Your wake and your responsibilities...

[Pseudomind]

I agree with that. Unfortunately, there is no law against being a jackass. There would be a few congressmen in jail if that were the case.

I get yelled at all the time for my wake... and it's not by marinas or swamping boats in close quarters in a channel - I pretty much come off plane all the time for that. But I have run into small metal jon boats with 4+ people on them miles from shore and they'll yell at me on a handheld radio that I'm responsible for my wake. Give me a break. What the hell are they doing out there to begin with? What if the wind kicked up? Going to sue God? I have ocean going tugs yell at me because of my wake... it's stupid.

My point on the wake is not to defend some ass waking a marina with a 90 foot boat, but if you are taking a small boat out in open water that big boats travel in all the time on plane, don't expect to change the dynamics of the area. That would be like going to NY harbor and hanging out in a jon boat. You'll die. (that place is a mess).

I agree, and if you do not like wakes, never be near a submarine base inlet, when they come in, it is topside full speed, and they are not going to slow down for anything.

 

[AKBASSKING]

Good post Jack and I agree you did the right thing. Sometimes the only thing to do is to loose it because that is the only thing some of these idiots understands. Buy the Admiral some roses and wine and you might get a smile!

 

[Four Suns]

I agree, and if you do not like wakes, never be near a submarine base inlet, when they come in, it is topside full speed, and they are not going to slow down for anything.

We are near a sub base (Norfolk)...

 

[fwebster]

Gary,

You are really talking about 2 completely different things......wake damage you cause and enforcement of no wake zones.

While you may think it is stupid, and whether you like it or not, you are responsible for any damage your wake causes, period.......even miles off shore to the jon boat.

Enforcement of no wake zones is a local matter and to be an enforceable no wake zone, the local municipality or county must designate the area in question then provide the enforcement. That means, don't expect the USCG to enforce a local no wake zone in your marina. If you want to request enforcement then call the local sheriff or water cops. The USCG will, however, enforce the negligent vessel operation provisions of the Rules of The Road and that could involve wakes.

 

[Woody]

Gary,

You are really talking about 2 completely different things......wake damage you cause and enforcement of no wake zones.

While you may think it is stupid, and whether you like it or not, you are responsible for any damage your wake causes, period.......even miles off shore to the jon boat.

Enforcement of no wake zones is a local matter and to be an enforceable no wake zone, the local municipality or county must designate the area in question then provide the enforcement. That means, don't expect the USCG to enforce a local no wake zone in your marina. If you want to request enforcement then call the local sheriff or water cops. The USCG will, however, enforce the negligent vessel operation provisions of the Rules of The Road and that could involve wakes.

It just doesn't seem that it can be that cut and dried. I would think that the jon boat miles off shore is expected to be prepared for normal conditions he might encounter. Might he be guilty of negligence if capsized by a large wave or wake rather than the ship that creates the wake.

10. What are the regulations concerning wake effects, wake damage, and responsibility? Regarding one's wake, vessels over 1600 Gross Tons are specifically required by Title 33 CFR 164.11 to set the vessel's speed with consideration for...the damage that might be caused by the vessel's wake. Further, there may be State or local laws which specifically address "wake" for the waters in question.

While vessels under 1600 GT are not specifically required to manage their speed in regards to wake, they are still required to operate in a prudent matter which does not endanger life, limb, or property (46 USC 2302). Nor do the Navigation Rules exonerate any vessel from the consequences of neglect (Rule 2), which, among other things, could be unsafe speeds (Rule 6), improper lookout (Rule 5), or completely ignoring your responsibilities as prescribed by the Navigation Rules.

As to whether or not a particular vessel is responsible for the damage it creates is a question of law and fact that is best left to the Courts. For more information, contact your local Marine Patrol or State Boating Law Administrator.

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=navRulesFAQ#0.3_7

 

[LennyD]

Gary,

You are really talking about 2 completely different things......wake damage you cause and enforcement of no wake zones.

While you may think it is stupid, and whether you like it or not, you are responsible for any damage your wake causes, period.......even miles off shore to the jon boat.

Enforcement of no wake zones is a local matter and to be an enforceable no wake zone, the local municipality or county must designate the area in question then provide the enforcement. That means, don't expect the USCG to enforce a local no wake zone in your marina. If you want to request enforcement then call the local sheriff or water cops. The USCG will, however, enforce the negligent vessel operation provisions of the Rules of The Road and that could involve wakes.

That seems to be accurate, but from reading previous case history on the results of attempts to collect on damages from wakes it is not as cut and dry as it seems.

It was more than a few years back but when this subject had come up previously a friend had tracked down the information. It was interesting because as I remember so many things were involved that I can not remember all of like the normal expectations of operating, sea conditions, seaworthy, look outs, preparations, intent, jurisdiction, and so many more.

One of things I did get out of it all is that maritime law is very different than what we are used to on land, and one of the only things that seem cross over is that having unlimited funds still has it's privileges :smt001

When I later tried to dig deeper online into just what to expect if an issue over wake responsibility should ever become personal in the future I found that "it depends" on so many factors that I decided it best to just up my insurance coverage lol.

Being my home boating area is one of the most congested or at least most congested with inexperienced, selfish, uncaring, and unknowing captains I more than familiar with both sides of the wake issue.

I am pretty sure most of us have seen our share of huge wakes being thrown by larger vessels captained by someone who just does not know how to properly trim or run their boat etc, but when you combine this with say 30 locals drifting for fluke or whatever in the channel it gets very interesting to say the least.

I know this is a bit different than the OP wake issue, but just like who is responsible for large wakes or waves in open water it seems when a unknowing or stubborn captain just throttles through those 30 fishermen while they are intentionally or unknowingly hampering or blocking his ability to maneuver within the channel I do not see anyone who is in the right, but rather just a whole lot of people who by their own fault or shortcomings are very much at fault for whatever should come their way.

Kind of have to compare this all to the captain of a 25 footer who while we were being towed by a commercial tower just felt the need to come along side while throttling down to a speed where he was just coming off plane (and holding that position BTW) to beep and wave to the tow operator/captain.

Did he miss the lights, the calls on the VHF, or the very obvious situation? I believe he didnt, but also did not have any idea what he was doing either. Then again I doubt the several other captains in much larger vessels who just continued at speed while also seeming to be somehow magically attracted to the tow boat as they drifted off course to within mere meters while we were attempting to attack the brindle. It is oh so much fun standing on your bow while being thrown 3-5 footers from people who are apparently intelligent enough to raise $300-500K for a nice 40ft+ boat but can not figure why they should not be drifting to within 50ft of such a situation.

My point is that no matter the rule of law there is a much stricter and less forgiving law involved here, and I would not be thinking of running a 90ft between displacement and planning speeds in a crowded situation any sooner than I would be expecting to passing wakes in the offshore shipping lanes with a 13ft whaler.

Now how to handle those guys blocking the channel, or someone like the guy giving Jack380 a hard time for no reason (got to really love it when someone feels they have to be responsible for reprimanding you lol) is more a personal issue than legal, well at least until some one gets seriously hurt or worse.

It's too bad with all the new regulations on training that there is still more captains who are seriously clueless than those who have taken the time to educate and train themselves.

Guess I will just write it off to be one more thing govt has screwed up royally.

 

[matthewmiller01]

Here is a big pet peeve of mine... Leaving my marina toward the main channel, after we are out of the no-wake zone, we go under a vehicle bridge. There are probably 6 or 7 legs holding up the bridge with only two lanes (one boat's width each) designated for boats (depth considerations). Isn't "no wake" speed the slowest speed capable while still maintaining steerage or am I confusing another term? I have a problem with the fisherman who fish under and near the bridge and get pissed off at me for SOME wake (NOT nearly full speed) when I go past them and under the bridge. I do slow down for them, but I don't come off plane as I want to be sure I am maintaining the best control of my boat while I go through the bridge opening. I DO put the safety of my passengers over the other boaters/fishermen, although I do not discount their safety completely. Your thoughts (and rules if there are any)? Am I in the wrong? :huh:

I agree, and if you do not like wakes, never be near a submarine base inlet, when they come in, it is topside full speed, and they are not going to slow down for anything.

I used to be on a sub. Not to be picky, but they rarely (at least not on the Trident I was on) go "topside full speed". It is very little gain (speed) vs. burnup of the reactor. But, as you said, they aren't going to slow down for much (realistically, it won't be anything except to avoid a collision or grounding). They maneuverability of the sub on the surface is extremely limited and they need the headway to keep as much of it as they can.

 

[annie]

Just on the plane is the speed that produces the biggest wake. The fishermen probably think you are doing it on purpose. Next time go through at WOT and see what sort of reaction you get? Lol.

 

[Pseudomind]

...I used to be on a sub. Not to be picky, but they rarely (at least not on the Trident I was on) go "topside full speed". It is very little gain (speed) vs. burnup of the reactor. But, as you said, they aren't going to slow down for much (realistically, it won't be anything except to avoid a collision or grounding). They maneuverability of the sub on the surface is extremely limited and they need the headway to keep as much of it as they can.

Okay maybe not actually top speed, :smt043 (I forgot they supposedly have some classified speed capability) ,but whatever speed they are doing, they are not going to slow down, and they will be throwing a wake usually, a pretty good size one at that. :huh:

 

[fwebster]

You are responsible for any damage your wake causes...period.

I didn't say it was easy to collect for damage or to even prove you were damaged. These are boats floating on a moving surface so some motion is normal and expected. Just because some battle wagon rocks you around a bit doesn't make you "damaged". The problem is that you don't know if some senior citizen or someone's wife is moving about or climbing down some ladder from the bridge when you wake them, and you don't know if some grand dad and his grandchildren are fishing in a jon boat on the other side of that bridge, so its best to pay attention to your wake and avoid the potential liability.

 

[Four Suns]

I do believe we have found another button of Frank's that can be pushed from time to time.

I bet he get's really upset when a Cummins-powered canboat with a flybridge driven by a tourist talking about Cat soft block issues wakes him.

 

[Alex F]

Just on the plane is the speed that produces the biggest wake. ....

The biggest wake you actually produce is when getting on plane or coming off plane. This is when you switch from planing speed to displacement speed and push a lot more water. It's very obvious on boats that equiped with SC and have the fuel usage set to "Instant". So, when you trolling and then push the throttles to get on plane, your SC will show you that you're burning .4-.5MPG during the planing time. As soon as you get on plane and trim the boat properly the number improves to usual .7-.8MPG. This is example from my 320DA, which had SC gauges. But, the basic principals apply to any boat, specially larger and heavier.

Based on observation, I think that a lot of captains don't know this and when they just slow down they don't realize that they make it slightly worst while thinking that they were nice enough to slow down.

 

[Turtlesboat]

NYC harbor must be exempt from wake laws. The whole harbor is one giant confused wake.

 

[Jack380AC]

Here is a big pet peeve of mine... Leaving my marina toward the main channel, after we are out of the no-wake zone, we go under a vehicle bridge. There are probably 6 or 7 legs holding up the bridge with only two lanes (one boat's width each) designated for boats (depth considerations). Isn't "no wake" speed the slowest speed capable while still maintaining steerage or am I confusing another term? I have a problem with the fisherman who fish under and near the bridge and get pissed off at me for SOME wake (NOT nearly full speed) when I go past them and under the bridge. I do slow down for them, but I don't come off plane as I want to be sure I am maintaining the best control of my boat while I go through the bridge opening. I DO put the safety of my passengers over the other boaters/fishermen, although I do not discount their safety completely. Your thoughts (and rules if there are any)? Am I in the wrong? :huh:

I think so but I'd really like to know as well. I always believed that you must come down off plane when going under a bridge and proceed at the slowest speed reasonable while maintaining control of the boat. It makes sense to me since visibility beyond the bridge is significantly impared.

IMHO common sense (no insult intened) and courtesy always make sense. I also often get a little frustrated when small boats anchor/drift in and around high trafic areas but I still back down or otherwise operate my boat to avoid sending wakes their way. I believe in sharing the water. I boat to enjoy myself and get away from the stress. Being "nice" is a whole lot less stressful and enjoyable.

 

[Four Suns]

NYC harbor must be exempt from wake laws. The whole harbor is one giant confused wake.

I will admit that being in that harbor just a few times is an experience... Going under the VZN bridge and entering the harbor is like being dropped into a Maytag washing mashing. There are 3+ foot wakes hitting you from every direction.

 

[Jack F]

This guy is proud of his wake. Pretty dangerous move.


[video=youtube;T9BxurQSBiE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9BxurQSBiE[/video]

 

[skibum]

What the heck was the guy driving that thinking? Looks like he came within 10-15' (or less) of all of those swimmers. He needed to be arrested for that brilliant move.

 

[beachcombersc]

A 22 year old women was killed with that stunt. And yes, it was reported as an attempt to wake them on purpose.

 

[Dave S]

NYC harbor must be exempt from wake laws. The whole harbor is one giant confused wake.

The same thing happens on small inland lakes on a busy day. Wakes of all sizes are coming at you from every direction and boats are bouncing around all over. On some weekends it is virtually impossible for me to travel at planing speeds without the boat taking a big pounding from all the slapping over those waves.