You are not going to like this...

[billnpat]

YOU ARE NOT GOING TO LIKE THIS...

At age 76 when you most need it, you are not eligible for cancer treatment
What Nancy Pelosi didn't want us to know until after the healthcare bill was passed.
Remember she said, "pass it and then read it!!." Here it is!
______________________________
Obama Care Highlighted by Page Number

THE CARE BILL HB 3200


JUDGE KITHIL IS THE 2ND OFFICIAL WHO HAS OUTLINED THESE PARTS OF THE CARE BILL.
Judge Kithil of Marble Falls, TX - highlighted the most egregious pages of HB3200

Please read this........ especially the reference to pages 58 & 59


JUDGE KITHIL wrote:

** Page 50/section 152: The bill will provide insurance to all non-U.S. residents, even if they are here illegally.

** Page 58 and 59: The government will have real-time access to an individual's bank account and will have the authority to make electronic fund transfers from those accounts.

** Page 65/section 164: The plan will be subsidized (by the government) for all union members, union retirees and for community organizations (such as the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now - ACORN).

** Page 203/line 14-15: The tax imposed under this section will not be treated as a tax. (How could anybody in their right mind come up with that?)

** Page 241 and 253: Doctors will all be paid the same regardless of specialty, and the government will set all doctors' fees.

** Page 272. section 1145: Cancer hospital will ration care according to the patient's age.

** Page 317 and 321: The government will impose a prohibition on hospital expansion; however, communities may petition for an exception.

** Page 425, line 4-12: The government mandates advance-care planning consultations. Those on Social Security will be required to attend an "end-of-life planning" seminar every five years. (Death counseling..)

** Page 429, line 13-25: The government will specify which doctors can write an end-of-life order.
HAD ENOUGH???? Judge Kithil then goes on to identify:

"Finally, it is specifically stated that this bill will not apply to members of Congress. Members of Congress are already exempt from the Social Security system, and have a well-funded private plan that covers their retirement needs. If they were on our Social Security plan, I believe they would find a very quick 'fix' to make the plan financially sound for their future."
- Honorable David Kithil of Marble Falls, Texas



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[Jay Gadsby]

... Nothing to say...

 

[comsnark]

How many minutes before this goes into the holding tank?

I am not saying HR3200 is a perfect bill. . . .or even a good bill. . . . .but I admit that it is fun reading stuff like this.

A few minutes with google turned up this: http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/twenty-six-lies-about-hr-3200/

Of interest:

** Page 425, line 4-12: The government mandates advance-care planning consultations. Those on Social Security will be required to attend an "end-of-life planning" seminar every five years. (Death counseling..)

The "death counselling" every five years is an expanded medicare benefit; not something you must attend. Subtle difference, to be sure.

* Page 58 and 59: The government will have real-time access to an individual's bank account and will have the authority to make electronic fund transfers from those accounts.

In the same way your electric company has access to your bank account.
Or. .if you prefer. . .you can pay by check.

 

[Banagy]

Rember the quote: "If you have insurance you can keep it."

 

[Woody]

Scary thought that a lot of people will think this is accurate info.

 

[MonacoMike]

How many minutes before this goes into the holding tank?

I am not saying HR3200 is a perfect bill. . . .or even a good bill. . . . .but I admit that it is fun reading stuff like this.

A few minutes with google turned up this: http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/twenty-six-lies-about-hr-3200/

Of interest:

The "death counselling" every five years is an expanded medicare benefit; not something you must attend. Subtle difference, to be sure.



In the same way your electric company has access to your bank account.
Or. .if you prefer. . .you can pay by check.

Ah, the world has been righted now, Com and I can go back to our corners after getting together to sing Kumbaya this afternoon.



It is funny right up until some unelected bureaucrat decides your wife can’t have cancer treatment for some reason. It is funny now with your interpretation, now, what will the interpretation be in 10-20 years. I get sick of mandates from the feds that are not in the lofty platitudes of the law passed by congress but in some bureaucrats head that is what is best for us. That is why “we have to pass the bill so you can find out what is in it” “we” wasn’t congress, it was bureaucrats.

Com, I hope you are not defending this pack of lies they called a bill. It is wrecking our health system while it crawls through the courts on its way to be ruled unconstitutional. Doctors are closing practices, hospitals are merging and insurance rates are rocketing up because it is not certain thiswill be struck down. None of this is easily reversed. We are spending billions on medical records computerization so government can know all about you. If Reagan had proposed this exact system to keep an eye on aids the left and civil liberties jokers would have gone nuts. Now they are doing it, go figure.

 

[floriduramax1]

Rember the quote: "If you have insurance you can keep it."

Along with the quote "your premiums will not go up"!!!! Well I can copy and paste the letter I have received twice in the last 18 months on why my premium has doubled since 2007!!!

 

[Bel_Mar_Pointe]

Yeah...my premiums went up almost 40% at the start of the year. Some blurb about "reform conformity", whatever that means.

 

[Nehalennia]

Why is this in "general discussion"? This crap belongs in the holding tank where it belongs.

 

[billnpat]

Why is this in "general discussion"? This crap belongs in the holding tank where it belongs.

I forgot about the holding tank.....:huh:

 

[Nehalennia]

I forgot about the holding tank.....:huh:

PM Chuck. He can move it unless he sees this sooner.

 

[billnpat]

PM Chuck. He can move it unless he sees this sooner.

OK,


Maybe he'll do it...

 

[CV-23]

No popcorn needed......pass the ammo, Mike.

 

[MonacoMike]

What is that smell?

 

[comsnark]

Ah. . that did not take long to go down to the toilet forum!!

Ah, the world has been righted now, Com and I can go back to our corners after getting together to sing Kumbaya this afternoon.

Well, it was nice while it lasted. But I have my Whiskey now. . so. . .OFF TO THE RACES!

It is funny right up until some unelected bureaucrat decides your wife can’t have cancer treatment for some reason.

. . .or that your cancer was a pre-existing condition. Or that your lifetime limit was reached. Opps. . sorry. When you were talking about "unelected bureaucrats, I thought the topic was HMO's. Funny how the market works.

It is funny now with your interpretation, now, what will the interpretation be in 10-20 years.

Interpetation, interpetation. It all depends on what your definition of the word "is" is. The section in the original article about "cancer reimbursement" was pretty specific in it's discussion of reimbursement varying because of the amount of research the institution performed.

I get sick of mandates from the feds that are not in the lofty platitudes of the law passed by congress but in some bureaucrats head that is what is best for us. That is why “we have to pass the bill so you can find out what is in it” “we” wasn’t congress, it was bureaucrats.

Com, I hope you are not defending this pack of lies they called a bill.

No. . .this is HORRIBLE legislation. A great example of how broken the entire legislative process is, and how incompetent the democrats are at governance. Of course, the only thing worse than the last Democratic congress appears to be the current Republican congress. My gosh. . they do seem determined to drive the country into default.

THANK GOODNESS FOR GRIDLOCK.

If you read my posts from two-three years ago, I was actually hoping for congressional gridlock in this timeframe.

It is wrecking our health system while it crawls through the courts on its way to be ruled unconstitutional. Doctors are closing practices, hospitals are merging and insurance rates are rocketing up because it is not certain thiswill be struck down. None of this is easily reversed.

You mean we were not seeing double digit medical inflation before this bill was passed?

You actually thought the health system was in good shape before all this went down?

You mean the Medicare cuts proposed by this legislation are more than what the Republicans (who opposed Medicare cuts in the last election) are now proposing?

You seriously think that insurance rates are not going up simply because they can use this as an excuse? I think the real problem is that we don't have Health Insurance speculators. :grin: If we did. . I am sure the market would be *much* smoother :grin:

Accurate or not, we had this shoved down our throats when a clear majority in this country did not want it.

Scott, Scott, Scott. We have been over this before. A good (over 20% fraction) of those opposed were opposed because *it didn't go far enough*. The unpopularity is from both the right *and* the left.

It needs to be rolled back now before the real disaster starts. It does not even come close to reducing health care costs, and in fact, has caused rates to increase.

There are "health cares costs" and then there are "health care insurance rates". The two are related, with the difference being free market profitability of publically traded companies. The controversial parts do not relate to cost containment, but rather universal coverage for both healthy people and the really sick.

Companies, when faced with the prospect of providing insurance or paying a penatly, will most likely pay the penalty, as it is less $$, and therefore leave the employee with no health insurance, forcing the individual on the government's plan.

Well. . .what I heard is that NOBODY is going to be first to dump employee health coverage. . but EVERYBODY is going to be second. All that is missing is a catalyst to make it happen. You KNOW every fortune 500 company in the country is looking for an excuse to dump employee coverage.

I fully agree with you (Gasp! Shock!) that this bill is likely the excuse to make that happen.

BTW: Is the alternative a "government plan"? I thought that part was rejected. I thought the alternative was a government subsidy for a private plan (i.e. pretty much what the Republican party proposed for Medicare)

We were sold a bill of lies and mis-statements.

Oh my gosh. . . I think we agree again. Of course. . it's not just the goobermint lying. It's also everyone selling headlines to boost ad revenue.

- - - - -

Have a nice evening everyone. I enjoy sparring with you.

 

[MonacoMike]

Com, there was nothing wrong with HMO's if you got what you purchased. The trouble was a 3rd party purchased,but the beneficiary complained to benevolent politicians that they wanted HMO's out. Then the politicians rid the world of the injustice to get the votes of the recipients of their largess.

The whole problem is most Americans believe someone should pay for their health and medical needs. How else could they afford boats, vacations, and other fun stuff. The brilliant writer Walter Williams tells of a hypothetical grocery store all paid by someone else. Why would one ever eat anything but steak and lobster, if I buy your lunch I pick what we spend.

Health insurance costs are rising for a few reasons: technology, mandates, and malpractice insurance. Technology keeps getting better, our current system of care has brought about the greatest increases in life expectancy in history. The politicians constantly mandated that many extras HAD to be covered, every year they add new features to cover, they didn't have to pay for it. Malpractice insurance and tort reform go hand in hand with doctor shortages and cost. If I tragically lose my wife all the money in the world won't replace her, but if they awarded me the money it would bankrupt the world. People have such a disconnect, the insurance to pay these awards is collected in the charges paid by other consumers, it never comes from the personal funds of the negligent. They usually skate on.

Well my whiskey is gone, see ya, MM

 

[comsnark]

I must still be drunk to respond to this.

Com, there was nothing wrong with HMO's if you got what you purchased. The trouble was a 3rd party purchased,but the beneficiary complained to benevolent politicians that they wanted HMO's out. Then the politicians rid the world of the injustice to get the votes of the recipients of their largess.

"If you got what you purchased". Well now. . those are the magic words, are they not? The parts about not paying for cancer treatments was explicitedly stated in paragraph 17 of page 48 of the contact. Didn't you read it? Why would you buy insurance if you didn't know what was in it? Oh. . the competitor had an exclusion for your illness as well in paragraph 4, sub paragraph 7?


The problems with HMO's wasn't the concept. It was when medical care began to be run like a business, as opposed to like a family.

The whole problem is most Americans believe someone should pay for their health and medical needs. How else could they afford boats, vacations, and other fun stuff. The brilliant writer Walter Williams tells of a hypothetical grocery store all paid by someone else. Why would one ever eat anything but steak and lobster, if I buy your lunch I pick what we spend.

Well, DUH.
That is the crux of the problem, is it not?

Of course EVERYONE wants to have medical costs "covered". And people are willing to pay an "affordable" price for "coverage". The problem is that unless healthy people are buying coverage, then *cost* of "coverage" is not affordable. So. How do you propose to have everyone buy coverage, even when they are healthy?

Health insurance, like car insurance, is very much a ponzi scheme. The "lucky" and "fortunate" pay for the "unlucky" and "unfortunate".

Hence the "unconstitutional" mandate for everyone to go buy health insurance.

. . .I guess there were two other alternatives.

One was to simply have a government insurance program, where everyone contributes via taxes (yikes!)
The other of course, was what I suppose what the conservatives wanted. . . . which was basically reduce taxes for capital gains. Health insurance? Who cares about medical care for those that can't afford insurance? Why can't everyone afford a $10,000 month premium? It is a choice of priorities.

Actually, there is another whole piece of this which is "medical insurance billing". The fact that those with insurance pay a different rate than those who do have insurance. I carry dental insurance simply because I could not afford my dentist's rates. I can easily pay cash what the insurance company pays, and would not need insurance. BUT if you add in the "writeoff" compononents. . yikes! yikes! yikes! Medicine is the same way.

Health insurance costs are rising for a few reasons: technology, mandates, and malpractice insurance. Technology keeps getting better, our current system of care has brought about the greatest increases in life expectancy in history. The politicians constantly mandated that many extras HAD to be covered, every year they add new features to cover, they didn't have to pay for it. Malpractice insurance and tort reform go hand in hand with doctor shortages and cost.

"mandates" - > by mandate, I suppose you mean the "pre-existing conditions" clause?

"mal practice insurance" -> yes. . . . .That is a problem. Think about it: Malpractice insurance is insurance. The company providing it probably has a book ratio of 30-50%. (i.e. overhead and profit account for 30-50% of premium costs). These premiums get passed onto the consumer, which is paying via insurance. The company providing the isnurance has a book ratio of 30-50% (i.e. overhead and profit account for 30-50% of premium costs). See what just happened here?
Not that there is anything wrong in making a profit. . afterall. . .that is the American way. This is why I invest in medical insurance companies.

And then you add lawyer's, who are out for a quick buck. Yup. All legitimate reasons why American health care is the most expensive on the planet.

Oh. . and because of insurance negotiated rates, the doctor's practice now needs a billing department to keep it all straight, and make sure bills are paid. And because the doctor's have billing departments, the insurance companies have billing departments.. . .and now we have a huge buerocratic overhead in place outside of the client-patient relationship. Which gets billed to the patiend. Which is paid by an insurance company which maintains a book ratio of 30-50%. (i.e. if they don't get a desired profitability -> they simply raise premiums).
Not that there is anything wrong in making a profit. . afterall. . .that is the American way. This is why I invest in medical insurance companies.