decision but for the way we cruise the gas engines still make some sense. We would never recover the extra cost of diesels in the fuel savings.
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619 Posts
- Location
- Western Lake Superior
I pulled all cabnets and doors off the boat..removed all hardware and sanded the face with 80 grit and brought them to our local shop...I will have under $3400.00 that is with all new satin knobs and door handles..
Counter tops resurfaced about $800.00
All the fabric redone $750.00
Carpet?? don't know yet...
Couch and chairs and Incliners about $6000.00
I also bought a new Microwave and stove....(ebay of course)
This has been a big job!! I have Tons of hours into this...but will be well worth it in the end ...
I should have under 12K when done....
I plan on having 95% done by the time she goes back in the water at the end of April..
Counter tops resurfaced about $800.00
All the fabric redone $750.00
Carpet?? don't know yet...
Couch and chairs and Incliners about $6000.00
I also bought a new Microwave and stove....(ebay of course)
This has been a big job!! I have Tons of hours into this...but will be well worth it in the end ...
I should have under 12K when done....
I plan on having 95% done by the time she goes back in the water at the end of April..
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4,883 Posts
- Location
- MidAtlantic
I have no actual experience with a 400DA with gas motors, but I have plenty of experience having owned two 330DAs w/7.4s and a 380DA w/8.1s. I also have many hours traveling with neighbors who each have a (Other popular brands inserted here) 36 express and 37 aft cabin..... both with 7.4s.
NEVER have they or myself even 'averaged' 1mpg....assuming you are talking Statute miles....would be even less in Nautical miles. Forget about that mileage at cruise speed.
I even have a hard time seeing a 400DA w/7.4s make 20 knots (23MPH) at only 3000 RPMs.
But heh....like I said, I have no personal experience with that model with those motors.....more power to ya!!!!
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266 Posts
- Location
- Seattle
Would love to see some pictures (before and after) of your upgrades. I had planned to buy a new boat but ended up with a 2003 360 just recently, and have some ideas about future upgrades (primarily electronics and flat screen TVs to begin with) and am very interested in seeing projects done by others. Sounds like you made a great deal and are going to have a fantastic "like new" boat in the spring.
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4,024 Posts
I wondered about those figures as well Glen. I don't think our boats can achieve 1 MPG above hull speed...
At 3000 RPM, I'm somewhere in the mid-teens. My best cruise is 3500 which is usually a respectable 24 knots.
I have friends/neighbors with gas 400DB's. One has a thruster, one doesn't. Once you learn a few tricks, these boats can be handled quite well in close quarters, but of course not as easily as a diesel.
They cruise a few knots slower and burn more fuel than I do, but are generally happy with their boats. (the thruster guy is actually a former diesel owner - he logs very few hours each year and wanted more boat and less maintenance)
At 3000 RPM, I'm somewhere in the mid-teens. My best cruise is 3500 which is usually a respectable 24 knots.
I have friends/neighbors with gas 400DB's. One has a thruster, one doesn't. Once you learn a few tricks, these boats can be handled quite well in close quarters, but of course not as easily as a diesel.
They cruise a few knots slower and burn more fuel than I do, but are generally happy with their boats. (the thruster guy is actually a former diesel owner - he logs very few hours each year and wanted more boat and less maintenance)
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